Track riders, your opinion please.




raydog

Enjoying 1 road at a time
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As a riding buddy recently told me, "your Busa is like a Swiss army knife, you designed it to do everything". I appreciate that observation, because it does play multiple roles (canyon bike, tourer, sport tourer, track bike, top speeder, dragbike, etc.).
SO, here's my question.....I now have a second set of tires/wheels/rotors dedicated to the track (Pilot Races mounted at this time). SHOULD I START RUNNING TIRE WARMERS?
It's usually quite warm/hot on my track days and I've gotten by with sunshine warming my tires and conservative 1st laps with the Pilot Races...then they are great track tires. So, should I pop for those warmers? They are about $300 a set.
Bless you all but please no commentary on "get a Gixxer 1000" or "Pilot Races suck". I'm not and they don't! Doyle

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BA BUSA

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If you are going to take that first lap or two at a more moderate pace...then you don't really need them. The two main advantages are the your tires are up to temp right away, and fewer heat cycles. If you were racing, yes get warmers...but how many track days a year are you going to do?

I don't use them, also don't have to drag around a generator, extension cord, gas for the generator...nor do I have to spend the extra time before and after each session to put them on and take them off. Also don't have to pack and repack all that extra stuff.
 

afterhours

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this is a convenience factor for you....is it worth the hassle of buying them,putting them on/taking them off and bringing a generator to power them....

i am an old racer, got started before tire warmers were standard equipment for the local racer. so i just take a lap to warm the tires and get them up to temp.
 

raydog

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That's good info Rich, my experience exactly. 2-3 track days a season is my frequency. The suspension guy (forgot his name) at R/F Raceway said that "treadwear on Pilot Races will occur at a faster rate than using up heat cycles on a given tire so don't worry about exhausting cycles prior to tread going away". In other words, most DOT track tires wear out their surface BEFORE loosing their heat cycling chemistry.
He was awesome on my suspension so I trust him....nevertheless, I would like to hear that statement from another credible source. Doyle
 

Takeuon

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If you are going to take that first lap or two at a more moderate pace...then you don't really need them. The two main advantages are the your tires are up to temp right away, and fewer heat cycles. If you were racing, yes get warmers...but how many track days a year are you going to do?

I don't use them, also don't have to drag around a generator, extension cord, gas for the generator...nor do I have to spend the extra time before and after each session to put them on and take them off. Also don't have to pack and repack all that extra stuff.
Exactly! When I was Road Racing in AMA & WERA, 99% of the time there was no easy access to an electrical outlet. Now I raced up & down the East Coast and the majority of the time it was warm or HOT! So these were of no use to me, as the tire temps came up very fast.
If your track days wil mostly be in the warmer summer months....I'd save your money.
 

b4thenite

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That's good info Rich, my experience exactly. 2-3 track days a season is my frequency. The suspension guy (forgot his name) at R/F Raceway said that "treadwear on Pilot Races will occur at a faster rate than using up heat cycles on a given tire so don't worry about exhausting cycles prior to tread going away". In other words, most DOT track tires wear out their surface BEFORE loosing their heat cycling chemistry.
He was awesome on my suspension so I trust him....nevertheless, I would like to hear that statement from another credible source. Doyle
Agree. If you would consider my opinion credible. Uh huh.
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gtrpimp76

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If you're on race DOT's and you take a couple of laps to warm them up, ambient temp is high, track temp is high, don't worry bout them.

I use them to mainly: a.) keep the tire AND the rims up to temp (helps create ACCURATE hot temp tire pressures, thus pressures are set before the 1st session of the day), (b.) be able to drag knees and elbows by the first corner, (c.) TO GO HARD ALL THE TIME OR DON'T GO AT ALL, and (D.) racing with WSMC and WERA :thumbsup: I don't make much money so every second of every session is VITAL for me. Trackdays are expensive as HELL, so I make sure I'm WOT the whole time.

I don't concern myself to much with heat cycling because Dave Moss from Catalyst Reaction Suspension said the same thing (I think that's who you're referring to right?). The useable tread WILL be gone WELL before the heat cycle chemistry is used up. Tige Daane (Dave Moss' business associate SoCal rep) said the same thing.

When it comes to the extra accessories needed to run them aren't that bad. Once you have a system in place, you use the exact same energy in transporting your leathers and helmet.

In a nutshell, it's really up to YOU, because once your tires are up to temp, there really is NO difference between a tire that has used warmers and a tire that didn't use warmers. Since you're only doing 2-3 TD's a year, not worth it. But....if you know you're gonna eventually be up to 10-20/year....well worth it.
 

raydog

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Good stuff Ryan, and everybody else, thanks to you all. Basically this'll save me $300 bucks and lugging my Geny around! Doyle
 

Lamb busa

50 warming to 70 again
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Are you fast enough and do you want to drag knee in corner 1? Lamb needs a lap or 2, depending on track size, to feel as though his tires are under him. Or maybe it's just he is getting old now and needs time to get up to speed. Great question Doyle. Maybe someone could let you use theirs once and see if it's for you.
 

raydog

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Are you fast enough and do you want to drag knee in corner 1? Lamb needs a lap or 2, depending on track size, to feel as though his tires are under him. Or maybe it's just he is getting old now and needs time to get up to speed. Great question Doyle. Maybe someone could let you use theirs once and see if it's for you.
I would borrow some....but when I offered to pay $50 just for one track day use, two different people have said simply, "NO". I guess once you pop for them you protect em and never loan em out! Hey Lamb, when RU going to post pics of your new paint job? Doyle
 

wardie

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Why not contact Michelin and ask them about heat cycles versus not using the warmers. A Busa isn't anything to fool with, if it's got a longer straightaway you'll hit higher speeds and then brake for your entry point I would want my tires warm enough to get as much grip as I can at those speeds. That's just me I ask lots of questions and make up my own mind. Good luck and have some safe fun! Wardie:beerchug:
 

Mr Bogus

Trouble Makers Inc.
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I would borrow some....but when I offered to pay $50 just for one track day use, two different people have said simply, "NO". I guess once you pop for them you protect em and never loan em out! Hey Lamb, when RU going to post pics of your new paint job? Doyle
considering they cost about $500 a pair now....
 

