teka vs powercommander
- Thread starter bradsbusa
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tinmann840
Registered
With the advent of electronic fuel injection on modern motorcycles, there became a need for a sophisticated yet easy to use tool to adjust fuel injection metering.
Previous to the advent of the Teka Suzuki FI Management Tool, there was no tool available to widely adjust the fueling on the Suzuki / Denso ECU.
Existing FI adjusting tools are blessed with high tech-sounding names, but were and still are analog devices that are hampered by cryptic user settings, limited to a very small range of adjustment, and have only 3 throttle ranges to adjust in. The lack of small, discrete tuning ranges, especially at low rpm, leads to limited improvements possible.
Other methods to adjust the fuel rates require "add-on" boxes. Adding an intermediate box to capture and modify sensor signals before the ECU is a perfectly good way to cause the ECU to deliver a different amount of fuel or change the ignition timing.
However, the existing "add-on" boxes (manufactured by 1 company and repackaged under 3 different names, at this time) are flawed by poor design and the use of cheaper, commercial grade electronic components. That causes high-rpm ignition scatter and resulting loss of high rpm power. In fact, the only place that that product looks like it works well is on their own dynos! The Low Inertia Eddy Current EC997 dyno applies a load that is more similar to the load experienced in the real world, and easily shows the power loss caused by ignition scatter when the fuel is adjusted with this add-on box, vs. when using Teka Suzuki FI Adjusting Tool.
The third iteration on that product gets confused by several issues and doesn't access the fuel map properly.
After 2 years of reverse engineering and product research and development, Factory Pro has completed the handheld adjusting tool for the Suzuki / Denso ECU.
The Teka Suzuki FI Adjusting Tool will allow a professional tuner or casual user to exploit the native remapping capabilities built into the Denso / Suzuki ECU - in many small throttle positions and with a relatively wide range of fuelling, + and - adjustment!. No computer required. Realtime changes. Bike runs with the Teka plugged in. You can change mixture as you ride!
Adjust fuel mixture and then - take the Teka FI off. Changes are permanently stored in the Suzuki ECU!
What more could you ask for!
Capabilities include:
4 individual IDLE mixture settings:
In realtime, you are able to adjust each individual cylinder's idle richer or leaner, AS the bike is running!
You can: Rough adjust with the "All Cyls", then fine tune with the Cyl1, Cyl2, Cyl3 or Cyl4 selection.
Makes it super easy to adjust idle mixture - allows you to eliminate the hunting, loping idle caused by improper idle mixture settings. Much better than a power commander or fuel nanny, which can't adjust individual idle - still rough idle possible and likely.
The Denso / Yosh FI adjuster, which can adjust each cylinder's idle mixture, requires that the engine be turned off to program each cylinder, making it difficult to quickly and easily adjust for best idle.
Teka has 5 discrete throttle position RUN settings:
You can adjust and programs fuel delivery in 5 different ranges -
1. up to 10% throttle - to help tune out that annoying off-idle hiccup.
2. 11% to 25% throttle
3. 26% to 50% throttle
4. 51% to 75% throttle
5. 76% to 100% throttle
All adjustable with the engine running!
The Denso / Yosh FI adjuster requires that the engine be turned of to program each cylinder each time, making it impossible to quickly and accurately adjust for best idle.
Widest tuning range:
Teka FI has a super wide range of adjustment of any FI Adjusting tool. We list it as +100 to - 100. That's usually enough to cause lean misfire and rich misfire in most every Suzuki!
The fuel nanny only can richen up mixture - not lean out! Major, major problem with many bikes! The problems with the 3 iteration of a different product will be present here also.
The Yoshimura FI Adjuster has a much limited adjustment range.
Ignition Scatter and other problems avoided:
Unlike the Power Commander 2, the Teka FI does not intercept and attempt to reproduce the ignition pulse causing power-robbing ignition timing scatter at high rpm. By not degrading the original ignition accuracy, Teka FI allows the Suzuki to produce the best top-end power possible as measured under load on the 4-Gas Low Inertia EC997 Eddy Current dyno.
