Urban Legend..bolt/slip ons no power gains?

[The Big Red One]

Since we now have a new bike in the mix and getting some of the same old questions, I wanted to play my own little version of mythbusters

The Urban Legend being passed down (mostly from non users) is that bolt/slip ons give no performance increase so no mapping is needed. Slips/bolts give an increase even with NO mapping....but just like a full system the increase is in proportion to the overall potential increase. In other words a full system unmapped puts out a more noticeable improvement than slips/bolts unmapped..and the full also puts out more than the slips/bolts when they're both mapped. But the slips/bolts DO put out a diff unmapped...and put out a substantial diff when properly mapped (especially with a free flowing airfilter). Buying slip/bolt-ons and a pc/good map plus filter is a very worthwhile gain for someone who doesn't want the hassle/cost of a full system, but wants to get more sound/better looks/less weight/more performance. I've tried several bolt/slip on systems and have gotten VERY good results. Well worth the money

 

[ks-waterbug]

Any dyno graphs showing the positive gain? I'm honestly someone who felt like slip-ons $ for $ weren't a viable option in the pursuit of performance. Not, disagreeing with your statement, on the contrary I'm very interested in the mean average. Would look for that to be roughly less then 2-3 HP and then that would require mapping. Can you eliminate the factory difference from this equation. I'm wondering if the gains seen are from squeezing the extra HP out of the factory spec bike using a custom map. In other words... Is the gain seen merely a result of tweaking a factory production bike (mass produced, with mass produced ECU map)for that particular bike, resulting in the HP gain your seeing... GREAT POST

 

[johnstein]

a decent set of bolt ons will cost about the same as a full system

i bought my 05 , ordered up two bros bolt ons cf at a cost of 9 n change
6 months later i decided i wanted the hmf high mount system , bought it for 950 , and sold my bolt ons for 350 ?

dont waste money on slip ons if you are concerned with hp , hp per dollar you are better off with a full system , you are going to do the same air filter, mapping anyway , might as well get 15 hp instead of 2 ?

kind of makes sense, now if you are only getting slip ons for sound they do the job and do it well!

heard a few reports that on the gen 2 bolt ons will give nothing in hp cause it is so blocked up with the new cats ?

 

[Gunnybusa]

Hey Big Red do you have any supporting data?

 

[The Big Red One]

KS..as usual great response..with very valid questions

I agree with you guys that for ultimate performance a full systems the ticket...I've done both.
But there are dyno charts all over the web from pipe makers, and on forums from folks like us showing diff gains for bolt/slips (you know how that goes tho lol ). Its also well documented with diff bikes that even a stock bike will respond with a few hp to a pc well mapped beyond the emmisions/sound restricted stock mapping. I haven't had mine dynoe'd cause I'm cheap, and don't want to trash my rear tire (plus I'm plenty happy with the gains now

) But I've noticed a BIG diff on several bikes with just some good tuning and/or a good map. Dyno work would prolly just polish things up even more. I agree with you...I suspect its a combo of cleaning up the stock mapping combined with better flow in and out of the bike. All I can say is its hard to understand till you've ridden..and had a bud ride...a bike before and after the mods, and felt the diff. From the much crisper, right now, front end up throttle response, to the much freer revving all the way through the rpm's...it feels like the bikes been geared down. From all I've read (which is alot

) and some shops feedback..along with my experience on a full system pc/mapped/filter same model bike next to the bolt-on pc/mapped/filter bike, that you get about half the increase of a full system. Although honestly it felt more like the bolt-ons were maybe 2/3rds of the full system. But that coulda been due to diffs in manufacturers..mapping ect. And yes full systems and bolt/slipons are close in price...but for those who don't want the hassle/can't do it themselves, or can't afford a shop to do the full system...giving up 5-6 hp on an already crazy fast bike might be an option to get better sound/less weight/no cats/less heat/better looks/more performance. I just hate seeing newbies ask about slips/bolts cause they can't afford/aren't confident, or aren't able to install, or have a shop install a full system, and then be told slips are a complete waste of time/money, and just deal with stock

When you can find used slips cheap..and combine that with a pc/filter/good map and have a ball its just not fair to these guys. I heard the same mantra years ago, but did my research and decided to try the slips route anyway...and like I said, best money I've spent on a bike yet

 

[johnstein]

i believe theres a tuner that will tell you straight up , you loose power with slip ons , they actualy hurt the performance of the bike.

 

[NINJA KILLER]

I KNOW ALOT OF PEOPLE RUNNING SLIP-ON'S AND THEY ARE HAVING NO PROBLEMS WITH PERFORMANCE AND THEY DO GAIN A COUPLE OF HP. IF YOU DON'T WANT TO WORRY ABOUT MORE POWER AND SAVE MONEY THEN YOU CAN'T BEAT THAT.

 

[kairles]

I have slip-ons and I can't say I gained or lost any power, then again one could say I baby my bike. I went with slip-ons for looks and sound, bike is plenty fast for me in its stock form.

