That first car, your kids and you...




VaBusa

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#1
Honest opinions appreciated...hot topic in our house right now :banghead:

Between the two of us, we have 5 kids to guide through this crazy life, and we're trying to set in motion a specific plan for that first car. What we do/offer for the first one in line has to be feasible for the next 4 kids. Out of this has come the task of teaching responsibility, and what we see around us (well, what our kids see anyway) is a world filled with parents that give them pretty much everything, and make flimsy excuses for why they do it. Gone are the days of working for your first car, or even wanting to learn how to take care of that car. I know both Omar and I worked jobs through high school to get that bit of freedom we all waited for at the age of 16, and we both took care of whatever that first car was because we WORKED for it...it instilled in us a sense of accomplishment and the ethics of working for things you want and need. It's a valuable lesson that carries through your adult life.

I think our generation is full of parents that don't want their kids to have to do or want for anything. It's natural to want better for your kids than what you had, just as our parents tried to do for us. But, don't you feel like this generation, OUR generation, is making it so our kids won't 1) know how to care for themselves in this great big world and 2) won't have anything better to offer their own children one day? We're getting to the end of "we want better for our kids" because, IMHO, after this next generation, what's left to give?

I would love to know from the gang here, who believes in giving your kids everything they want or need over teaching them to earn it? Specifically, who here has given their kids that first car? I'm not out to bash anyone, but I want to know, honestly, if you do this to your children, what life skills do you think they're learning? ???
 

MO-BUSA

Poster formerly know as qrychefanus
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#2
my dad made me earn it, 200.00 dollar 69 volkswagen, that me and him transformed into a Baja, we did everything on it bodywork, motor, electrical etc... since hes a VW mechanic made it much easier also, but i had to work for everything. I tried to do the same for my daughter, but i caved in and gave her our kinda new focus for getting back and forth to college and home. But for the son im thinking he will have to work for the car for the most part, his grades will decide if i ever let him get his permit:laugh: and thats coming up in a year ughhhhh:banghead:
 

Tiller

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#3
I think it all depends on the situation

Myself... I am only 23 right now... I was given my first car at the age of 15 right before i turned 16 and got my license. I WANTED to drive so bad! My parents let me drive around the neighborhood since I was about 12. I WANTED to drive so bad that my 15th & 16th birthday were spent in the DMV getting my permit and license.

Here's here the give/work for comes in... My situation may be different than yours. I played baseball my entire life from age 4, and was really good at it. I was a varsity starter in high school as a Freshman and All-State team every year. Because I played sports, I did not have time to have a paying job, however, I WORKED every day after school at practice. I had a chance to play college baseball with a full ride scholarship.

I wound up taking my baseball talent into a full ride scholarship for four years of college and graudated cum laude with a business degree...

So was I "given" my first car? Yes.. actually my 1st 3 cars because they were pieces of junk :laugh:
Did I "work" for those cars that were given to me? You dang skippy I did.


In the end, I absolutely agree that kids should "work" for their first car; however, I dont believe that only includes a paying job that earns it :beerchug:
 

rubbersidedown

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#4
My daughter is 19 and still rides the bus. I dont think anything should be handed to kids,ESPECIALLY these days. The hand will be for ever at the outreached position.

You guys with 5...Scenario: Fisrt one gets a freebie.Then things get tough finacially and/or second in line doesn't get what he/she feels first one got.They could resent that 4ever. Kids also hate hand-me-downs of anykind ...usually.

Buying a vehicle that would last to the 5th kid is an' impossibilty IMHO,especially is the first one or two in-line are boys. Nuff said there.LOL

"you wanna work,you get a car" Sure,you and Big O can help,but keep it fair. Example: First kid makes 2000.oo,you guys chip in 2000.oo Second kid is too lazy to get job. You help him anyway...sends a real lousy message to the "worker". Third kid earns 5000.oo,you guys chip in 5 grand. Why,because it sends a message.Will the others be pi55ed off. Maybe,but too fuggin' bad. I'd let them sukk that one up to life/reality.