WWJD

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If you can afford them, why not? It will only help. If you run full out RACE tires - not street legal, they are reccomended.
 

BA BUSA

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Why not contact Michelin and ask them about heat cycles versus not using the warmers. A Busa isn't anything to fool with, if it's got a longer straightaway you'll hit higher speeds and then brake for your entry point I would want my tires warm enough to get as much grip as I can at those speeds. That's just me I ask lots of questions and make up my own mind. Good luck and have some safe fun! Wardie:beerchug:
Once you do a lap or two your tires are up to temp...after that it makes NO DIFFERENCE whether you started with warmers or not. Tires will be at the same temp during the session...the warmers eliminate the need for the "warm up" lap.
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Tufbusa

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That's good info Rich, my experience exactly. 2-3 track days a season is my frequency. The suspension guy (forgot his name) at R/F Raceway said that "treadwear on Pilot Races will occur at a faster rate than using up heat cycles on a given tire so don't worry about exhausting cycles prior to tread going away". In other words, most DOT track tires wear out their surface BEFORE loosing their heat cycling chemistry.
He was awesome on my suspension so I trust him....nevertheless, I would like to hear that statement from another credible source. Doyle

This post should be placed in the "STICKY" section as the best tip of the year.

When I share this info with people they look at me like I'm Loco! I got this info directly from Dunlop two years ago. Jim Allen told me heat cycles were a thing of the past since the tire would be long worn out before heat had any effect on the tire.

Also, I may add that scrubbing tires in is no longer a necessity since tire molds are now made with a teflon coating and does not require a release agent to be used on the tread. If you have doubts, go to a race day at the track and look at the number of racers with brand new, never touched the pavement before, tires. They make one hotlap (Which is many cases is full race pace) before the race begins and then it's balls to the wall from the get go.

While I would not recommend mounting your new PP's and dragging the case covers on the first turn but if you take a couple of laps to warm them up, they are as good as they will ever be!

:beerchug:
 

MPH 200

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I always use tire warmers, but I run slicks on the track & like to hit it hard right from the start. You can get a used set from the WERA or CMRA board for about $100-$150.
 

gtrpimp76

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Good stuff Ryan, and everybody else, thanks to you all. Basically this'll save me $300 bucks and lugging my Geny around! Doyle
Hey Doyle. PM your TD dates. If they're far enough apart from when I'll be doing my TD's, I can ship my warmers to you so you can try them. I guess the only thing you'd have to pay for is the shipping costs to get them back to me after you're done with them. What say you?

Charlesbusa tried mine last year at Willow when he ran the 002 race tires and he is a convert. Although I don't think he bought a pair-yet, but he did like the fact the his race tires were up to temp/speed right off the bat and didn't have to 'worry' about them breaking loose at T1.
 

gtrpimp76

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Once you do a lap or two your tires are up to temp...after that it makes NO DIFFERENCE whether you started with warmers or not. Tires will be at the same temp during the session...the warmers eliminate the need for the "warm up" lap.
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++1
 

gtrpimp76

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This post should be placed in the "STICKY" section as the best tip of the year.

When I share this info with people they look at me like I'm Loco! I got this info directly from Dunlop two years ago. Jim Allen told me heat cycles were a thing of the past since the tire would be long worn out before heat had any effect on the tire.

Also, I may add that scrubbing tires in is no longer a necessity since tire molds are now made with a teflon coating and does not require a release agent to be used on the tread. If you have doubts, go to a race day at the track and look at the number of racers with brand new, never touched the pavement before, tires. They make one hotlap (Which is many cases is full race pace) before the race begins and then it's balls to the wall from the get go.

While I would not recommend mounting your new PP's and dragging the case covers on the first turn but if you take a couple of laps to warm them up, they are as good as they will ever be!

:beerchug:
and +1
 

raydog

Enjoying 1 road at a time
Donating Member
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This post should be placed in the "STICKY" section as the best tip of the year.

When I share this info with people they look at me like I'm Loco! I got this info directly from Dunlop two years ago. Jim Allen told me heat cycles were a thing of the past since the tire would be long worn out before heat had any effect on the tire.

Also, I may add that scrubbing tires in is no longer a necessity since tire molds are now made with a teflon coating and does not require a release agent to be used on the tread. If you have doubts, go to a race day at the track and look at the number of racers with brand new, never touched the pavement before, tires. They make one hotlap (Which is many cases is full race pace) before the race begins and then it's balls to the wall from the get go.

While I would not recommend mounting your new PP's and dragging the case covers on the first turn but if you take a couple of laps to warm them up, they are as good as they will ever be!

:beerchug:
Thanks Steven, I love it when I say something right. Doyle
 



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