The Zimmerman case according to Florida law




Blanca BusaLess

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#1
There are several threads related to it already but each one and every post in them offers only opinion and speculation. I don't believe a single atty has posted in any of them? This article was written by a practicing Florida self defense atty. He is degreed and has tried several 'Stand your Ground' cases. Some here still want to look past the facts and base what they feel the outcome of the trial should be on their opinions instead. This should help you understand why an elected watchman would follow somebody. It has info related to the dispatcher and his authority. While the article is written with an pro Zimmerman it is factual.
One should also study Floridas statutes dealing with the use of deadly force and when one can use it. This would be section 790. I'm not posting it to disrespect anyone not start an arguement. I simply felt that this contained very good info written by once again a practicing atty with specific exp related to Stand your Ground and self defense here.

http://mobile.dillinghamlawfirm.com/?p=626#2841

I Am George Zimmerman (And So Are You)

By Christopher_Dillingham
22 June, 2013
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When the police don’t obey the law, then there is no law: Just a struggle for survival.

– Billy Jack

Here is what the Zimmerman case boils down to (in my personal and legal opinion):

An out-of-shape 28 year old man gets tired of crime in his neighborhood, so he joins his local Neighborhood Watch organization. He patrols around his neighborhood and calls the police whenever he sees something or someone he thinks is suspicious. It is what is expected of good neighbors, after all. Maybe he enjoys it, too. Is there something wrong with enjoying doing a civic duty? Likely not, unless you are doing something illegal yourself.

Yet Zimmerman wasn’t doing anything illegal. He was, though, carrying a 9 mm semi-automatic pistol. It was a basic, inexpensive model loaded with factory ammunition that is like most ammunition. It did not have death’s head “Punisher” grips, no notches were carved on it showing how many people he had killed, and there were no violent statements like “Smile For The Flash” engraved upon its barrel bushing. It was a simple and basic self defense firearm contained in a commonly used holster. Zimmerman had a valid concealed carry weapon (CCW) permit that the State of Florida had issued to him.

Zimmerman had just as much right as Martin to be almost anywhere in that subdivision. Maybe even more, since Zimmerman actually lived there and had the apparent authority to call the police for the common good if Zimmerman saw suspicious activity.

Martin didn’t live there. He may have been looking into cars that didn’t belong to him, had obscured his features by wearing a “hoodie,” and Martin apparently fled when Zimmerman started following him. That sounds suspicious to me. Most people don’t run away when they are being watched.

Of course, had Martin actually fled, there is no way the out-of-shape George Zimmerman could have caught him. Let’s call it what it was: Martin doubled-back on Zimmerman. Maybe Zimmerman pissed Martin off by following him. I get that. It might piss me off too if I was not doing anything wrong. It might piss me off if I was doing something wrong, too. Might Martin have done something wrong and thought Zimmerman witnessed it? We will never know.

Zimmerman likely thought Martin was a burglar. The fact that Martin had burglary tools on him at another time in Miami may or may not be admissible in court. Martin, though, aroused Zimmerman’s suspicion. In fact, that is the State’s contention: That Zimmerman thought Martin was acting suspiciously and pursued him.

So what? That’s not against the law.

Zimmerman called the police, and after losing sight of Martin, Zimmerman got out of his car to find out where Martin went. The police dispatcher, a person with absolutely no legal authority, told Zimmerman the police department “didn’t need [Zimmerman] to do that” (follow Martin).

Big deal.

The police cannot order people not to walk around in public except in very narrow circumstances that aren’t present in this case. If that was the case, then the police could have stopped Martin and questioned him for merely walking around in public. Does that happen? Yes. That does not make it legal, though. The courts drop such cases all the time. It’s called an illegal detention.

Furthermore, a police dispatcher is not a law enforcement officer any more than a taxi dispatcher is a taxi driver. Police dispatchers answer telephones and tell the cops where to go. That’s it. They are not sworn law enforcement officers, and they have no authority to enforce laws or order people to do anything. They are powerless people who generally have no training in the law. (I have seen injured police officers act as dispatchers, but that doesn’t change the outcome.)

Even a police officer could not have lawfully told Zimmerman to stay in his car .