 

[Mr Bogus]

I KNOW ALOT OF PEOPLE RUNNING SLIP-ON'S AND THEY ARE HAVING NO PROBLEMS WITH PERFORMANCE AND THEY DO GAIN A COUPLE OF HP. IF YOU DON'T WANT TO WORRY ABOUT MORE POWER AND SAVE MONEY THEN YOU CAN'T BEAT THAT.

indoor voice, indoor voice......

My slip-ons made me sound faster so there.... any real gain? doubt it..

 

[Johnnycheese]

slip on save 2# of weight + 2-3hp full system save20# of weight 1-15 hp
any questions???
and where is the data to proved this.

I can show you a stock busa with stock pipes mapped make more than any slip on

 

[SLEEPERBUSA]

 

[Cblast]

Bone stock my busa made 152 rwhp, with Akro slip-ons it made 162, with a full Akro Evo it is now making 170.

 

[LA Busa]

Ken Wheeler's dyno in Robbinsville NC showed mine at 147 stock.

With bolt ons (super sexy carbon fiber Yosh Tri Ovals) and a Power Commander it went to a whopping 155 after an hour of tuning it.

I'd say that bolt ons really just look and sound better and that I wasted money on the PC... BUT if I dont waste money on the bike at least once a month I turn into a pumpkin so whats worse?

 

[suzuki4life]

Ken Wheeler's dyno in Robbinsville NC showed mine at 147 stock.

With bolt ons (super sexy carbon fiber Yosh Tri Ovals) and a Power Commander it went to a whopping 155 after an hour of tuning it.

I'd say that bolt ons really just look and sound better and that I wasted money on the PC... BUT if I dont waste money on the bike at least once a month I turn into a pumpkin so whats worse?

if your bike made 147 hp stock, you had problems from the get go.

People don't say that bolt on are useless.....they say that they aren't cost effective in comparison to a full system.

Second...I am assuming you are saying you dyno'd the bike the same day and at the same place after the install.(if not your info is uselss) What was the difference in temps from the first reading to the second?

Temp and humidity will change your output more than your slip ons will.

 

[Professor]

Ken Wheeler's dyno in Robbinsville NC showed mine at 147 stock.

With bolt ons (super sexy carbon fiber Yosh Tri Ovals) and a Power Commander it went to a whopping 155 after an hour of tuning it.

I'd say that bolt ons really just look and sound better and that I wasted money on the PC... BUT if I dont waste money on the bike at least once a month I turn into a pumpkin so whats worse?

The only way to really tell what the slipons did would be to tune before they are installed. Install and tune again.

 

[Mr Bogus]

I think what you need is for one of the shops that owns a dyno to get involved.. You need the test bike, the stock cans and the after market cans and a few hours to fine tune the bike with each setup. A stock map is a "happy" average for all the bikes.

As no two motors will ever run the same, you can not expect the stock map to be perfect for every bike either. Get the bike fine tuned with the stock can and then the aftermarket cans...

I would be willing to bet that the stock cans work better than the aftermarket down low where we ride more often than not. Get the bike wound up and "maybe" the aftermarket cans will work better on the big end. Without someone willing to help with dyno time and expertise however, I do not think this argument is going to go either way..

Just too many variables and "seat of the pants" is not all that accurate.

Now if you had stock cans and a PC3 and had it fine tuned July, that is still not the same as the aftermarket cans, a PC3 and a fine tune in January.. This pretty much needs to happen same day, same bike same dyno to even be close to a real comparison IMO..

 

[johnstein]

slip on save 2# of weight + 2-3hp  full system save20# of weight 1-15 hp
any questions???
and where is the data to proved this.

I can show you a stock busa with stock pipes mapped make more than any slip on

Enough said !

Theres the tuner i spoke of !

 

[ks-waterbug]

slip on save 2# of weight + 2-3hp  full system save20# of weight 1-15 hp
any questions???
and where is the data to proved this.

I can show you a stock busa with stock pipes mapped make more than any slip on

Enough said !  

  Theres  the tuner i spoke of !

+1....

 

[Commuta_Busa]

I think the hardest part of proving/disproving a mith like this is that there is very little data showing a change of just the slip-on or just the air filter... most of he times people are doing more than one mod at a time between dyno tunes. But I agree that the actual fuel/ignition map tunning is a key factor no matter what mod engine mod you do to really reap the benefits.

 

[Dobieman]

Its not only about peak numbers either.
My ZZR1200 made within one hp and one pound of torque after a half system, jet kit and Dyno tuning. BUT the curves on both were much flatter and throttle response was much more noticeable. Dyno showed peak power increase was negligible but the bike revved faster and pulled the front up easier than before. No idle stumbles or flat spots afterwards. I guess what I am saying is the improvements may not always be reflected in peak numbers but in drivability in some cases. Depends on the motor and what the manufacturer had to do to it to pass EPA. Some motors run quite dirty at peak tuning levels and are detuned severely to pass smog tests. Other motors (designs) not so much.