Unlike the Power Commander 3 - the Teka is NOT confused by additional fuel pulses that some ECU's produce under quick acceleration, either. (That's the part of the reason that why PC3 users run into problems in attempting to tuning mixture at high rpm ranges at 10k+ rpms on some bikes).
Could the PC2 concept of intercepting sensor signals ever work?
Yes - it could work - and work very well, at that. We've proved that in the Teka MasterMap add-on box research.
The PC2 concept is very valid - BUT the DynoJet execution is very poorly done in comparison to what it could have been! - starting with the decision to use cheaper commercial-grade components rather than industrial grade.
Teka FI Adjuster can remain attached to the bike while testing:
Remains attached while road testing or dyno testing, unlike the Denso/Yosh FI adjuster.
Laptop NOT required:
Unlike the Power Commanders, no laptop is required to tune. This makes it easy to connect the Teka FI and ride the bike. Ride it - test it - select the "Run" area, pick the range required and hit the RH arrow to richen or the LH arrow to lean out the selected throttle range. Wasn't right? Select the range again and try again! (OK, I cheat. On the Low-Inertia EC997 dyno system, I hold the throttle position and adjust it on the EC997 for best engine smoothness (try that - DynoJet! You can't do that on a model whatever dj dyno - best defense? Don't buy a dj dyno!!).
At the AMA Sears Point National, I tuned a 750 by riding it in first gear at 4k and "snapping" the throttle to 25% to adjust that range for best snap response - and then on to 50% throttle. When the bike stood straight up at each throttle position, it was right - and performed better on the track - coming off corners better at part throttle!
Size?
Fits in your pocket! Cable and all!
Quality:
Lightweight and strong
5-line LCD display
Attractive instrument case that is easy to hold and adjust - with 1 hand
Custom raised overlay for tactile key identification
Keys - rated at over 1,300,000 clicks!
Cable - flexible, rubber insulation - not a stiff, plastic sleeve
Usable on multiple Suzuki's - doesn't stay on the bike - stays in your 4-Gas Low Inertia EC997 Dyno room!
Remembers last settings:
Make your changes - the last settings are stored in the Teka for recording in tuning record for the bike!
Previous to the advent of the Teka Suzuki FI Management Tool, there was no tool available to widely adjust the fueling on the Suzuki / Denso ECU.
Existing FI adjusting tools are blessed with high tech-sounding names, but were and still are analog devices that are hampered by cryptic user settings, limited to a very small range of adjustment, and have only 3 throttle ranges to adjust in. The lack of small, discrete tuning ranges, especially at low rpm, leads to limited improvements possible.
Other methods to adjust the fuel rates require "add-on" boxes. Adding an intermediate box to capture and modify sensor signals before the ECU is a perfectly good way to cause the ECU to deliver a different amount of fuel or change the ignition timing.
However, the existing "add-on" boxes (manufactured by 1 company and repackaged under 3 different names, at this time) are flawed by poor design and the use of cheaper, commercial grade electronic components. That causes high-rpm ignition scatter and resulting loss of high rpm power. In fact, the only place that that product looks like it works well is on their own dynos! The Low Inertia Eddy Current EC997 dyno applies a load that is more similar to the load experienced in the real world, and easily shows the power loss caused by ignition scatter when the fuel is adjusted with this add-on box, vs. when using Teka Suzuki FI Adjusting Tool.
The third iteration on that product gets confused by several issues and doesn't access the fuel map properly.
After 2 years of reverse engineering and product research and development, Factory Pro has completed the handheld adjusting tool for the Suzuki / Denso ECU.
The Teka Suzuki FI Adjusting Tool will allow a professional tuner or casual user to exploit the native remapping capabilities built into the Denso / Suzuki ECU - in many small throttle positions and with a relatively wide range of fuelling, + and - adjustment!. No computer required. Realtime changes. Bike runs with the Teka plugged in. You can change mixture as you ride!
Adjust fuel mixture and then - take the Teka FI off. Changes are permanently stored in the Suzuki ECU!
