Take A Knee Or Hide In The Locker Room?

[piratediverjefff]

Now I see the overpaid NBA thugs and pathetic Hollywood libs are getting in on the action,like anyone really gives a poop what they think.

 

[jellyrug]

Having played rugby in the day, I have never been able to make the NFL connection.

I know it is a really big deal here, but for me.... Helmets and shoulder pads belong on the MotoGP circuit.

Sorry, can't comment further, find the sport real boring, never watch.

 

[justintime2]

Anyone who has not read “Rules For Radicals” please take the time to do so, these tactics are right out of their playbook for bringing down America. I know this behavior doesn’t make sense to those of us who love this country but hate what it has become, however once you realize a good chunk of these agitators hate this country and love what it’s become the reason for all of it will become clear.

As for Kaepernick? He’s not only finished off his career but just about the last of his radicalization too. He now hosts black panther camps for youths, is a Islamic opologist and helping separate him from his money for worthy causes he’s dating one of the leaders of the black lives matter movement. But if that weren’t enough the tool bag also wears a Fidel Castro T-shirt and supports the communist regime in Cuba.

We’ve got one vote anymore and it’s not at the ballot box, corruption is too rampant, it’s your dollar. Do not spend your hard earned money funding your own demise, do not spend a dime on movies where the actors ridicule and lecture you, do not spend a dime going to an over priced sports game where the athletes think you are a racist, do not spend a dime of your money paying for cable tv packages that give ESPN and the nfl monthly checks so they can continue to blame your president and you for their failings, do not let these people destroy what you love without pushing back then turn right around and unwittingly refinance their efforts by patronizing their store fronts.

 

[piratediverjefff]

Watched a rugby game(or match?)the other night and found it pretty cool(don't understand the rules,particularly the group shoving match,but found it entertaining).Without pads and helmets NFL players wouldn't make it through a game,and even with they sustain lots of concussions/crippling injuries due to the harder contact than what I've seen in rugby.The only teams/sports I watch/support are the Yankees and the Patriots,can't stand basketball.Big GRONK fan.

 

[jellyrug]

Watched a rugby game(or match?)the other night and found it pretty cool(don't understand the rules,particularly the group shoving match,but found it entertaining).Without pads and helmets NFL players wouldn't make it through a game,and even with they sustain lots of concussions/crippling injuries due to the harder contact than what I've seen in rugby.The only teams/sports I watch/support are the Yankees and the Patriots,can't stand basketball.Big GRONK fan.

LOL, I had an assignment out in the Pacific with some management folks from the US, New Zealand and Australia. Most of the workers were from Western Samoa. We use to have inter-company rugby games, so QC, would play Production, Engineering etc. The managers from the USA sat me down for a meeting and told me I can't allow this tradition to continue, as these folks are going to kill each other. The standard reply from the rest were, "Welcome to the game of Rugby."

 

[VIPER]

I understand they have "strong" beliefs blah blah blah. Keep it out of the workplace. Yes game time is the workplace. Keep your beliefs to yourself. Isnt that what we have been told as christians? There should not be a double standard.

 

[TallTom]

Keep your beliefs to yourself. Isnt that what we have been told as christians?

Not to sound inflammatory but I don't know many Christians that keep their beliefs to themselves around where I live. In fact most openly try and recruit you into their church.

 

[busabobh]

Their actions fill me wit

 

[captain]

Not to sound inflammatory but I don't know many Christians that keep their beliefs to themselves around where I live. In fact most openly try and recruit you into their church.

Not sure I would use the word "recruit" but as a citizen or a friend I share my faith with others not to push it on you but to tell you about something I believe in. I think a good comparison for this situation would be when Tim Tebow just wanted to take a knee all by himself to pray and was told he could not. There is a major difference in someone in your community taking a stand or even speaking with you as opposed to someone using a major televised sporting event as an opportunity to bring attention to thier cause. Can they just not play football?

 

[TallTom]

Not sure I would use the word "recruit" but as a citizen or a friend I share my faith with others not to push it on you but to tell you about something I believe in. I think a good comparison for this situation would be when Tim Tebow just wanted to take a knee all by himself to pray and was told he could not. There is a major difference in someone in your community taking a stand or even speaking with you as opposed to someone using a major televised sporting event as an opportunity to bring attention to their cause. Can they just not play football?

