Take A Knee Or Hide In The Locker Room?

So this is my last post on this issue.

The founding of this country was not about religion it was about freedom, if you think that is a semantic difference then IMHO you don't get it. The founders saw the inherent threat religion was to freedom and developed a system to protect freedom from religion while still allowing people to practice their chosen beliefs. What I find that Christians today don't see is that religion only works if it's about an individuals relationship with God. Otherwise it is a form of government, one based on absolutes - which is antithetical to freedom.

Our founders were protesters, violent ones at that. They would think Kaepernick was doing exactly what the constitution asked him to do. The problem is people are insulted because he is not letting them overlook the real issues. I saw a story where some bar had a doormat that said "Lynch Kaepernick", that's what the problem really is TallTom.
 
Folks let use some facts...

Mayflower Compact : 1620
Agreement Between the Settlers at New Plymouth : 1620
IN THE NAME OF GOD, AMEN. We, whose names are underwritten, the Loyal Subjects of our dread Sovereign Lord King James, by the Grace of God, of Great Britain, France, and Ireland, King, Defender of the Faith, &c. Having undertaken for the Glory of God, and Advancement of the Christian Faith, and the Honour of our King and Country, a Voyage to plant the first Colony in the northern Parts of Virginia; Do by these Presents, solemnly and mutually, in the Presence of God and one another, covenant and combine ourselves together into a civil Body Politick, for our better Ordering and Preservation, and Furtherance of the Ends aforesaid: And by Virtue hereof do enact, constitute, and frame, such just and equal Laws, Ordinances, Acts, Constitutions, and Officers, from time to time, as shall be thought most meet and convenient for the general Good of the Colony; unto which we promise all due Submission and Obedience. IN WITNESS whereof we have hereunto subscribed our names at Cape-Cod the eleventh of November, in the Reign of our Sovereign Lord King James, of England, France, and Ireland, the eighteenth, and of Scotland the fifty-fourth, Anno Domini; 1620.

Mr. John Carver,
Mr. William Bradford,
Mr Edward Winslow,
Mr. William Brewster.
Isaac Allerton,
Myles Standish,
John Alden,
John Turner,
Francis Eaton,
James Chilton,
John Craxton,
John Billington,
Joses Fletcher,
John Goodman,
Mr. Samuel Fuller,
Mr. Christopher Martin,
Mr. William Mullins,
Mr. William White,
Mr. Richard Warren,
John Howland,
Mr. Steven Hopkins,
Digery Priest,
Thomas Williams,
Gilbert Winslow,
Edmund Margesson,
Peter Brown,
Richard Britteridge
George Soule,
Edward Tilly,
John Tilly,
Francis Cooke,
Thomas Rogers,
Thomas Tinker,
John Ridgdale
Edward Fuller,
Richard Clark,
Richard Gardiner,
Mr. John Allerton,
Thomas English,
Edward Doten,
Edward Liester
 
I'll break my rule and respond. That was a compact written by a Christian group Capt. That was 156+ years before the constitution was written and even before the revolutionary war. The enlightenment had not even happened yet. There were many groups in the colonies from as far back as the 1st century. BTW the Norse were polytheistic.
 
I saw a story where some bar had a doormat that said"Lynch Kaepernick", that's what the problemreally is

Comments and media statements like this is creating and provoking these issues. The guy turned their jerseys in to door mats and when someone pointed out how it could be viewed he putt Kapernick jersey on the left.

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I'll break my rule and respond. That was a compact written by a Christian group Capt. That was 156+ years before the constitution was written and even before the revolutionary war. The enlightenment had not even happened yet. There were many groups in the colonies from as far back as the 1st century. BTW the Norse were polytheistic.

Willie that was to show you the reason that people first left England... To spread the Gospel, you are correct so a very Christian society had been establised and was thriving here.. let's not confusefolks like the decleration of independace was when people first came and that is what started it all.

Mayflower Compact
The 1620 agreement (first called the Mayflower Compact in 1793) was a legal instrument that bound the Pilgrims together when they arrived in New England. The core members of the Pilgrims' immigrant group were Separatists, members of a Puritan sect that had split from the Church of England, the only legal church in England at that time. Others in the group, however, had remained part of the Church of England, so not all of the Pilgrims shared the same religion.

When the Pilgrims left England, they obtained permission from the King of England to settle on land farther to the south near the mouth of the Hudson River (in present-day New York). Because they chose to remain where they landed in New England, they needed a new permission (called a patent) to settle there. On November 11, 1620, needing to maintain order and establish a civil society while they waited for this new patent, the adult male passengers signed the Mayflower Compact.

Mayflower%20Compact%201995.jpg


In 1802, John Quincy Adams described the agreement as “the only instance in human history of that positive, original, social compact” and it is popularly believed to have influenced the Declaration of Independence and the U.S. Constitution.
 
If you get bored just Google "Puritan impact on the declaration of independance" and you will see plenty of papers, professors, historians and documents to show the facts. There is ZERO debate among professionals that the Puritan's had major impact on the Declaration....
 