What more could you ask for!
Capabilities include:
4 individual IDLE mixture settings:
In realtime, you are able to adjust each individual cylinder's idle richer or leaner, AS the bike is running!
You can: Rough adjust with the "All Cyls", then fine tune with the Cyl1, Cyl2, Cyl3 or Cyl4 selection.
Makes it super easy to adjust idle mixture - allows you to eliminate the hunting, loping idle caused by improper idle mixture settings. Much better than a power commander or fuel nanny, which can't adjust individual idle - still rough idle possible and likely.
The Denso / Yosh FI adjuster, which can adjust each cylinder's idle mixture, requires that the engine be turned off to program each cylinder, making it difficult to quickly and easily adjust for best idle.
Teka has 5 discrete throttle position RUN settings:
You can adjust and programs fuel delivery in 5 different ranges -
1. up to 10% throttle - to help tune out that annoying off-idle hiccup.
2. 11% to 25% throttle
3. 26% to 50% throttle
4. 51% to 75% throttle
5. 76% to 100% throttle
All adjustable with the engine running!
The Denso / Yosh FI adjuster requires that the engine be turned of to program each cylinder each time, making it impossible to quickly and accurately adjust for best idle.
Widest tuning range:
Teka FI has a super wide range of adjustment of any FI Adjusting tool. We list it as +100 to - 100. That's usually enough to cause lean misfire and rich misfire in most every Suzuki!
The fuel nanny only can richen up mixture - not lean out! Major, major problem with many bikes! The problems with the 3 iteration of a different product will be present here also.
The Yoshimura FI Adjuster has a much limited adjustment range.
Ignition Scatter and other problems avoided:
Unlike the Power Commander 2, the Teka FI does not intercept and attempt to reproduce the ignition pulse causing power-robbing ignition timing scatter at high rpm. By not degrading the original ignition accuracy, Teka FI allows the Suzuki to produce the best top-end power possible as measured under load on the 4-Gas Low Inertia EC997 Eddy Current dyno.
Unlike the Power Commander 3 - the Teka is NOT confused by additional fuel pulses that some ECU's produce under quick acceleration, either. (That's the part of the reason that why PC3 users run into problems in attempting to tuning mixture at high rpm ranges at 10k+ rpms on some bikes).
Could the PC2 concept of intercepting sensor signals ever work?
Yes - it could work - and work very well, at that. We've proved that in the Teka MasterMap add-on box research.
The PC2 concept is very valid - BUT the DynoJet execution is very poorly done in comparison to what it could have been! - starting with the decision to use cheaper commercial-grade components rather than industrial grade.
Teka FI Adjuster can remain attached to the bike while testing:
Remains attached while road testing or dyno testing, unlike the Denso/Yosh FI adjuster.
Laptop NOT required:
Unlike the Power Commanders, no laptop is required to tune. This makes it easy to connect the Teka FI and ride the bike. Ride it - test it - select the "Run" area, pick the range required and hit the RH arrow to richen or the LH arrow to lean out the selected throttle range. Wasn't right? Select the range again and try again! (OK, I cheat. On the Low-Inertia EC997 dyno system, I hold the throttle position and adjust it on the EC997 for best engine smoothness (try that - DynoJet! You can't do that on a model whatever dj dyno - best defense? Don't buy a dj dyno!!).
At the AMA Sears Point National, I tuned a 750 by riding it in first gear at 4k and "snapping" the throttle to 25% to adjust that range for best snap response - and then on to 50% throttle. When the bike stood straight up at each throttle position, it was right - and performed better on the track - coming off corners better at part throttle!
Size?
Fits in your pocket! Cable and all!
Quality:
Lightweight and strong
5-line LCD display
Attractive instrument case that is easy to hold and adjust - with 1 hand
Custom raised overlay for tactile key identification
Keys - rated at over 1,300,000 clicks!
Cable - flexible, rubber insulation - not a stiff, plastic sleeve
Usable on multiple Suzuki's - doesn't stay on the bike - stays in your 4-Gas Low Inertia EC997 Dyno room!