Call it what you want. Again I'm not trying to sound inflammatory. I recognize I live in a part of the country that seems deeply religious. I don't take issue with anyone that has a faith or a religion that comforts them through life. But I don't need saving, I don't need their church in my life and I don't need to have any different feelings towards God than I do already. So they don't need to waste their energy trying to make me feel differently. Part of the faith is to spread the word. That takes on all sorts of meanings to different people and faiths.

But you brought up an EXCELLENT point Cap. Look at the steps taken to stop Tim Tebow from kneeling in the name of faith, yet they don't touch anyone kneeling for their social cause of race relations. I do find this a very interesting hypocrisy. But this is the new norm.

 

[VIPER]

My point exactly. They stop a christian and his faith but not blm or anything else.

 

[captain]

Call it what you want. Again I'm not trying to sound inflammatory. I recognize I live in a part of the country that seems deeply religious. I don't take issue with anyone that has a faith or a religion that comforts them through life. But I don't need saving, I don't need their church in my life and I don't need to have any different feelings towards God than I do already. So they don't need to waste their energy trying to make me feel differently. Part of the faith is to spread the word. That takes on all sorts of meanings to different people and faiths.

But you brought up an EXCELLENT point Cap. Look at the steps taken to stop Tim Tebow from kneeling in the name of faith, yet they don't touch anyone kneeling for their social cause of race relations. I do find this a very interesting hypocrisy. But this is the new norm.

Sir I get it.... And I hope that I have never come across as a pushy bible thumping Christian because that is not my intentions. I do realize there are folks in North America that may have a great message but the delivery sucks and that goes for just about every group and catagory we can come up with. I have always believed that the best way to demonstrate what I believe is to live it each day. I can honestly say that over the last 18 years we have had this site I have grown in my faith (Not religion) and I am not the same person I was 10 years ago (That is a good thing my wife says)... I have had the honor to go on some weeklong rides with other believers in my Faith and we prayed together each day before we took off. I haven't tried to push God on anyone because frankly if you know anything about Christianity that's just not how it works...

I don't think your inflammatory or negative or anything like that. We are adults and can have a conversation over just about any topic and you would never know what I believe unless you watched how I live and how I speak. Most people I meet call me a heathen anyway

 

[TallTom]

Look religion is like race and politics. There are deep held beliefs and deep held differences in individuals. I think what has become a common theme is, what America was founded on, is being slowly drained from us. Whatever we want to identify what we were founded on we are now being told to stop believing in. The U.S was found as an English speaking Christian nation of people that work hard, believed in Capitalism, and pretty much agreed an what was considered right and wrong. I don't need to be a Christian to know how to treat another human being or how to work hard or how to identify when someone is doing something what seems wrong to me. But I live in this country and I have to expect and respect that if I'm not Christian, don't work hard, and make money to get ahead I am going against what this country is founded on. Doesn't mean I can't be these things, it just means I should expect to see and feel some blow back by those that do. It is part of the culture of this country. What has occurred in this country has caused me to question why should I stay here and slowly be drained of all I feel made me and what success I have had. I'm happy to share my ethics to help others go the same way I managed, but they don't want this. They want the path of do less and get more.

We did this to ourselves in many ways. These days buying a 9 year old a smartphone or a 16 year old a car because that is the new norm of expected standards has nothing to do with race, religion, politics. It has come about by a shift in values that we can debate all day long as to the source of the shift.

If a child grows up with no family, no skills, no work ethic, we should not be upset if they choose to sell drugs to make money. What else would they do to make enough money to buy those $1000 phones, those $300 shoes, that car etc.? I can't blame them. We do need to get how its created. All of those lack ofs aren't their fault. How they live their lives is their fault and their choosing. But with little else for options........

Here is real life example that hurts my heart. My g/f is a physician. Once in awhile work gets to her. Here is an example she shared. I can't reveal too much about the actual person as I would not wish to violate privacy. 17 year old male being treated for suicide and depression. He was raised by his grandmother who is now ailing and he cares for her. Straight As in school. Honor student. No legal or discipline problems. In order to care for his grandmother, he chose to take online University to allow him to care for GM as well as continue his education. Can't find a job. Needs money to keep things going. Granted he has specific circumstances that don't help his situation, but he is doing the right thing morally and socially. But he has honestly disclosed that he is considering becoming a drug dealer and that causes him to go into depression.