I saw a story where some bar had a doormat that said"Lynch Kaepernick", that's what the problemreally is

Comments and media statements like this is creating and provoking these issues. The guy turned their jerseys in to door mats and when someone pointed out how it could be viewed he putt Kapernick jersey on the left.

View attachment 1576682

Was the problem that the press that covered it or the fact that Lynch was placed on the left originally? Maybe I'm being ignorant but I assume that there is a player named Lynch that supported Kapernick? I really don't follow sports and haven't for years. If he changed the order, nobody is going to see it any differently if they are going to make it racial. I think the owner of the bar did the right thing by realizing that it looked like he could be implying a racial hate crime and rearranged it. If not then yes it takes on more of a racial tone . This is part of the problem. We have to be very careful nothing we say may upset someone of color or be seen as racist. Even if its not meant to. Its hard to know what will upset them from one week to the next. However he could argue he exercising his right to free speech. Nah that won't work. His place will be torched by next week.
 
So this is my last post on this issue.

The founding of this country was not about religion it was about freedom, if you think that is a semantic difference then IMHO you don't get it. The founders saw the inherent threat religion was to freedom and developed a system to protect freedom from religion while still allowing people to practice their chosen beliefs. What I find that Christians today don't see is that religion only works if it's about an individuals relationship with God. Otherwise it is a form of government, one based on absolutes - which is antithetical to freedom.

I saw a story where some bar had a doormat that said "Lynch Kaepernick", that's what the problem really is TallTom.

And what he seems to not get is that if he wouldn't have been so disrespectful nobody would have such harsh feelings towards him.
 
And hopefully my last thought on this matter. When people suggest that violence is the only solution or imply that violence is what brings about change, should not be surprised if they are met with the same violence that was used to gain our core values in the first place.
 
If you get bored just Google "Puritan impact on the declaration of independance" and you will see plenty of papers, professors, historians and documents to show the facts. There is ZERO debate among professionals that the Puritan's had major impact on the Declaration....

I don't think I ever said there was no Christian influences on the constitution, but I stand by my assertion it was not a Christian document. I know some about the Puritans but most of that is from their abolitionist activities. I always felt they figured into things post-1776 as the country wrestled with slavery leading up to the civil war. I will read more, thanks for the perspective.
 
And this is where it takes us to.... Because people just don't have any limits for what is acceptable, not only is this disrespectful but it's selfish and pulls the attention to him and not the fallen soldiers. Regardless of the cause you are now seeing people that have no ability to process right from wrong, common decency and respect follow in the footsteps of the NFL players. This is the power that athletes and those in the spotlight hold, they brought some attention to the cause alright, now people are disgusted with them and the backlash has started. There is a responsibility as a person with an influencial platform to use it with careful consideration for how it will be received. It doesn't matter your intent if it's carelessly and recklessly messaged.

My belief in this concept is for all people in leadership especially POTUS, all government and those cast into the spotlight because of a talent!

Picture of man kneeling during taps at Tomb of the Unknown Soldier is sparking outrage following NFL protests
The picture comes when kneeling during the national anthem is resulting in protests of the NFL.

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Cap. You're spot on about limits. Its seems to be the agenda to keep pushing those limits and expecting everyone to let them without punishment. An in your face dare you to retaliate so they can jump on the racial hatred wagon again. In short they feel they can do what they want, when they want, how they want, and eff anyone who tries to retaliate as they will bring the whole racial hammer down on anything that says different.

I do however want to share a bit more about the pic you posted. The lady that took it was interviewed about it. There is a bit more to the pic than what we see here. She admitted that the man kneeling was holding a camera and it was possible that he was attempting to get a better camera view. She did not realize that there was a camera in his hand at the time. She did still feel that it was an intentional act of disrespect, however there is a caveat that he could have just been unaware or ignorant as to how it could have been perceived.

So I want to try and be as fair as I can when I see some of this and try and find some other logic so we don't fan an already inflamed situation. Maybe he was just trying to get a better angle.

She also pointed out that at the Tomb there is dress code. Just about everyone in the pic on this end was not appropriately dressed. And none of the soldiers made any attempts to call them out on it. So they have to be careful what to complain about and what to let go. As they will be held to a pretty accountable standard for anything they do on duty here. This is one of the most coveted honors a soldier can have to serve at Arlington.
 
This is one of the most coveted honors a soldier can have to serve at Arlington.

This is one of the most in all of the military!


I made an aluminum tribute for the parents of a young man named Josh Wesnidge in 2014 who is from my hometown. Josh's mom watched my son from the time he was 6 months old to kindergarten so they shared a lot of boogers and toys. Josh's dad is an old highschool friend and I promise you there is not a father that is prouder of his son than Steve is of Josh.