Remembers last settings:
Make your changes - the last settings are stored in the Teka for recording in tuning record for the bike!
forceofnature
Registered
Well how can you be lost if a salesman want to sell you a teka but everyone else tells you the PC3.
tinmann840
Registered
They are not cheap . It list at $595.00 plus shipping from:
http://www.factorypro.com/TEKA_SFI/TEKA_EMS_Suzuki_FI_Adjuster.html
http://www.factorypro.com/TEKA_SFI/TEKA_EMS_Suzuki_FI_Adjuster.html
forceofnature
Registered
Well when you get it please give a report out on tuning etc. If it works as stated there will be converts I am sure.
This sounds like a great product - if it works as advertised. I love the fact that you don't have to leave it installed, you can use it on multiple bikes, and could share the cost with others who want the same results.
I would like to hear from someone who has actually used one, preferrably an experienced mechanic. How 'bout it JohnnyCheese? Any experience with this?
I would like to hear from someone who has actually used one, preferrably an experienced mechanic. How 'bout it JohnnyCheese? Any experience with this?
JohnnyCheese has already made his opinion known. At least he did a few years ago. Not sure if he's changed his mind...
I think it comes down to if you want to "tune" your bike yourself, and you don't have access to the dyno, tuning expertise, etc., the Teka is a good box. It's still "seat o' the pants" tuning however.
If you want something more "scientific", where you can see the before and after, then the PCIII is the way to go.
I think it comes down to if you want to "tune" your bike yourself, and you don't have access to the dyno, tuning expertise, etc., the Teka is a good box. It's still "seat o' the pants" tuning however.
If you want something more "scientific", where you can see the before and after, then the PCIII is the way to go.
I have quite a few comments about the information in tinmann's post. I’ll post them one or two at a time through the day.
Unlike the Power Commander 3 - the Teka is NOT confused by additional fuel pulses that some ECU's produce under quick acceleration, either. (That's the part of the reason that why PC3 users run into problems in attempting to tuning mixture at high rpm ranges at 10k+ rpms on some bikes).[/Quote]
I have not heard of this with the Hayabusa. Has anyone else? Maybe it is an issue with some of the 600cc bikes at ultra high rpms, but I have not heard of it on a Busa even with extended ECUs.
Unlike the Power Commander 3 - the Teka is NOT confused by additional fuel pulses that some ECU's produce under quick acceleration, either. (That's the part of the reason that why PC3 users run into problems in attempting to tuning mixture at high rpm ranges at 10k+ rpms on some bikes).[/Quote]
I have not heard of this with the Hayabusa. Has anyone else? Maybe it is an issue with some of the 600cc bikes at ultra high rpms, but I have not heard of it on a Busa even with extended ECUs.
Lurk mode
4 individual IDLE mixture settings:
In realtime, you are able to adjust each individual cylinder's idle richer or leaner, AS the bike is running!
You can: Rough adjust with the "All Cyls", then fine tune with the Cyl1, Cyl2, Cyl3 or Cyl4 selection.
Makes it super easy to adjust idle mixture - allows you to eliminate the hunting, loping idle caused by improper idle mixture settings. Much better than a power commander or fuel nanny, which can't adjust individual idle - still rough idle possible and likely.
The Denso / Yosh FI adjuster, which can adjust each cylinder's idle mixture, requires that the engine be turned off to program each cylinder, making it difficult to quickly and easily adjust for best idle.[/Quote]
While I have not used it, isn’t the PCIIIusb capable of individual cylinder tuning?
Promote it to advanced map and you have 4 full fuel tables. Is it not for that same function? Is the FP-TEKA box limited to IDLE or does it have full tables. I would think individual 80-100% throttle tuning from 7K-11K would be more important than Idle?
In realtime, you are able to adjust each individual cylinder's idle richer or leaner, AS the bike is running!
You can: Rough adjust with the "All Cyls", then fine tune with the Cyl1, Cyl2, Cyl3 or Cyl4 selection.