Sit down with all 5. Lay out the ground rules in writting,make sure each "soon to be spoiled brat"...just kiddin' girl...completely understands.:rulez:

just Rubb's opinion,good luck honey...yer gonna need it.:laugh:


RSD.
 

skydivr

Jumps from perfectly good Airplanes
Donating Member
#5
I really think it depends on the child Michelle. Does the kid do well in school, pay attention, respectful, etc? or does the kid have trouble with these. I think it's ok to reward good behavior, but sometimes this also makes a good reality check/teaching point for those that don't. Each child based on their own merits. I don't believe in making any promises or putting anything in writing, as things/situations change and you don't want your mouth to write checks your body can't cash.

I worked full time every summer from 16 on; part time from 14.. My parents bought my vehicle. I paid my operating costs. I wasn't trouble (much).

Of course my daughter is 12 and has me wrapped around her little finger, so I may be eating my words soon enough. Her mother and I are determined that her first car will be safe, mechanically sound, and decent enough, but NOT NEW UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES.

Edit: Tiller nails it. His parents priority was for him to get a good education, not out making a car payment. They may have paid a little up front, but it sure paid off in that free-ride, cum laude, independent and well made young man that they got out of the deal (don't let your head swell too much Jay, but I use you as an example to my nephew who I'd like to see more like you :)
 
#6
I'm right there with you Vabs. Melissa and I have 4. And we just got our 14-1/2 year old her first car. The others are 11, 2-1/2, and 6 months. The ONLY reason I got her a car now is because my mom has a 2005 Nissan Xtera that she wanted to get rid of. It blue books at around $5500 and she said I can have it for $2000 and she will takes 10 monthly payments of $200. Melissa and I agreed a while ago that we will buy them there 1st car if they get good grades in both middle and high school. They must have a job, pay there own insurance and gas. Plus help dear old dad work on it do they can learn how. My parents didn't buy me my first car but they matched me dollar for dollar on anything I saved.
 

GsxrBots

Motorboatin' Moonpies, Gangnam Style
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#7
I wasn't given anything in life. I believe I'm better because of that. I wash and wax my stuff rigorously because I know what it costs..

My motto is I'll give you $2,000 for a car, you want a better one, save your money. After that $2000 car dies, you are responsible to fix or replace it..

I'm NEVER going to give gas money either.

I can sort of agree with Tiller's point, but I did sports and a full time job basically in high school. I've had a job since age 12.
 

Tiller

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#8
I wasn't given anything in life. I believe I'm better because of that. I wash and wax my stuff rigorously because I know what it costs..

My motto is I'll give you $2,000 for a car, you want a better one, save your money. After that $2000 car dies, you are responsible to fix or replace it..

I'm NEVER going to give gas money either.

I can sort of agree with Tiller's point, but I did sports and a full time job basically in high school. I've had a job since age 12.
I did work in the summer's when school was not in. But I was also playing travel select ball during those summer's too

I agree with earning what you have. But I still think that kids should have "some" time to actually be a kid... I dont know how I feel about full-time work, plus school, plus sports
 

MO-BUSA

Poster formerly know as qrychefanus
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#10
well i guess if i look at it Tillers way i didnt really hand my daughter the car, she made straight A's and played comp softball and school ball, so in a since she worked for it, and she worked daycare in the summer at church. so my decision was easier to give her a car to use. Also having a older sibling that drives can make it easier on you for picking up the younger kids at a school functions and such that you cannot get to.
 

VaBusa

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#11
Tiller actually brings up an excellent point with sports taking somewhat of a priority, so I'm glad I asked the question because that's partly what's going on here. Let me preface all I say with this to Tiller - you were raised by 2 very responsible parents...I wish like hell I could say this current situation we're coping with had the same going on, but it doesn't :banghead:

At play here is the desire to gain a full college ride on soccer, so that's the main point being tossed around as a reason for not being able to get a job. When it was said that he could most likely find a job that worked around sports, the excuse became "Well, he won't have a social life". I believe there's always a way to show you are responsible and still be a kid. I truly believe that I grew up in the last generation that understands this is how life works, and we all managed to build great memories with friends, play sports, prep for college. We're not talking about a 40 hr a week job; just show some initiative in what you want in life...