If I could I would hire him right now. I wish I could. People like this need to get ahead in life. They are doing everything I'd call right. It pains me that he will probably be overcome by realistic circumstances. In these type things I hope there is a GOD that will somehow allow him to find some reward that makes all of his choices seem right. Because the secular world is kicking his ass.

 

[fallenarch]

Religion is not like race as race is not optional. We were not founded as a Christian nation, that is simply false. They were for the most part Christians who founded this country but at the time they were looking for something beyond religion (which realize many came to the new world to get away from religious persecution). That is why our constitution carefully defines the state as something different from religion and protects both the state and religion from each other. Several of the authors of the constitution were publically acknowledged atheists. Also, we spoke many languages when the country was founded. Native Americans had many languages, there was Spanish, French and German too. There is no mention of a national language in the constitution that I know of. It was written in English because they were the majority population at the time. Just wanted to point out those facts.

 

[skydivr]

Doug, I have never felt you be pushy about your faith; rather, I see you do your best to set an example.

 

[TallTom]

Religion is not like race as race is not optional. We were not founded as a Christian nation, that is simply false. They were for the most part Christians who founded this country but at the time they were looking for something beyond religion (which realize many came to the new world to get away from religious persecution). That is why our constitution carefully defines the state as something different from religion and protects both the state and religion from each other. Several of the authors of the constitution were publically acknowledged atheists. Also, we spoke many languages when the country was founded. Native Americans had many languages, there was Spanish, French and German too. There is no mention of a national language in the constitution that I know of. It was written in English because they were the majority population at the time. Just wanted to point out those facts.

Those facts?

In 1787, 55 delegates to the Constitutional Convention gathered in the city of Philadelphia to debate the foundational document for the newly formed United States. None of them were Native American, Germans or Spaniards. While that may not have been all that have interest in this countries values, we can't re-write the history of how our country was organized.

When you go to a court proceeding, who do you swear your telling the truth to? When you carry money around who does it say in whom we trust? When you get married, why is it usually a church before God ceremony? So to what God does that mean? It doesn't say a Christian God. And yes Willie you are correct some of those delegates had differing views on religion. Hence why they don't Constituitionalize a specific religion and make it clear we have religious freedom. However Christianity was the predominating religion of that time, and it was spread with more vigor than all other religions in this country. Why were there Christian crosses that get erected symbolically in what once was a lot of places? Why are Christian holidays the most celebrated ones in America? It isn't because we are founded on all religions and ethnicities. We do however respect all religions and ethnicites. Its what make our country what it is. While I support the diverse religious freedoms we have, we are by and large a Christian based society here in America. Not Muslim based, not Hebrew based, Not Zulu based, Christian based. Yet all of those religions are here and able to worship as they choose. I personally may not think that Christianity is a valid religion, I respect that it is what the predominant choice is. Rather than bad mouth it, I simply agree to understand it.

If I go to Saudi Arabia and say anything disrespectful about the Muslim faith, it would literally mean I lose my head. So when I go to Saudi Arabia I respect that I am in a Muslim nation and keep my opposing views to myself. And you know what, it works pretty good.

English was our primary language from the days of Plymouth Rock and is still the recognized language of this country. Not EBonics, not German, Not Asain. By necessity we probably should learn Spanish as those that come here from Spanish speaking countries are beginning to force us to speak their language instead of the other way around. Another part of the problem. If I go to Latin America, should I expect them to speak English or should they expect me to speak Spanish? Don't come here and tell me I have to be like what you left.

While I respect that we have many cultures that have come to America, they did so because of the cultures the founding fathers used to build a country that most chose to come to. With the exception of black slaves, I am pretty sure most every German, Spaniard, Asian or Muslim that came here did so because this offered a better life. And it may seem hard to grasp to some but it seems like it takes them one generation to become more a part of a society they came here to live in, rather than trying to make America bend to the values they left behind. And yes there is the problem of the ones that didn't come here by free will. For that I can't change. But anyone, anyone, can leave this country of their own free will. Why don't those that feel like they were here by circumstances that were unjust go live someplace that they feel they will be treated better in?

