Upgrading gen1 suspension.. what are my options?

[mysql]

I'm 220 lbs, and the stock suspension is super soft even after tightening it all up. My bike is a 2005.

I'm looking for cheap options...

According to this post, the gen2 rear shock works, but he specifically said 08-09, does that mean later models don't work?


For the front forks, I see that there are race tech valves for $161. Should I also be looking at springs too?


I'm not racing the bike or anything. I just want a better ride. Right now the front dives and it's all over the place. It appears to be setup for a rider who is 80 lbs.

 

[sixpack577]

08 to 14 are all the same, 13/14 have abs(only difference).
You need to do springs before valves.

 

[fallenarch]

Springs with the valves. No need in taking the thing apart multiple times. This is a pretty affordable mod and it will pretty much do the trick. Racetech is top notch, they will help you. The rear is a bigger issue. You can re-spring it but I heard this causes weird stuff in the damper. I think you can send that off to Racetech too and get it setup properly. You should spend the time/money to get this right. It will make the bike feel much safer, especially in the breaking.

 

[GIXERHP]

It come's down to the all mighty dollar, How much do you have to spend?
Your choices are the following
Springs and a rebuild
Springs and valves, and a rebuild--- now there are other options than Race Tech
Springs and complete Cartridges, and a rebuild
After market forks.
Now that is just the front, but the rear is about the same as the front as well as the pricing.

Now, are you capable of doing the work, or
Do you need a shop to do it?
Do you have a company close to you, that specializes in Suspension?
Many can do it, but can they do it correctly? If you choose wrong,, you pay twice out of pocket for labor.

Answers please,

 

[1busa]

I've upgraded the suspension on my Gen1 and it made a world of difference!! I went with Race Tech brand just because I was familiar with the brand from my motocross days and it's pretty affordable. No point in buying a gen2 shock.... the price you'll pay for that you can pretty much get a brand new spring from Race tech that is specific 4 your weight/weight of the bike.

If you are good with searching the web you can piece 2gether an entire front & rear setup pretty cheap. The gold valve kits for the front & rear can be found brand new on ebay or other bike websites. I wouldn't order those parts directly from the site as they are priced higher. Once you get the part#'s of everything that you need just search & compare prices to get the best deal. I did it this route vs ordering everything from 1 place and saved over $200!!!!

As far as installation I got lucky because there's is a dirt bike suspension shop in my hometown that took care of it 4me. So I didn't have 2 deal with shipping fees etc. I will say that even if you are mechanically inclined your gonna have 2 take your rear shock somewhere or ship it out 2 get the nitrogen in it refilled. Also your gonna have to order the shock adapter from Race Tech, I couldn't find that part 4 sale anywhere else. 4get how much I ended up spending total but it was far less than an Ohlins rear shock by itself. I'd eventually like 2 try Ohlins but I don't race or don track days with my busa and I figured I could spend the money elsewhere that could make more of a difference 4 a busa that I just have fun with on the street.

Full RaceTech setup is definitely worth the money and you will notice an immediate difference

 

[mjl3truck]

Define cheap? Best bang for the buck for me was to have a local shop named GP Suspension, rebuild my stuff on my Gen II. They use Race Tech parts and some parts of their own. It was a little less than $1000.00 to have the work done, parts and labor, which I believe is close to what Race Tech charges. I could tell the difference in the first ride out of the garage around the yard. The front end didn't bottom and clunk and the rear end didn't spank me. Like 1busa said it is not Ohlins, Penseke, WP or any high dollar name but for less than the price of one of their shocks you have both ends done and be pretty happy.

 

[mysql]

It come's down to the all mighty dollar, How much do you have to spend?
Your choices are the following
Springs and a rebuild
Springs and valves, and a rebuild--- now there are other options than Race Tech
Springs and complete Cartridges, and a rebuild
After market forks.
Now that is just the front, but the rear is about the same as the front as well as the pricing.