Here's what we proposed for the first car 1) He earns 1/2 of what's needed for said car and Omar and his ex split the other half, or 2) We will offer up a reasonable loan with one stipulation - he has to have a job prior to getting the loan and pay us back monthly until the debt is satisfied. It's not about the money here, it's all about building some character and responsibility, and it's what I know my ex and I will offer up for our own sons. So far, since the offers were placed on the table, his son pretty much ignores Omar when asked for a plan, or details on this car he wants. What happened here is a car was found, he wants this car, he has an emotional attachment to it now, he fears he'll never find a better deal, Mom agrees, they are willing to pay more than this car is worth, etc, and no one thought about how to go about getting said car FIRST. "Oh, OK, let's give you a car!" is not on the list of options, and I think that's led to ill feelings. He's letting his Mom fight the battle with us (well, Omar, but it affects us as a couple and will affect the other 4 kids we have to think about), and he's pretty much removed himself from the situation when he doesn't realize he has a role in this and has full control over how this all ends. For me, it truly is about proving you'll be responsible, and so far he's not taking any steps toward that...

I worked all through high school, lost my weekends to making minimum wage just like most of my friends did. When my Dad saw me doing that, he offered to match whatever I'd saved up to get my first $800 '73 Pontiac Ventura, and I took damn good care of that POS because I had pride in what was mine. I know Omar worked hard for what he had, and he took care of it, paid for the fixes trying to set this precedent for all of our kids, nor do I think it's too much to ask for each one of them to have "some skin" in the deal (Omar's frequently used term lately). The unfortunate outcome in all of this will be for Omar - he'll be painted as the "Dad that refused to help" when the reality is we both just want all 5 of our kids to be responsible and we are willing to help, but each child has to meet us in the middle. I don't think that's a bad thing...
 
#12
I also have twin boys that are 19. One of them is a major screw up his mom let him do whatever whenever and he still doesn't even have a license because he won't get a job. The other one is a well behaved young man who recently graduated the prison guard academy. When he got his first truck I chipped in 40% and bought a bunch of parts to fix it up for him. He still has it 3 years later. I refuse to give my other son a nickel. He dropped out of school, has been in and out of jail, and does nothin but bum around.
 

VaBusa

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#13
I also have twin boys that are 19. One of them is a major screw up his mom let him do whatever whenever and he still doesn't even have a license because he won't get a job. The other one is a well behaved young man who recently graduated the prison guard academy. When he got his first truck I chipped in 40% and bought a bunch of parts to fix it up for him. He still has it 3 years later. I refuse to give my other son a nickel. He dropped out of school, has been in and out of jail, and does nothin but bum around.
Brings up a great point - I was listing off the people (family) I grew up around and who was always given a free pass in life vs. those of us that were responsible and rewarded for it...the difference in where our lives are is staggering. I have a home and pay my own bills, take care of my boys, others are living with Mom and Dad and will never ever grow up.

While I am complaining about very specific things in this thread, at the heart of it all is the simple fact that I see us, as a society, making kids in to useless sacks of poo, giving them the world, expecting nothing...it's a sad state of affairs if you ask me :banghead:
 

Twobrothersbusa

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#14
I guess you guys could talk to Mrs. Tiller to see how she felt about her end of the deal. She got a hand me down Trooper that served her for quite a few years. She was a straight A student who was very responsible.

We took a bit of a different approach when it came to money though. We wanted to teach the value of money at a young age, so at 14 we started paying our daughter an allowance that was not based on anything but her needs. Clothes, school expenses, (insurance when it came time), movies out, all the things we would normally cover. We pushed that down one level and put the budget on her plate. No asking for movie money or field trip money for band trips. She had chores around the house that she was required to do but they weren't tied to the money. She didn't have an out to say "you keep the money, I'm not doing it." The chores were her contribution to the household. You could ask her, but at 14 she thought she was rich. Those cost of living allowances as she got older probably put a dent in feeling rich though!