Police officers only have the authority to enforce statutory law. What law had Zimmerman broken? Is there a law against reporting a suspicious person? Walking in public? Is it a crime to try to determine where a suspicious person fled after you called the police on him?

No.

And who exactly called the police?

It wasn’t Martin. Yet Martin had a cellular phone. He called his girlfriend and said someone was following him. She told him to “run.”

Why does someone run when he has done nothing wrong? Why not call the police instead of confronting Zimmerman? And if you do run, why double-back and attack the scary man? Unless, of course, you are not scared and are the aggressor.

Martin, instead, tricked Zimmerman by doubling-back on him. Then Martin punched Zimmerman in the nose, breaking it, knocking Zimmerman down, and then Martin began pounding Zimmerman’s head into concrete. That is deadly force by statutory definition. Not mine. Not yours. Not anyone else’s.

Here’s why:

Pound anyone’s skull into a hard surface hard enough and that person dies. Even minor impacts can affect cognitive function. It’s called “Mild Traumatic Brain Injury” (MTBI), and if you want to see its effects, talk to an NFL player or boxer who can barely string two words together in a coherent fashion. Then find a video of them when they were just starting out as young contenders. See the difference? They are MTBI personified.

Martin punched Zimmerman in the face, straddled him, and then pounded Zimmerman’s head into concrete. Zimmerman sustained a broken nose and a concussion.

Martin used deadly force against Zimmerman. The physical evidence, including photographs and doctors’ reports, all support those facts. End of story.

Or is it?

Zimmerman also states that Martin saw Zimmerman’s pistol and reached for it. I don’t know how you regard that action, but I advise you to never reach for a police officer’s gun, whether you are kidding around or not. I was a police officer, and each time that happened, my reaction was swift and violent, because when someone reaches for your pistol, it’s generally not to admire it. If it occurs in the course of a confrontation, one can safely assume it is to use that deadly weapon against you. Just trying to disarm an officer is considered deadly force.

No, Zimmerman was not a cop. That doesn’t matter. The same principle applies. Now, you may say, “Oh, but Chris, all we have is Zimmerman’s word that happened.”

Exactly.

Zimmerman’s narrative is the only one out there, and the physical evidence supports it. The witnesses’ statements support it.

No one but Zimmerman saw and heard everything, and even Zimmerman’s perceptions are shaded by his perceptions. It is, after all, very difficult to be perfectly accurate when you are scared and having your head smashed into concrete. We can expect Zimmerman’s narrative to contain inconsistencies and inaccuracies. That is why eyewitness testimony is so very often suspect: We are naught but limited creatures who don’t recall with perfect clarity–especially under stress. Lies and alibis are often spot-on perfect. The truth tends to be messy and confusing.

Likewise, the “Zimmerman was the initial aggressor and not entitled to use deadly force argument” is merely smoke and mirrors, and it’s legally untrue.

The term “initial aggressor” is not defined in FLA. STAT. 776.04. If one bothers to read the statute, though, one can clearly see that even initial aggressors have the right to use deadly force when “. . . Su ch force is so great that the person reasonably believes that he or she is in imminent danger of death or great bodily harm and that he or she has exhausted every reasonable means to escape such danger other than the use of force which is likely to cause death or great bodily harm to the assailant

Zimmerman had such a reasonable fear. There is no evidence suggesting he did not. Absolutely none. Zimmerman couldn’t escape, either: Martin was holding him down and bashing Zimmerman’s head into concrete.

The lethality clock was ticking. How many impacts does it take to induce MTBI? One? Two? Three? Keep in mind that one too many, even if it was just one, is still one too many. How many to kill him? Deadly force is deadly force. Zimmerman had no legal obligation to wait until his IQ dropped X number of points before he shot Martin. He had no obligation to wait until he was dying to shot Martin.

Martin forfeited his life when he used deadly force against Zimmerman.

Pay attention to this statement: Even if Zimmerman was the initial aggressor, then Zimmerman had the legal right to use deadly force when Martin escalated the confrontation to the deadly force level.

Zimmerman shot Martin once in the chest. I believe that one shot was justified. (Our self defense laws in Florida, incidentally, don’t allow warning shots. I don’t think Zimmerman had time for one anyway: Zimmerman reacted to at least two deadly force events. Had Zimmerman not shot Martin, Martin would likely be the one on trial for Zimmerman’s death.)