Makes it super easy to adjust idle mixture - allows you to eliminate the hunting, loping idle caused by improper idle mixture settings. Much better than a power commander or fuel nanny, which can't adjust individual idle - still rough idle possible and likely.
The Denso / Yosh FI adjuster, which can adjust each cylinder's idle mixture, requires that the engine be turned off to program each cylinder, making it difficult to quickly and easily adjust for best idle.[/Quote]
While I have not used it, isn’t the PCIIIusb capable of individual cylinder tuning?
Most tuners are more familiar with the PC way of life. I'd stick with that. I've seen some nice race bikes, and they had PCs on them, no sign of TEKA.
Teka looks nice, but it is pricey!!! All of that text in the long post comes directly from the teka site, so of course it's gonna support their product.
It would be interesting to do some testing in the real world though on one bike. Keep in mind, if this test is done, the bike would need to be zeroed back out (if the teka made changes to the ECU) before the PC was used.
Teka looks nice, but it is pricey!!! All of that text in the long post comes directly from the teka site, so of course it's gonna support their product.
It would be interesting to do some testing in the real world though on one bike. Keep in mind, if this test is done, the bike would need to be zeroed back out (if the teka made changes to the ECU) before the PC was used.
Teka has 5 discrete throttle position RUN settings:
You can adjust and programs fuel delivery in 5 different ranges -
1. up to 10% throttle - to help tune out that annoying off-idle hiccup.
2. 11% to 25% throttle
3. 26% to 50% throttle
4. 51% to 75% throttle
5. 76% to 100% throttle
All adjustable with the engine running![/Quote]
The PCIIIusb can tune 0% 2% 5% 10% 20% 40% 60% 80% 100% throttle positions. Positions in between are changed using a weighted average of the surrounding cells. From my datalogging on the street I can ensure you the busa spends most of its cruising time in the 3%-7% range. If you would have asked me before I had the ability to capture the data, I would have guessed 15-20%. So with 4 ranges from 0%-10% on the pcIIIusb, would that be better for tuning the off-idle? Do we want the same off-idle tuning to be applied to cruising? I’m not sure but I would think having the 5% cell a bit leaner would help mileage. Richening the 0-2% should help off throttle response. Is having all of the extra cells overkill? Tuners out there……. What do you think?
You can adjust and programs fuel delivery in 5 different ranges -
1. up to 10% throttle - to help tune out that annoying off-idle hiccup.
2. 11% to 25% throttle
3. 26% to 50% throttle
4. 51% to 75% throttle
5. 76% to 100% throttle
All adjustable with the engine running![/Quote]
The PCIIIusb can tune 0% 2% 5% 10% 20% 40% 60% 80% 100% throttle positions. Positions in between are changed using a weighted average of the surrounding cells. From my datalogging on the street I can ensure you the busa spends most of its cruising time in the 3%-7% range. If you would have asked me before I had the ability to capture the data, I would have guessed 15-20%. So with 4 ranges from 0%-10% on the pcIIIusb, would that be better for tuning the off-idle? Do we want the same off-idle tuning to be applied to cruising? I’m not sure but I would think having the 5% cell a bit leaner would help mileage. Richening the 0-2% should help off throttle response. Is having all of the extra cells overkill? Tuners out there……. What do you think?
At what RPMs increments is the TEKA box tuning? I see one reference to 1000rpm on their home page. I hope that is not the case. If so I think the PCIIIusb has an advantage of tuning in 250rpm increments. I know of a couple of tuners that have criticized maps that were tuned in 500rpm steps. Maybe this will tune in 100rpm increments. I don't know.
<span style='font-size:8pt;line-height:100%'>From the home page</span>
For fun, we can do a single pull, fully controlled step test in 1000 rpm increments in about the same time as the "other guys" do an uncontrolled inertia sweep test.. [/Quote]
<span style='font-size:8pt;line-height:100%'>From the home page</span>
For fun, we can do a single pull, fully controlled step test in 1000 rpm increments in about the same time as the "other guys" do an uncontrolled inertia sweep test.. [/Quote]
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