To share a it's not all roses story and show you what a good kid she was....she got my temperament which means we might raise our voices a bit when we disagree :) She and I were having a discussion in the drive way with her sitting in the car. She ended up storming off in the car and I gave it a couple of minutes and called her. She answered and I asked her to bring me my car back...she did. She did with some attitude, but she complied. There is a great parent lesson right there. Settle for compliance, don't force attitude. She was not happy! Remember, you think it sucks when you have to do something you don't like too!

I'm beyond blessed . Great wife, son, daughter and son in law...

Good luck Vabs!
 

Tiller

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#15
Tiller actually brings up an excellent point with sports taking somewhat of a priority, so I'm glad I asked the question because that's partly what's going on here. Let me preface all I say with this to Tiller - you were raised by 2 very responsible parents...I wish like hell I could say this current situation we're coping with had the same going on, but it doesn't :banghead:

At play here is the desire to gain a full college ride on soccer, so that's the main point being tossed around as a reason for not being able to get a job. When it was said that he could most likely find a job that worked around sports, the excuse became "Well, he won't have a social life". I believe there's always a way to show you are responsible and still be a kid. I truly believe that I grew up in the last generation that understands this is how life works, and we all managed to build great memories with friends, play sports, prep for college. We're not talking about a 40 hr a week job; just show some initiative in what you want in life...

Here's what we proposed for the first car 1) He earns 1/2 of what's needed for said car and Omar and his ex split the other half, or 2) We will offer up a reasonable loan with one stipulation - he has to have a job prior to getting the loan and pay us back monthly until the debt is satisfied. It's not about the money here, it's all about building some character and responsibility, and it's what I know my ex and I will offer up for our own sons. So far, since the offers were placed on the table, his son pretty much ignores Omar when asked for a plan, or details on this car he wants. What happened here is a car was found, he wants this car, he has an emotional attachment to it now, he fears he'll never find a better deal, Mom agrees, they are willing to pay more than this car is worth, etc, and no one thought about how to go about getting said car FIRST. "Oh, OK, let's give you a car!" is not on the list of options, and I think that's led to ill feelings. He's letting his Mom fight the battle with us (well, Omar, but it affects us as a couple and will affect the other 4 kids we have to think about), and he's pretty much removed himself from the situation when he doesn't realize he has a role in this and has full control over how this all ends. For me, it truly is about proving you'll be responsible, and so far he's not taking any steps toward that...

I worked all through high school, lost my weekends to making minimum wage just like most of my friends did. When my Dad saw me doing that, he offered to match whatever I'd saved up to get my first $800 '73 Pontiac Ventura, and I took damn good care of that POS because I had pride in what was mine. I know Omar worked hard for what he had, and he took care of it, paid for the fixes trying to set this precedence for all of our kids, nor do I think it's too much to ask for each one of them to have "some skin" in the deal (Omar's frequently used term lately). The unfortunate outcome in all of this will be for Omar - he'll be painted as the "Dad that refused to help" when the reality is we both just want all 5 of our kids to be responsible and we are willing to help, but each child has to meet us in the middle. I don't think that's a bad thing...
It seems you're situation isn't a lot different than mine. My parents split up right after I turned 15 and the divorce was final a week after my 16th birthday so this car thing was a big issue because my mom didn't make much money at all and was giving my Dad the "you're leaving me with all this" crap... so my dad only actually bought my 1st car.

Maybe some of you will think I am part of this whole lazy ass generation, but if the kid is playing full-time sports with the ability to get a full-ride scholarship (aka no school debt for parents OR student), then he needs to attempt that. That will be much better for him in the long run than a minimum wage weekend job (IF HE STUCK WITH IT)....... I played two years at a junior college (inexpensive) but my last 2 years were played at a private chistian college with about $15k a year in tuition (tuition ONLY) and I graduated without a penny of school debt, nor did my dad pay a penny.

I went to school, practiced from after school until about 5 o'clock every day and played games on the weekends.. At some point homework has to come in and, how I feel, somewhat of a social life... I dont know if his son does well in school but I made sure to bust my butt and got me GPA up high enough that I also got a Tennesse academic scholarship that gave like $5k a year to tuition....