I’ve investigated several homicides and deadly force confrontations as a cop. In every case, things happened quickly and people recalled events poorly. In most cases, witnesses had only a partial view (physically and chronologically) of the event. Clear cut narratives are very rare and are usually suspect.

I’ve also been in a few deadly force encounters. One’s sense of time becomes distorted, adrenaline makes you feel weak despite the fact that you often perform superior feats of strength, and those events are incredibly stressful. A few made me puke afterward. It is not glorious and honorable: You are glad you lived. That’s it. I didn’t want those things t happen, and I certainly didn’t want to die. I did what had to be done.

Zimmerman lived. Now, the State is prosecuting him, and I believe it is doing so unfairly. It could happen to you or me just as easily. Let me provide you with an example:

A few years ago, my neighbors, who are an elderly and extremely frail Black couple, had their grandson living with them. The grandson was a troubled youth who had fistfights in their front yard, but he was still a nice kid. He had issues, that’s all. His friends seemed to have a lot more issues than he did. Bad crowd and all that.

One day, someone witnessed a teenage boy (whom no one had seen before) pull a screen off my neighbor’s back bedroom’s window and climb in. That teenager had been acting oddly, too, before doing that, so when he made entry into the house, that person called the police. It is, after all, what good neighbors do. Yes, the kid was Black. My neighborhood is a mixed one. We may even have a Martian (one dude is really out of this world). Rednecks and liberals peacefully co-exist. (If you ask me my race, it I think “pound puppy” would best describe me: My blonde hair, light skin, and green eyes obscure the fact that my maternal grandmother was likely half-Black). The musical cacophony on the weekends can be annoyingly confusing and diverse.

But back to the story . . .

It turned out that the kid was staying at my neighbor’s house and in that bedroom. He didn’t have a key. No one had every seen him before because he hadn’t been there long and usually came and went (you guessed it) by climbing in and out of that window.

What could go wrong, hmmm?

I take frequent walks in my subdivision during the evening. I hold a concealed carry weapons permit, and I’m almost always armed except where the law prohibits it. I’ve pissed off a lot of criminals–some have come to my home before looking for me–and I know what can happen in even the quietest of neighborhoods. I also meet clients in less than optimal settings, so I’m a cautious person. I don’t look for trouble, and if I see it coming, I get out of its way if possible and very quickly. I even leave shopping malls if I see a really strange person acting extremely oddly.

Yet if I see someone climbing into my neighbor’s home through a window, looking into cars, or otherwise raising my suspicions, then I’m calling the cops, and yes, to ensure he (or she) doesn’t get away, I may follow that person to tell the police where that person is going.

You’d probably do the same. People follow burglars, rapists, bank robbers, murderers, and other people suspected of wrongdoing all the time after calling the police. Often, police dispatchers encourage it (“Get a tag if you can, please!”) and often, they do not. In any event, it is immaterial what a dispatcher says. It simply does not matter one iota. Sometimes, those suspicions are valid. Sometimes they are not. I don’t know if Zimmerman’s were valid. Either does anyone else.

If you, like me, are strolling along your neighborhood one night, pondering the universe, and you see someone out-of-place and decide to take a closer look, then a confrontation might ensue. Tragedy could befall one or both of you if that confrontation escalates into a deadly force scenario.

If you, like me, don’t relish the thought of dying or being cognitively impaired because that suspicious person is pounding your head into concrete, you might use deadly force to protect your own brain and life. Someone could die because you decided to check things out.

Then you could be the next George Zimmerman.

I don’t think Zimmerman did anything illegal. I can quote the Florida statutes and case law decisions that support my opinion, but that might not matter to you, and it definitely won’t matter if you view this controversy through your own political biases, whether those biases are politically oriented to the left or right.

This case must not be about personal beliefs about guns (I don’t think everyone should own or possess them since most people can barely drive responsibly), racism, or anything else. It can only be about whether Zimmerman had a reasonable fear that he would sustain great bodily injury or death unless he used deadly force against Martin. If Zimmerman did have a reasonable fear of great bodily injury or death, then the jury must acquit him. If Zimmerman did not, then the jury must find him guilty.