Kapernick has enough money to retire anywhere he likes. Why doesn't he go somewhere where he can feel better about his lot in life? And take as many of his friends as he likes. Oh I forgot, he is trying to help a social cause.

That's my plan. I don't intend on staying here. Has nothing to do with race. It has everything to do with how the America I need, is no longer. I'm just an outdated dinosaur. So I'll make as much as I can, pay as little as possible into a broken system and go become extinct elsewhere and let them enjoy the money I earned that help their economy. And I want to do this sooner rather than later. The longer I stay, the worse it seems to become.

 

[TallTom]

And another things you pointed out Willie. Race is not a choice like religion. True statement. But you leave out that each race has choices they can make in how they conduct themselves in this country. I am again reminded that your Germans, Spaniards et all seem to assimilate pretty well into the American vision of the country we are happy to have them in. I wonder how they manage to accomplish that without rioting, having laws passed to protect and promote them etc. Heck the Japanese were not only en-turned in WWII, they had land and property stolen from them by the Govt. and NEVER given back Yet they assimilated back into our country as Americans and became part of the success we enjoyed.

 

[fallenarch]

1. I said the English were the majority and so the constitution was written in English. It is also true that the colonies were British territories at the time, so it follows that we declared our independence from Englishmen in English. But many languages were spoken in the colonies. Look at almost every road and states from the Midwest west, they are Native American names. The Dutch and Germans settled NY. French FL, LA. and parts of the north and Spanish in FL and southwest.

2. "In God We Trust" was added to money much later, I think Eisenhower did it around 1950's. There is no requirement for a Christian bible in the swearing in of anyone in our government. Several presidents have used other books, T Roosevelt, J Quincy Adams & Pierce did not use bibles. I believe Eisenhower ironically did not use a bible at swearing in either, the last modern POTUS to do so. Some have used law books instead, symbolically a reference to the rule of law over the rule of religion.

3. The oath of office does not require the POTUS elect to swear allegiance to a god. It says (had to look this part up) "I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the Office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States." This is of course from Article II of the constitution.

4. The oath "Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God" predates our court system and is an English common law carry over (as is much of our legal system). However you don't have to swear to god, you can request an alternative that goes something like: "You affirm all testimony you are about to give will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. This you affirm under penalty of perjury" or something like that.

4. Many of the cultures that have come here to America have added to the mix. Sweet Potatoes are African, brought here with the slaves. Corn is Native American. Many Europeans to this day will not eat corn because it is "pig food". Pizza, spaghetti, tacos, burritos, fried rice, and on and on came here to this country with immigrants and were incorporated into the daily American experience. Much of our language is a mix of many nationalities. Places like Detroit, Baton Roux, Kansas, Oklahoma, and many. many more are cultural mixes.

My only point here is that it is pushy to claim this country and it's origins as Christian. It is also historically inaccurate. I don't have a problem with whatever you want to believe, but if you want to have a constructive debate and arrive at the truth, you have to be committed to being factual.

 

[fallenarch]

Just to clarify item #2 above, Eisenhower put the reference to god back on the money in 1956. It was added during the civil war era and then removed. The full timeline is on the website of the Department of Treasury.

 

[TallTom]

Ethnic foods and musics and the naming of roads aren't what is killing this place. You and I both know this Willie. We can debate semantics of the origins of the Creole vs Her majesty's English til those cows come home. Its nothing more than a deflection away from the core of what this thread was about. The values have shifted in America. If you feel they are more towards your preferences then this is where we can agree to feel vastly different. I am not a religious person at all. I do however feel that the repression of the majority of the religion the country is based on, will serve the country no overall good. Like I said, I'm a dinosaur. My days are numbered here. The swing of the pendulum is where it is now.

Kapernick has made his choice. He has been both challenged by the president and supported because of that challenge. Now we see how it plays out. The fact that Tim Tebow gets squashed or gets no support by the NFL and his teammates, and Kaperknick does, needs to be the problem. One is about race, the other is not. This is the problem.