Traction control on a Gen 1? Entrez Vous my fellow ORGanisms...




ogre

Call me Liberace!
Registered
Like the title says... I have an 05, and I'm planning on doing a race tech fork and shock upgrade since I'm on the heavier side. Now, while the bike was down, I've been toying with the idea of installing nitrous, one thing lead to another and I've found myself shopping for PNP Standalones. Long story short, for a progressive shot of nitrous with closed loop fueling, the megasquirt seems to be the ticket. For about $1000 USD, it's capable of a progressive shot of nitrous, as well as closed loop fueling by just adding a sensor (I have a full gen 2 Akro Ti setup with an O2 bung already there). $500 cheaper than the AEM, which won't do a progressive shot without an external controller, and 2500 cheaper than the MoTec, which lets be honest is way too much ECU for what I want/need. Come to find out the most recent revision of the Megasquirt 3 firmware includes vehicle speed sensor delta based traction control, so you can set the % of slip between the front and rear wheel that you feel is allowable, and the MS3 will trim timing to keep your wheel on the ground.

So here's where I need your help. I'm trying to figure out how the ABS on the GEN2 reads the wheel speeds. I'm guessing the rotors have some sort of hall effect sensor to judge wheel speed. The gen 1 obviously already has 1 sensor, so to add an additional sensor, I think I'll need a gen 2 fork with the ABS model brembo calipers and discs, and I can run a wire from the factory sensor to what I hope will be a user defineable pin going to the ECU, and BAM! Standalone, progressive nitrous control, 2 step launch limiter, and traction control, all from one box, and I only need to run a single wire. Plus I get brembos to haul this pig down from triple digits (on the race track of course). What can you Gen 2 nerds (subject matter experts) learn me?
 

sixpack577

Top Gun
Registered
And, IF that does work, you'll Need gen2 abs wheels as well, for the abs ring to bolt to. That is a seperate part from the rotors.
 

ogre

Call me Liberace!
Registered
Assuming it will work like you say it will, wouldn't you need to read wheel speed from the rear wheel for traction control?
so it gets vehicle speed from somewhere already, I'm not sure if that's a sensor in the transmission or on the rear wheel, I'm not currently co-located with the bike, so I can't check, but still, it's there somewhere, otherwise the oem speedo wouldn't work.

And, IF that does work, you'll Need gen2 abs wheels as well, for the abs ring to bolt to. That is a seperate part from the rotors.
OK, so that's some of that knowledge I needed and didn't have. I was under the impression that the ABS ring was embedded in one of the front brake discs. So yes, if it attaches to the wheel, I would also need a gen 2 front wheel as well.
 

Mr Brown

Registered
so it gets vehicle speed from somewhere already, I'm not sure if that's a sensor in the transmission or on the rear wheel, I'm not currently co-located with the bike, so I can't check, but still, it's there somewhere, otherwise the oem speedo wouldn't work.



OK, so that's some of that knowledge I needed and didn't have. I was under the impression that the ABS ring was embedded in one of the front brake discs. So yes, if it attaches to the wheel, I would also need a gen 2 front wheel as well.
The speed sensor is on or in the trans I believe, but the front wheel still doesn't help you. You need a method of measuring wheelspin vs speed at the rear for traction control. If the front wheel is in the air for example, it would see that as wheelspin.
 

sixpack577

Top Gun
Registered
The speed sensor is on or in the trans I believe, but the front wheel still doesn't help you. You need a method of measuring wheelspin vs speed at the rear for traction control. If the front wheel is in the air for example, it would see that as wheelspin.
+1
or at least be confused as the front wheel is slowing down and the rear maintaining speed or accelerating.
 

ogre

Call me Liberace!
Registered
The speed sensor is on or in the trans I believe, but the front wheel still doesn't help you. You need a method of measuring wheelspin vs speed at the rear for traction control. If the front wheel is in the air for example, it would see that as wheelspin.
Exactly, the traction control would be a method to keep the front wheel down as well. You can set up the ecu to enable or disable TC at the push of a button. so if you wanted to hoon, you could hoon.
 

Mr Brown

Registered
Exactly, the traction control would be a method to keep the front wheel down as well. You can set up the ecu to enable or disable TC at the push of a button. so if you wanted to hoon, you could hoon.
I get where you're going, but I still think you will have to have a way to measure how fast the rear wheel is turning. Traction control sees values from 2 or more sources, if the differences between those sources exceed the set parameters, it intervenes. Do you want that based on front or rear wheel speed? The speed sensor is not tied to the rear wheel, so if you were at anything other than stock gearing for example, it would see a discrepancy between front and rear wheel speeds and step in.
 

ogre

Call me Liberace!
Registered
You know, I can't answer that. I wonder if there's a way to correct the signal in the MS3. If anyone is reading this and has an ABS Gen 2, please take some close up photos of your front wheel, specifically how the tone ring (ABS ring) is attached to the front wheel.
 

Mr Brown

Registered
You know, I can't answer that. I wonder if there's a way to correct the signal in the MS3. If anyone is reading this and has an ABS Gen 2, please take some close up photos of your front wheel, specifically how the tone ring (ABS ring) is attached to the front wheel.
If there is a workaround I'm sure you'll find it....
 

ogre

Call me Liberace!
Registered
it appears you define the number of teeth in the reluctor and the size of the wheel. You can also define whether the speed sensor is for drive line, crank speed, wheel speed, etc. so there's some combination that'll make it work. Worst case you have to recalibrate it if you regear. And believe it or not, there's an app for that. You can tune it over Bluetooth with your phone. O what a world we live in, hahaha.
 

sixpack577

Top Gun
Registered
You know, I can't answer that. I wonder if there's a way to correct the signal in the MS3. If anyone is reading this and has an ABS Gen 2, please take some close up photos of your front wheel, specifically how the tone ring (ABS ring) is attached to the front wheel.
The ring just bolts to extra holes that are drilled and tapped into the hub.
Once c10 sees this, he'll answer most of your questions.
 

sixpack577

Top Gun
Registered
standing by for photos...
He must be working, otherwise he'd have seen the ping and posted already.
You can search his posts in the meantime, and look in the classifieds too, as he had abs parts for sale recently.
 

VIPER

Formerly known as viperblackbusa.
Registered
You for sure are going to need speed sensor on the front and rear. The 2 will need to be a certain % within each other or tc will kick in. The problem is the front will get light and lose some revolutions which will kill the power. On hard launches the front will leave the ground some, kicking in tc and killing your ets. Honestly ogre whats your golas here? Under hard launch wouldnt wheelie bars be more effective and not slice into your power?
 

ogre

Call me Liberace!
Registered
it's a street bike, I'd like to keep the front end down and make my fork seals last a bit longer, hahaha. Honestly, it started kind of as a thought exercise to kill time while I'm away from home, but looking at all the features that could be gained using a megasquirt, it seems like it'd be a worthwhile upgrade. A completely streetable 50 shot equipped 1397, without 5 extra little boxes teed into the harness. I hate piggyback tuners. It drives me nuts that Daniel put a PC3 on the bike when we'd discussed him doing an ECU tune after the motor build.
 

busakiller

Registered
1397 on a 50 shot and you want traction control. Really all you need is proper length, gearing and a tire. Something to ramp the nitrous in and you will be fine. Sounds like a lot of money and time wasted for a set up that can be done much simpler
 



Latest Bikes

Forum statistics

Threads
172,994
Messages
3,095,592
Members
47,739
Latest member
Busabrother09
Top