Now, are you capable of doing the work, or
Do you need a shop to do it?
Do you have a company close to you, that specializes in Suspension?
Many can do it, but can they do it correctly? If you choose wrong,, you pay twice out of pocket for labor.

Answers please,

I have a local guy here who did racing professionally. He now does it on his own. His costs are less than a dealer, so I like to bring him all the work I need done. He can do basically anything. He has installed emulators in my old SV, does my valve checks, manual chain tensioner, etc.

Right now, I don't have a real budget in mind, but it would be hard to justify dropping $2000 just to make the ride nicer.

I'm thinking race tech valves ($160) and springs ($100) in the oem forks, and then a gen2 rear shock ($75). Do I have any better options for about the similar money? I don't mind spending more if the bang for the buck is even greater. Should I get new springs for the gen2 shock? I wouldn't want it softer than the front.

I saw that this guy has a gen2 rear shock (ohlins) for sale at $900. But it would have to give me 10x improvement over the gen2 oem shock for me to want it...

 

[mysql]

hmmm, after looking around the race tech website, they say for my weight, the rear spring needed is higher than the stock shock, HOWEVER, the recommended value mirrors the OEM 08+ rear shock. So buying the 08+ for $75 would be cheaper than just the spring. So that answers that question.

Is it worth getting race tech valves for the rear while I'm at it?

 

[sixpack577]

hmmm, after looking around the race tech website, they say for my weight, the rear spring needed is higher than the stock shock, HOWEVER, the recommended value mirrors the OEM 08+ rear shock. So buying the 08+ for $75 would be cheaper than just the spring. So that answers that question.

Is it worth getting race tech valves for the rear while I'm at it?

Valves are worth doing, the only reason I said springs before valves is because you were trying to spend as little as possible.
You NEED springs to get correct sag at your weight, you don't NEED valves to accomplish that.

 

[fallenarch]

Depending on how you ride, suspension is more valuable than motor. It would be hard to use all the power a Gen II has on the road but you can use the suspension on every ride. This is not about a smoother ride. In fact my Ohlins are setup to be harder than stock. It's about controlling the wheels. The biggest gains you will get right off the bat with proper suspension is better breaking. Getting rid of the stock bike's dive makes for much more confidence in the power stops. Next is accuracy. The bike goes exactly where you want even under power. Fiinally the bike is much more difficult to unsettle. Ever go full power out of a turn, lift the front wheel, then shut down to setup for the next turn but have to wait for the bike to settle down before you can brake hard? Well with the onlins as soon as the front wheel is down you can do what you want, brake, trail brake, turn, etc. A few weeks ago I came around a turn and there were rocks in the road. It was clear I was going to hit one of them so I went to the smaller ones. when I hit them I felt the bike lift and roll over them, then settle down to the road again, then slide a bit while trying to hook up again, then regain traction. I was floored - it was as if I had my hand under the tire.

If there was one thing I would want right on a bike it would be suspension. Then brakes of course but suspension is #1.

 

[mysql]

Thanks for the input so far guys!

I just won the auction for the gen2 rear shock (from a 2012 with 2200 miles). It has the proper spring already in it, so I'll grab valves for it on Monday.

Will also buy valves and springs for the stock forks...

I did notice there are a bunch of different kinds of race tech valves available:

GOLD VALVE OVERVIEW

I assume TYPE 1 is what you guys are getting?



Edit: For rear shocks, race tech has this posted:

G3-LD Shock Gold Valve Kit - Next Generation Low Deflection SMGV S4005

G3-LD Gold Valves provide better control for any rider by creating more shim leverage and decreasing the angular shim deflection. The benefit is a more consistent damping and faster lap times (if you're racing, of course, we sould never encourage breaking the speed limit). Kit includes Shock Gold Valve Piston, Instructions, Valving Shims, Valving Charts and a "Technical Edge Shock Maintenance and Gold Valve Installation Video".

Same cost as the type 1.

 

[mysql]

My mechanic is a serious guy in the field - he's a real race mechanic who does a lot of work in suspension. He said the gold valves are not very good, and give you maybe 10% improvement, don't buy them. I didn't get to talk to him too in depth on what he's modifying, but I got this photo this morning. He said his changes will give me much greater improvement.