Josh was the 608th Sentinal to guard the tomb and his stories of the requirements and daily routines are humbling to a regular guy like me. His dedication and vows he took to become a Sentinal are life long and they did not stop when he left the military. There was a picture that went around a few years ago of a storm up in the NE that was intensifying and a news crew took a pic of the Sentinals still guarding. I believe it was the hurricane that hit the NE and caused so much damage just a few years ago. Steve texted me a picture of Josh and to this day he keeps it with him to remember the honor and dedication his son had for the fallen and unknown.

This guard in my opinion is a hero and he guards the Tomb of the Unknown American hero's!
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Reading this whole thread, the only thing I can say is that if life is so good here, enabling someone to become a millionaire by playing with a ball, the least that someone can do is respect America, respect it's anthem and respect the flag. Period. Otherwise, leave, go find some greener pastures somewhere else on the planet.
 
I have been to Arlington 3 times now. I'll admit to some dedication to my past military responsibilities. But its in a whole different way than what these soldiers do at Arlington. There is a lot more than guarding the Tomb that being at Arlington entails and personally I'd be pretty bored with it if I was facing it. But its a different cloth they are cut from and I have the utmost respect for their dedication and strive for perfection. I personally can't help but get a warn heart of patriotism when I go there. No matter how many times I go, its humbling and you can't help but feel a bit taken back by what it represents. The amount of care they put into the maintenance of those headstones is mind boggling.
 
Useful idiots and there are plenty of them. That punk kneeling at Arlington needs a tune up session on his way out, what a pile of human debris...
 
It appears that Kapernick is now learning the consequences of deciding that all of the opportunity he has been provided in this country and the NFL, all the recognition of his talent that he would never see anywhere else in the world, doesn't appear to be good enough for him. He had to show disrespect for the very things that made him the wealthy athlete he is.

He now can't get a contract and what do you know hes now gonna sue the NFL for the results of his actions. That is part of the underlying problems that contributes to the continued tensions in America. The asshats do wrong, they knew they do wrong, but they don't expect any consequences for it. And whine when there is.

I hear there are openings in the military. Maybe he can try and see if they can use his talents.
 
If I made millions of dollars to play a game,
I would stand for the national anthem of any country I am in .

People are blessed with talent to again,
play a game as a professional .

Spoiled .

They need to support our country,
even if they don't agree with our president .

I hear there are openings in the military .

Maybe he can try and see if they can use his talents .

1d3d34a705f9cff76dbaf98bd536e535--conservatism-folded-flag.jpg
 
Didn't really want to throw my 2cents into this debate but what the hell.....

My grandfather was in the Navy, my father and uncle were in Vietnam, my best friends all served, my half brother is currently enlisted in the Army, and I was former enlisted as well. Not saying that my opinion is right or carries more weight but I just wanted to let everybody know my background before commenting.

Had a discussion with a good friend of mine who was in the Navy and he asked me how I felt about the kneeling protest. He said he really doesnt watch football or sports for that matter but he said he didn't find kneeling offensive. He didn't see it as a big deal and there's a lot of hypocrites on the other side making a big fuss about it. His example was an older guy @ work bitching about the protests and saying how he's done watching football and he'll never go to a game again cause these punks are disrespecting "Murica" and our nations flag!!!

So my buddy asked him "what do you do for our country?" Said the guy looked at him confused.... Then he proceeded to ask him aside from standing for the national anthem and removing your hat what else have you done? Have you served? How much do you donate to the wounded warrior project? How many fundraisers or 5k's have you attended to benefit the VA or the the troops, how are you working to actively make this country better....?? Said the guy got red in the face and walked away mumbling cause he knew my buddy has and continues to do all of the above.

My take on it is I feel my buddy is right. There seems to be a lot of hypocrites on both sides of this argument. Just cause you stand for the national anthem doesn't make you a "Patriot". Not when the majority of your free time and $$$ is spent sitting on a couch drinking Miller Lights..... It really makes me question a lot of people's motives to be honest. Are you that upset because somebody is kneeling or are you that upset cause that "somebody" kneeling happens to be black.....????

I'm not saying you have had to served in the Armed Forces or given a pound of flesh for our country to have a valid opinion. However, if your whole basis of validation is standing during the anthem then I think you need to say less and Do more.....

Same goes for the other side...... If your kneeling you damn sure better be doing something in the community to improve and make it better!!! If not then your just kneeling to be cool and basically turned it into the "Ice Bucket" challenge. The message of the protest will carry no weight unless you lead bye example!!!! I would like to know how many of them millionaires actually donate back to their communities?? If not they need to shut up and stand cause they are hypocrites too!

The media has sensationalized this story and thrown gasoline on an already blazing racial inferno!!! It's not even about the games anymore it's more hyped up about who's gonna stand who's gonna kneel!?!? When the national anthem is played instead of the camera panning in on the singer or the flag they are constantly zooming in on a player kneeling!!! That.... pisses me off more than anything!!! I don't wanna see a player kneeling or standing. I wanna see the singer, wanna see the troops holding the flag!!!
 
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