That’s it. That’s all. Nothing else. End of story.

We cannot allow racial animosity and political gamesmanship to dictate results in these cases. We must view these cases through the lens of the law and nothing else.

Otherwise, we are all George Zimmerman.
 

rubbersidedown

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#3
7th line.

"Here is what the Zimmerman case boils down to (in my personal and legal opinion)"

Even your lawyer's opinion is personal Blanca. :laugh:

The first 2 paragraphs are devoted to use-less, un-needed tripe,that has no bearing on this case.:rofl: information: Zimmerman was out of shape. Zimmermans gun had no "tags" on it.

You keep blasting everyone for using hypothetical situations and personal opinion.... and this "ambulance chaser" is the best scientific evidence you could find.

if you and this lawyer were Zimmerman's defence team...the guy would already be in the gas chamber.:rofl:

There will be no changing your mind on most subjects...good for you. But you want everyone to follow your rules for the debate,with one exception...yourself.


You keep nagging on everyone not to post opinion,speculation,imagined scenarios...


Pull yer head outa yer ass and go read some of your own propaganda. Its full of opinion,speculation and imagined scenarios.

I love a good debate. But how is one possible when you keep spouting about the rules and then breaking them at will.

RSD.
 
#4
"Why does someone run when he has done nothing wrong?" cause he was about to get caught that's why. either breakn into someones car, garage or house like numerous others have done in the recent past in that particular neighborhood.

and ill bet martin was likely responsible for many of the previous thefts in that neighborhood (not all but im sure a few) but not on this day cause someone caught his ass snoopn around the neighborhood which is why he RAN away. then he decided to fight cause he knew he was caught (we all know he could have simply continued to outrun zimmerman) and when deciding to fight he begins smashing the neighborhood watch capt's head into the concrete and got shot as a result. this isnt rocket science.

martin gets caught ploting his crime, runs, decides to fight vs. continuing to run and gets killed for smashing someones head into the concrete when confronting zimmerman.

and for those of you that are too ignorant or stupid to figure this out on ur own when you smash someones head into the concrete repeatedly YOU are using deadly force against someone else and therefore deadly force may be used against YOU as well. like the attorney pointed out martin escalated this confrontation not zimmerman which is exactly why this little punk is now dead.

does martin call the police? no he calls his girlfriend....lmao! he doesnt call the police cause he knows dam well he was up to no good and the last person he would want responding into that neighborhood is the a police officer.
 

Blanca BusaLess

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#5
7th line.

"Here is what the Zimmerman case boils down to (in my personal and legal opinion)"

Even your lawyer's opinion is personal Blanca. :laugh:

The first 2 paragraphs are devoted to use-less, un-needed tripe,that has no bearing on this case.:rofl: information: Zimmerman was out of shape. Zimmermans gun had no "tags" on it.

You keep blasting everyone for using hypothetical situations and personal opinion.... and this "ambulance chaser" is the best scientific evidence you could find.

if you and this lawyer were Zimmerman's defence team...the guy would already be in the gas chamber.:rofl:

There will be no changing your mind on most subjects...good for you. But you want everyone to follow your rules for the debate,with one exception...yourself.


You keep nagging on everyone not to post opinion,speculation,imagined scenarios...


Pull yer head outa yer ass and go read some of your own propaganda. Its full of opinion,speculation and imagined scenarios.

I love a good debate. But how is one possible when you keep spouting about the rules and then breaking them at will.

RSD.

It is simply an article written by an atty experienced in the exact area related.
Of course it's his opinion and only another point of view but he backs it up with facts.
He's not my lawyer and I don't recall posting any rules. But in typical disregard you completely ignored what he wrote and wanted to redirect attn to me. Propaganda?
 

rubbersidedown

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#6
No, I read his tripe.

I was also pointing out that you constantly blast everyone about what you think qualifies as good debate tactics. Thats all.Then you post some lawyers krap opinion.

Opinion is fine...when it suits you and your needs. When its someone elses,you blast it.

But you wont even own up to that.

If you think I'm gonna sit and listen to you run down peoples opinions while we are supposed to sit quietly and listen to yours,yer dreamin'.

Game On.:laugh:

RSD.
 

