Trubo Questions - New to it all

[Kuhrazy]

I picked up a bike that had a turbo kit on it. It had been sitting for a while. I've finally torn it down, and this is what I've come up with.

Turbo: T3/T04E 57 trim, w/.63 A/R (Wastegate has 11lb spring)

Intake: looks man-made, nothing like I've ever seen before. Creepy almost. It was water to air, but the cooling lines were more than 1" in diameter, and heavily braided. It had the BOV attached to it. and a 2.5" charge pipe leading into a 2" intake opening.

The heat exchanger was mounted under the tail section between the rear passenger pegs (which I'm pretty sure didn't do anything for cooling at all) The water pump was nicely located under the gas thank, and is the largest I've ever seen. (almost looks like a aquarium pump.)

Engine mods:

APE 1/2" studs
Base spacer .080" thickness
MSD Aftermarket external fuel pump (mounted to frame)
Rising rate fuel pressure regulator
s2000 injectors
scavage pump (Was located higher than turbo, and I think backflowed into turbo after being shut off)
New shift forks, with shafts
Transmission is undercut

Bazzaz tuner, with fuel mapping sensor

Now that all in mind, I am in the process of getting a new plenum.

So onto my questions.

Is there such an issue of too low PSI on a turbo?

I don't wish to intercool just yet, as I don't want to push a wild amount of horsepower immediately, it will be an upgrade later (prob next winter) at that point, I will upgrade pistons, and rods as well.

Will 11lbs, on pump gas blow anything up if I can't lower the spring rating?

With the setup that is on there, roughly what HP would it put out on pump gas?

Is there anything that HAS to be added immediately before even trying to run it?

I can provide some photos of the monstrosity if you guys want a good laugh, but It's definitely turned into a head scratcher for me, just out of sure laziness of a personal build.

 

[black diamond busa]

Sorry I can't help but please post up some pictures.

 

[dadofthree]

Contact Richard http://rccturbos.com/ or Frank POWERHOUSE

 

[exabits]

Is there such an issue of too low PSI on a turbo?

This isn't really a proper question so it's hard to answer without knowing what you actually mean. I come up with 2 things when I read this, can a turbo be too small or can you cause engine problems with running low boost "psi".

Will 11lbs, on pump gas blow anything up if I can't lower the spring rating?

You will be fine since you have a .080 spacer, this lowers the compression of your engine. In my opinion you are at near max with setup on it. Has there been any head work done? valves, springs, port&polish?

With the setup that is on there, roughly what HP would it put out on pump gas?

With 93 octane and ~10psi boost, head work and good tune. 275-300hp

Is there anything that HAS to be added immediately before even trying to run it?

Everything seems in order to me, you can always buy more.... What I would really recommend is a good tuner and tune. Is there some reason you think there should be more? Did it not run well before you tore it down? Why fix what isn't broken?..unless you just plan to do some upgrading.

Pictures could tell a story..

 

[Kuhrazy]

This isn't really a proper question so it's hard to answer without knowing what you actually mean. I come up with 2 things when I read this, can a turbo be too small or can you cause engine problems with running low boost "psi".

I'm was originally worried that going with a lower pressure would result in an issues with the turbo. And on the other side, I figured without the intercooling, an 11lb spring might be too much for the engine.

You will be fine since you have a .080 spacer, this lowers the compression of your engine. In my opinion you are at near max with setup on it. Has there been any head work done? valves, springs, port&polish?

As of right now, there is no aftermarket headwork that I can find. I plan on doing some in the future, was hoping I could just get a few months of day to day driving out of it to get "used" to the turbo before I boosted it higher.

Everything seems in order to me, you can always buy more.... What I would really recommend is a good tuner and tune. Is there some reason you think there should be more? Did it not run well before you tore it down? Why fix what isn't broken?..unless you just plan to do some upgrading.

Only pictures can explain the disaster I found. SO here are a few of the nightmare I've been dealing with.

 

[OZBooster]

Not exactly a work of art like the RCC plenums, but it does look mostly functional
any working intercooler is better than none , seeing the inside of the intercooler to determine what sort of core was used would help judging its capability

personally if presented with that , i would get a better heat exchanger core, like a cut down radiator, or dirtbike radiator mounted in front of the radiator or in the ram air ducting , or if for race only think about a ice box , and find a smaller water pump, lots use the ford intercooler pump, Audi have a very compact one, or get something custom built for bikes from RCC

i would also get a boost controller and put a smaller spring in the wastegate , 6 psi or so and step it up from there , depending on how built the motor is 14-16 is not unreasonable

 

[POWERHOUSE]

Is there such an issue of too low PSI on a turbo?