At the end of the day, yes my dad gave me a car, granted this was in 2006 and it was a 94 Thunderbird for $3500.... so it's not like I was given anything new and hip ( BUT IT WAS ALWAYS THE CLEANEST CAR IN THE HIGH SCHOOL PARKING LOT) :laugh:

It seems the only different between our situation is the drive of the child. I wanted to find a resolution for everything rather than just play the quiet game with my dad.
 

Tiller

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#16
I guess you guys could talk to Mrs. Tiller to see how she felt about her end of the deal. She got a hand me down Trooper that served her for quite a few years. She was a straight A student who was very responsible.

We took a bit of a different approach when it came to money though. We wanted to teach the value of money at a young age, so at 14 we started paying our daughter an allowance that was not based on anything but her needs. Clothes, school expenses, (insurance when it came time), movies out, all the things we would normally cover. We pushed that down one level and put the budget on her plate. No asking for movie money or field trip money for band trips. She had chores around the house that she was required to do but they weren't tied to the money. She didn't have an out to say "you keep the money, I'm not doing it." The chores were her contribution to the household. You could ask her, but at 14 she thought she was rich. Those cost of living allowances as she got older probably put a dent in feeling rich though!

To share a it's not all roses story and show you what a good kid she was....she got my temperament which means we might raise our voices a bit when we disagree :) She and I were having a discussion in the drive way with her sitting in the car. She ended up storming off in the car and I gave it a couple of minutes and called her. She answered and I asked her to bring me my car back...she did. She did with some attitude, but she complied. There is a great parent lesson right there. Settle for compliance, don't force attitude. She was not happy! Remember, you think it sucks when you have to do something you don't like too!

I'm beyond blessed . Great wife, son, daughter and son in law...

Good luck Vabs!
Oh the memories :laugh:
 

Twobrothersbusa

Team Gixxer Racing; IDMBT #1
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#17
Seems to me you loved the old gal. Ah the memories of the Thunderbird...police calling my wife's cell...do you know a James Bolen? I'll leave the rest for another time. :)

, granted this was in 2006 and it was a 94 Thunderbird for $3500.... so it's not like I was given anything new and hip :laugh:....
 

Tiller

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#18
Seems to me you loved the old gal. Ah the memories of the Thunderbird...police calling my wife's cell...do you know a James Bolen? I'll leave the rest for another time. :)
Love is almost an understatement! That was the coolest car at my high school as far as i'm concerned... It was definitely an awesome car that was MINE, but by no means was it an expensive ride :)
 

GsxrBots

Motorboatin' Moonpies, Gangnam Style
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#19
FWIW, and I know I talk tough now only having a 6 month old, but I'm not paying for my child's college either. If he wants to go to college, he can get a scholarship or a loan like I and my wife both had to do.

Too easy to flake around in college when you aren't footin' the bill for it..
 

Tiller

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#20
I guess you guys could talk to Mrs. Tiller to see how she felt about her end of the deal. She got a hand me down Trooper that served her for quite a few years. She was a straight A student who was very responsible.

We took a bit of a different approach when it came to money though. We wanted to teach the value of money at a young age, so at 14 we started paying our daughter an allowance that was not based on anything but her needs. Clothes, school expenses, (insurance when it came time), movies out, all the things we would normally cover. We pushed that down one level and put the budget on her plate. No asking for movie money or field trip money for band trips. She had chores around the house that she was required to do but they weren't tied to the money. She didn't have an out to say "you keep the money, I'm not doing it." The chores were her contribution to the household. You could ask her, but at 14 she thought she was rich. Those cost of living allowances as she got older probably put a dent in feeling rich though!

To share a it's not all roses story and show you what a good kid she was....she got my temperament which means we might raise our voices a bit when we disagree :) She and I were having a discussion in the drive way with her sitting in the car. She ended up storming off in the car and I gave it a couple of minutes and called her. She answered and I asked her to bring me my car back...she did. She did with some attitude, but she complied. There is a great parent lesson right there. Settle for compliance, don't force attitude. She was not happy! Remember, you think it sucks when you have to do something you don't like too!

I'm beyond blessed . Great wife, son, daughter and son in law...

Good luck Vabs!
And you're approach worked perfectly.... because now she wont let me spend any :poke: :laugh:
 

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