VaBusa

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#7
You know what's really funny? That anyone should trust and believe a lawyer :rofl:

Next!! :p

via Samsung Galaxy SIII
 

Delgado

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#8
So according to Trayvon's friend during the phone interview and deposition, Trayvon was the one who approached the "cracker" and asked why he was following him and George responded with "what are you talking about". If George approached Trayvon, George would of had the first word I would think.

Not much of a star witness if you ask me.
 

Blanca BusaLess

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#9
No, I read his tripe.

I was also pointing out that you constantly blast everyone about what you think qualifies as good debate tactics. Thats all.Then you post some lawyers krap opinion.

Opinion is fine...when it suits you and your needs. When its someone elses,you blast it.

But you wont even own up to that.

If you think I'm gonna sit and listen to you run down peoples opinions while we are supposed to sit quietly and listen to yours,yer dreamin'.

Game On.:laugh:

RSD.
If you consider pointing out discrepancies in others opinions as blasting than guilty I am. I've run nobody down and I haven't insulted a single person. But instead of pointing out discrepancies in my opinion some have chosen to attack, insult or say they pity my kids which tells me that they really have no way to dispute what I say.
I see it more as trying to keep things on as straight a line as possible related to the truth. I've posted no imaginary scenarios anywhere.

And Vabs for the most part you're correct. I only posted this because he is more aware of the laws regarding this specific area we discuss.
 
#10
"Why does someone run when he has done nothing wrong?" cause he was about to get caught that's why.
So you KEEP saying, but about to get caught doing what? What precisely had he done to get caught? Let me tell you something...if someone without a badge is pursuing me I am going to do one of two things...fight or flight! We can argue this thing all day every day and it makes absolutely no difference. You and Blanca insist this is not a racial case, and I am telling you right here and now that, had Martin been white and wearing shorts and a polo shirt, this would NEVER have happened. Zimmerman did what he set out to do: He killed a black kid, he got famous, and between interview fees and book deals, he will never have to work again because of it! God bless America!!!
 

Delgado

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#11
So you KEEP saying, but about to get caught doing what? What precisely had he done to get caught? Let me tell you something...if someone without a badge is pursuing me I am going to do one of two things...fight or flight! We can argue this thing all day every day and it makes absolutely no difference. You and Blanca insist this is not a racial case, and I am telling you right here and now that, had Martin been white and wearing shorts and a polo shirt, this would NEVER have happened. Zimmerman did what he set out to do: He killed a black kid, he got famous, and between interview fees and book deals, he will never have to work again because of it! God bless America!!!

This has nothing to do with race. Its just a tactic that's being used because that's the only thing going for them. George, along with the 25 or so people in the program, were genuinely interested in keeping their community safe and if anything looked out of place it would of been reported. And why do you mention this wouldn't happen if it were a white person wearing shorts and a polo shirt? Why not be consistent and keep the clothing the same by saying "what if he were white wearing pants and a hoodie strolling around at night in the rain"? I can easily say this wouldn't of happened if it were a black male walking around in a suit and tie. This whole racial thing is complete BS.

Trayvon had the choice to fight or flight. Instead of going to his friend's house he decided to fight hence the self defense case we have going on now.
 

Blanca BusaLess

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#12
So you KEEP saying, but about to get caught doing what? What precisely had he done to get caught? Let me tell you something...if someone without a badge is pursuing me I am going to do one of two things...fight or flight! We can argue this thing all day every day and it makes absolutely no difference. You and Blanca insist this is not a racial case, and I am telling you right here and now that, had Martin been white and wearing shorts and a polo shirt, this would NEVER have happened. Zimmerman did what he set out to do: He killed a black kid, he got famous, and between interview fees and book deals, he will never have to work again because of it! God bless America!!!
Dallas I really am shocked you just posted and seem to believe Zimmerman set out that night to kill someone. You honestly think as he was putting on his pants, buttoning up his shirt, putting on his gun and walking out his door he was fantasizing about it and telling himself 'yep gonna kill me a black kid tonight'?
That's pretty messed up.
 