Doing straight gen2 swap on the rear shock. He didn't feel like it would be improved without dropping a lot more money, which would be better off spent directly on something like a Penske.

Also found steering head bearings were worn:

 

[Professor]

I found the Gen II shock/spring to be a big improvement on mine. New springs and a revalve in the front at the same time. I was closer to 235 when I did it. It really change the bike.

 

[Tufbusa]

Keith Code once wrote, "In order to conquer corners, first you must understand corners". This can also be translated into suspension. Before you purchase upgraded suspension, first you should understand suspension.

Springs are the workhorse of the suspension. Hydraulic valving simply controls how the spring"s energy is stored and released. In order to make proper choices in suspension products you should first decide what (If anything) you need, starting with spring weight. How do you do that? By properly adjusting your sag. How would I know what my sag numbers should be? If you don't know how much travel you have in your suspension, you wouldn't know what your sag numbers should be. If you don't know what your sag numbers are, how would you know if you needed a different weight spring? If you decided a heavier spring was necessary to reach your target sag numbers, how would you know if your OEM valving was sufficient to manage the heavier spring? What are the specific differences in your OEM valves and Gold valves? Do you believe the person selling a product and/or service who's livelihood depends on sales?

You should also be able to answer questions such as, if I couldn't adjust my OEM suspension what makes me think I can properly adjust Ohlin's suspension that is much more complicated? Which is more compliant in corners, softer suspension or stiffer suspension? Where in the suspension travel is my suspension most compliant.

Keep in mind that what you like in suspension feel may not be what your bike likes.

Nick Ienatsch wrote, "The aftermarket suspension industry has made a fortune off selling upgraded suspension to riders who didn't need it". I tend to agree!

 

[mysql]

 

[GIXERHP]

You will see a vast improvement for sure!

 

[mysql]

Got the bike back.

The ride is definitely harder than before. I can feel the road much more clearly. It wasn't too harsh, but I did ride over some roads with construction and hit some stuff that made the bike feel like I had smacked into a pothole and my front tire was flat. The rear shock from the gen2 ended up having some adjustments made, but it's mostly stock setup, and it absorbed the road nicely.

Besides the harder ride, I most noticed a change when doing hard front braking. In the stock setup, the entire front end dropped immediately. With the modified forks, it does go down, but not as much and not as quick. It's more like a smooth easing down. This should help keep the front tire loaded and help braking.

Finally, with the modified suspension, the bike is actually slightly taller than before, and that made the steering geometry change slightly. I first hopped on and noticed my normal inputs to turn were turning the bike more than I intended. It wants to turn more than it used to.

I'm pretty pleased, with it, but it will take some riding to break in the forks.

 

[fallenarch]

These are my idea of "good" suspension:

1. When the bike accelerates or decelerates, the bike is stable.
2. Front end dive during braking is progressive
3. The bike tracks where you aim it, especially when leaned over in a turn
4. The bike settles quickly after it is upset by a road condition, shift, or change in direction.
5. Good road feel. Good suspension does not make bumps disappear, it stops them from unsettling the bike.

I would be curious what others think about this. I think what Tuff is saying is you have to know what good suspension is to appreciate it, and I pretty much agree with that. When I first got mine upgraded I had it setup like an old Cadillac! Then I got it setup by a pro and started to realize a smooth ride is the least of the qualities of good suspension!

MySQL I remembered your bike when I saw the pictures above - that's one of my favorite Busa schemes ever. Looks really racy. Glad you are happy, nothing like good suspension to make riding harder fun!

 

[mysql]

You are describing my bike now, all 1-5 points.

I don't know that I'd have said 1 or 4 were bad in stock form though.

Thanks =) I'm going to see if I can take some new pics of the bike... but honestly I'm not sure if there is anything left to photograph since I've taken pics from all angles already.

 

[fallenarch]

Beautiful!