Not really - most street turbo bikes cruise around a good portion of the time on no boost at all.
Usually the lowest wastegate spring you will see is around 3-4 pounds, which is what a lot of pro bikes will run. Keep in mind their boost controllers will typically take them up well over 25 pounds - I have seen guys run as much as 60. Your limit - without intercooling - is dependent on what fuel you are running. 93 octane pump fuel can be run at 8 pounds of boost with the proper tune - fuel and timing. That is probably a good place for you to start. Turbo sizing at this boost level will dictate rwhp - most Stage One turbos will make around 260-270 with stock compression, an .080" base spacer will most likely lower that number to 240-250. Again, how much cfm your turbo can muster can alter these numbers slightly.

Will 11lbs, on pump gas blow anything up if I can't lower the spring rating?

This depends on the efficiency of the water-to-air intercooler you have. I can't imagine that it cannot take 11 pounds of boost on pump fuel, it would have to be a real pos not to be able to handle that.

With the setup that is on there, roughly what HP would it put out on pump gas?

My guess with a small turbo would be 270-280 rear wheel. You are going to need to run 14-15 pounds of boost to see 300, IMO.

Is there anything that HAS to be added immediately before even trying to run it?[/QUOTE]

I would check that water pump and the flow through that exchanger, crank the motor over with the plugs out and make sure oil is getting to the turbo, and while you have the plugs out, put fresh ones in and gap them between .018-.020"

Good luck!

 

[Kuhrazy]

Okay,

but if I removed the intercooling option for the time being, and ran an 11lb spring... would anything blow? With the engine mods that are in there?

Or I have to have intercooling at this point?

 

[Lillblack]

Can we see a few more pics of the bike, turbo header, and the bazzaz?

 

[black diamond busa]

I would have to agree the air box isn't a work of art but I had something way worse pictured in my head after reading your first post

 

[RYC1966]

The welds look ok...if it fits and does not rub critical areas it may not flow the most efficient air etc...it looks like solid overkill materials / flanges / mating surfaces

 

[exabits]

Okay,

but if I removed the intercooling option for the time being, and ran an 11lb spring... would anything blow? With the engine mods that are in there?

Or I have to have intercooling at this point?

That's a hard question for anybody to give you a 100% answer on. It is not likely to blow with your current setup, as long as all fluids are circulating and bolts are tight. How you ride it is gonna be the biggest tell, having a heavy wrist is obviously gonna be more stress on the engine. If your light on the throttle and stay out of turbo boost, you don't have anything to worry about.

The pictures you provided are great. That plenum sure isn't a precision machined piece....bit of a monstrosity but it's function should be far superior to its looks. As Richard said, check your oil and water flow. Also, I would look more into weak links such as valve springs, oil pump gear rather then your current parts.

Anyway my final .02 is to ride that girl. She'll be fine for general street use. Take it easy on the throttle till you know what the tune is like.

 

[POWERHOUSE]

Okay,

but if I removed the intercooling option for the time being, and ran an 11lb spring... would anything blow? With the engine mods that are in there?

Or I have to have intercooling at this point?

WITHOUT intercooling, your limit is the fuel you are running. We don't like to go over 8 pounds of boost on 93 octane pump for a reason, and obviously there is a margin there. At 11 psi, you are past that margin on pump. And yes, with a good conservative tune - fat on fuel and timing pulled, you could ride it around a bit and stay out of the throttle hard. What good is a turbo bike that you can't use fully? IMO, you should get an 7-8 pound spring in the gate and get that thing tuned by someone who knows what they are doing and go have some fun . . .

 

[Kuhrazy]

I'm going to spend some time tonight, and try to get my hands on a heat exchanger. I can use the box, just have to cut those odd looking arms off it, and weld some normal size lines on it. Also, I'll upload pictures of the fuel line nightmare this guy had too...

I'll probably still step the spring down anyways, but if I can use the oddity I will, it has no leaks, and allows good air flow. Just looks like frankenstein.

 

[Kuhrazy]

Another question... How big of a resevoir should be used for this setup?

I mean the one included was the size of a nitrous bottle.

Must you really have that much?

 

[OZBooster]

On the couple i have built i don't use a reservoir like your talking about , but have a radiator cap in the plenum and tee the overflow to the bike radiator overflow so they share the reservoir

main thing on these water/air intercoolers is to not get an air lock in the plenum, they only work right if there full of water/coolant
mine flow in the bottom and out the top and the cap is at the highest point,
you could do the same with something like a vfr 800 radiator cap assembley , and there are others out there too, that just have a in and out hose barb and a cap fitting to put inline on your highest hose