#13
So you KEEP saying, but about to get caught doing what? What precisely had he done to get caught? Let me tell you something...if someone without a badge is pursuing me I am going to do one of two things...fight or flight! We can argue this thing all day every day and it makes absolutely no difference. You and Blanca insist this is not a racial case, and I am telling you right here and now that, had Martin been white and wearing shorts and a polo shirt, this would NEVER have happened. Zimmerman did what he set out to do: He killed a black kid, he got famous, and between interview fees and book deals, he will never have to work again because of it! God bless America!!!
your right you would do (1) of (2) things which is fight or run. people who cant out run the person they are supposedly afraid of fight. we all know martin could smoke fat boy zimmerman in a running race so why not run to a neighborhood door or home for that matter or call the police? ill tell you why cause he was up to no good thats why.

and as far as it being a racial issue thats a tough one to say conclusively. the majority of criminals being arrested are either black or hispanic in south Florida so does focusing on a young black male between the ages of 18-25 in ur neighborhood who appears to be acting suspiciously to you as the neighborhood watch captain wearing a hoodie covering his face and then running when you ask him what he is doing mean that zimmerman was being a racist? hardly!

if martin had been white wearing a polo shirt do you think it is likely he would be committing a crime in a neighborhood? thats just not likely. not impossible but not likely. criminals tend to dress like crimianls and few criminals I have ever arrested for breaking into cars, garages, sheds, houses, etc... have been wearing a polo shirt nor have they been white. thats not a racist statement. that is a fact based on my own personal experience.

the FBI has a division dedicated specifically to profiling. Police departments from all over the world utilize their experience in solving crimes. that experience in solving crimes is based on criminal profiles that have been gathered and generated over many decades and those profiles often point to race, age, gender etc.... and these are professionals. zimmerman is a neighborhood watch captian and has limited time or resources to decide whether or not some strange male in his neighborhood is suspicious or not.

its the same when the police are out looking for stolen cars. the majority of stolen cars are stolen by black or hispanic males between the ages of 18-25. the police just as neighborhood watch people have to narrow their search down by one means or another. and race, age and sex always come into play when doing so. the word profiling gets a bad rap but the fact is profiling is based on REAL statistics from REAL criminals who have been caught.

is that racism or reality?
 

chrisjp

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#15
"Why does someone run when he has done nothing wrong?" cause he was about to get caught that's why. either breakn into someones car, garage or house like numerous others have done in the recent past in that particular neighborhood.

and ill bet martin was likely responsible for many of the previous thefts in that neighborhood (not all but im sure a few) but not on this day cause someone caught his ass snoopn around the neighborhood which is why he RAN away. then he decided to fight cause he knew he was caught (we all know he could have simply continued to outrun zimmerman) and when deciding to fight he begins smashing the neighborhood watch capt's head into the concrete and got shot as a result. this isnt rocket science.

martin gets caught ploting his crime, runs, decides to fight vs. continuing to run and gets killed for smashing someones head into the concrete when confronting zimmerman.

and for those of you that are too ignorant or stupid to figure this out on ur own when you smash someones head into the concrete repeatedly YOU are using deadly force against someone else and therefore deadly force may be used against YOU as well. like the attorney pointed out martin escalated this confrontation not zimmerman which is exactly why this little punk is now dead.

does martin call the police? no he calls his girlfriend....lmao! he doesnt call the police cause he knows dam well he was up to no good and the last person he would want responding into that neighborhood is the a police officer.

OMG...we agree on something.....:bowdown:
 

GoldenChild

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#16
"Why does someone run when he has done nothing wrong?" cause he was about to get caught that's why. either breakn into someones car, garage or house like numerous others have done in the recent past in that particular neighborhood.

What was he gonna get caught doing, maybe dropping a skittle on the ground or tripping and spilling his drink? :rofl: The person suspected of break ins had already been arrested...He was a visitor to the neighborhood and had only been there mere days so how would he have committed burglaries in the past in a place he never been? Wow guilty till proven innocent...You use to enforce the law, glad I never got spotted on your watch..

and ill bet martin was likely responsible for many of the previous thefts in that neighborhood (not all but im sure a few) but not on this day cause someone caught his ass snoopn around the neighborhood which is why he RAN away. then he decided to fight cause he knew he was caught (we all know he could have simply continued to outrun zimmerman) and when deciding to fight he begins smashing the neighborhood watch capt's head into the concrete and got shot as a result. this isnt rocket science.

martin gets caught ploting his crime, runs, decides to fight vs. continuing to run and gets killed for smashing someones head into the concrete when confronting zimmerman.

How are you assumed plotting walking from the store getting refreshments? guilty till proven innocent again...you should look yourself in the mirror and ask what really is your problem. It's more deep rooted than this case..

and for those of you that are too ignorant or stupid to figure this out on ur own when you smash someones head into the concrete repeatedly YOU are using deadly force against someone else and therefore deadly force may be used against YOU as well. like the attorney pointed out martin escalated this confrontation not zimmerman which is exactly why this little punk is now dead.

what proximity were you to the scene when confrontation happened?

does martin call the police? no he calls his girlfriend....lmao! he doesnt call the police cause he knows dam well he was up to no good and the last person he would want responding into that neighborhood is the a police officer.
He has the right to call who he likes, he's on a peaceful walk not some crusade to prosecute the innocent He calls the police and it's the lowest priority call, would you have shown up for him?
 

rubbersidedown

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#17
Five white women on the jury...:whistle: This thing has aquital written all over it.

They(the five) will lay such a verbal smackdown on the one non-white juror she wont be able to get a word in.:rofl:

Some say that race has no part in this debate or trial. Thats not how the world rolls. Not yet. A better future can be hoped for,progress has been made,but its still not an' equal playing field.

If Zimmerman was driving down the road and saw a black kid on one side and a white kid on the other.Who's Captain 'Hood Watch gonna question first?

5 black women on the jury... they'd already be measuring Zimmerman for a prison jumpsuit.:thumbsup:

Much as we don't want to admit it ladies and gentleman,race has everything to do with it...again.

One day perhaps it wont,but for right now,unfortunately it does.

BTW,I'm a white guy and I want Zimmerman to fry. Why? Because it was all his doing.You can't be an' intelligent person and think otherwise.All he had to do was his job. A job which doesn't involve playing policeman. A job everyone knows is to be non-confrontational for everyones well-being. A job where all he had to do was wait 5 minutes. A job.... wait a minute.... its not even a real fuggin' job. IT's A VOLUNTEER POSITION. Nobody is counting on him.He doesn't punch a time clock. He doesn't get police training. If Zimmerman isn't out "on patrol" the whole freakin' neighbourhood isn't going to die.


Problem this time.... Zimmerman was on patrol....and someone did die. You figure it out.

RSD.
 

Delgado

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#18
Its interesting that people feel this is racial simply because the shooter wasn't black. If you live in an area where all or most of the suspicious activity/people happen to be done by black people, that makes HIM a racist? So far, everyone that thinks this has something to do with color can only come up with what ifs, rhetorical statements and nothing objective to say. Also, both parties have a say in who gets chosen for the jury so I'm not sure what you're trying to get at.

Again, Trayvon could easily have gone home but chose to turn around and confront George. What's there to figure out?


Nobody is counting on him.
Last time I checked, there was a room full of concerned residents that were tired of the crime going on in their area who were counting on him.
 

rubbersidedown

BUSA-RIDIN'-BASTID
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#19
I guess the way I try and solve a problem is to look at the FIRST mistake made by either party.

If that FIRST mistake isn't made,then there would be no problem. Common sense right? Could we agree on that?

Everyone wants facts. O.K. then....

Zimmerman made the first mistake.Common sense and fact as both sides have stated.

If this first mistake wasn't made...no trial for Zimmerman...no street justice/death sentence for Martin.

And its not just an' opinion that race plays a part. Whenever an event happens and different races are involved guess what happens.

That card is eventually played in some form.


I guess the residents of this Florida community will be able to sleep better at night knowing folks like George Zimmerman are on patrol.
Good thing for them he didn't miss. STRAY bullets fired by non-proffesionals can have serious consequences.

Facts:

Everyone wants facts. Lets say the original poster only stated the facts. Would the thread then not be over? Nobody could then post anything.

And where would these facts come from? CNN FACTS usually differ from FOX NEWS FACTS.

The FACTS wont even come out in a court of law. Each side will present to the jury THEIR SIDE of the facts.

Both cant be right.

RSD.
 



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