Sync'd my t-bodies today


omslaw

Michelle owns my Busa
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#1
My bike has been stuttering lately, some popping on decel, and rough idle, so I decided it was time to sync the throttle bodies.

I've never liked the idea of using Mercury Stix; just don't want to chance sucking mercury into the motor!

So, after conversing with Loboboy and MC_Mustang, I knew I was going to use dial gauges. I was going to go out an buy a set of gauges, but then I remembered that I have a couple of vacuum pumps. I don't need the 'pump' part...just the gauge.

So, I set to work, syncing 1&2, 3&4 then 1/2 & 3/4 together. Whole process took about 1/2 hr.

Once I was done...WOW! What a difference! Idle is sooo smooth, no more popping on decel, and the stutter is gone!

I should have done that a long time ago!
 

JINKSTER

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#3
(hogger @ July 28 2006,15:34) show me..show me..show me..

hogger...
vacume gages will do but...i still like the merc stix..cause i "know" they are more accurate...

Here ya go folks...finally.
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1. You're gonna need a manometer (4 bank vacume gage) of some sort..I highly recomend Motion Pro's Mercury Stix..about $79 from Ivan and well worth it as they'll pay for themselves the first time you use them.

2. The vacume hose/manifold as supplied from the factory absolutely suxed to try an remove...like they put'em on using some sort of super adhesive...I wound up having to slice mine off with a razor knife so...for that reason?...I also recommend that you have a couple of feet of 4mm (or 5/32ths) I.D. vacume hose handy before you start...you'll see why..as follows..

Step #1: Remove your seat and raise your tank up on it's prop rod.

Step #2 "Removing the Airbox":

a. Remove the 10mm bolt (threade into the frame) from the front/center of the airbox.


b. Loosen the 2 phillipshead clamp screws (1 on each side) which clamps the rubber boots from the airbox to the throttle bodies..there's only two screws to loosen as each tightens and/or loosens BOTH boot clamps on either side...and you can run'em out good and loose...there's plenty of thread

SYNCH2.jpg


At thios point you may gently wiggle and lift the rear of the airbox to free the rubber boots from the throttle bodies and cock the rear of the airbox to the left for better access to disconnect the following items...as applies...

There are (3) things to disconnect on the underside of the rear of the airbox...

1. "The Vacume Sensor" (by removing the screw as it appears the sensor is supposed to just slide off the tab but mine was so tight it was just as easy to remove the screw rather than risk any breakage) also...don't figure you can just unplug this as you'll need it so the engine can run properly during synching and..

2. "The Crankcase Breather Hose" (located in the center) and..finally?..

3. "The PAIR Supply Hose" on the far right side (if still so equipped as mines been removed where the orange vacume cap is)...as follows..

SYNCH1.jpg


your airbox should now be free to remove except for one last vacume line which goes to your airbox flapper diaphram in the center underside of the airbox..just pull it free and set the airbox to the side to reveal the following...

SYNCH3.jpg


Except For The Far Left Vacume Hose On T-Body #1

Remove all of the vacume hoses from the throttle body nipples by slicing them with a razor knife as they seemed to have some sort of super adhesive on them..then hook up your vacume monitor like so....and...

"NOTE/WARNING": WHEN USING MERCURY STICK SYNCH GAGES DO NOT REV YOUR ENGINE MUCH OVER 4-5K RPMS CAUSE IF YOU DO?...YOU RISK SUXING MERCURY INTO YOUR INTAKE SYSTEM AND YOU WILL GET TO WATCH YOUR ENGINE BLOW BEFORE YOUR VERY EYES AND YOU WON'T HAVE TIME TO EVEN THINK..."OH SHID"

SYNCH4.jpg


There are (3) cad plated (gold) adjustment screws located between the T-Bodies easily identified by a screwhead that will accept either a flat blade or phillipshead screwdriver..be careful not to put any downward pressure as you adjust them as follows...

SYNCH5.jpg


after synching is complete re-connect your vacume lines and sensors and final adjust your idle speed to 1,100-1,200rpms...then button'er up cause...Big Boy?....you're all done.  
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Enjoy and...L8R, Bill.  
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JINKSTER

I Love my Wife!
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#6
which is more accurate jink? Guages or the meter thingy?

hogger...
the merc stix are....no needles...no springs...no micro bushings...just liquid mercury and pure unadulterated physics.

I usta use a bank of four vacume gages...and they're close enough for pratical use buuuut....i took the cure one day when a bud asked me how accurate they are...and i was like.."i dunno but...damn accurate i would imagine"..then?...as a test?..he suggested that i go ahead and achieve perfect synch with the vacume gages and then?..switch the vacume gage hoses around and see if i got the same readings on all gages annnnd..i didn't...if ya want glassy smooth perfection?..merc stix are the way to go.

L8R, Bill.
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runeight

why ask why
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#7
time to order up!

Wonder if I could get one and rent it out to other board members? You know..deposit shipping kind of thing.

hogger...
 

omslaw

Michelle owns my Busa
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#8
I've been told that the Mercury Stix are more accurate...but like I said, I didn't like the thought of even possibly sucking mercury into the motor.

The vacuum gauges I used were close enough for me. I followed Jinkster's guide for the sync. But I first started by installing each gauge on #1 t-body. This gave me a 'reference measurement' between the gauges. The two gauges' reading differed by LESS THAN 1/2 mm!

One issue with dial gauges is that they can be erratic in the reading. That is to say that they register the change in vacuum very quickly. The gauges will actually register the 'pulse' or intake stroke of the cylinder. This 'pulsing' can make it difficult to get an accurate reading.

To solve this problem, I just clamped some vice-grips on the vacuum line and adjusted until the reading was steady; basically, a poor-man's damping valve.
tounge.gif


Like I said, for me it was a night and day difference...and I didn't have to spend $80 on new gauges!
 

JINKSTER

I Love my Wife!
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#10
I've been told that the Mercury Stix are more accurate...but like I said, I didn't like the thought of even possibly sucking mercury into the motor.  

The vacuum gauges I used were close enough for me.  I followed Jinkster's guide for the sync.  But I first started by installing each gauge on #1 t-body.  This gave me a 'reference measurement' between the gauges.  The two gauges' reading differed by LESS THAN 1/2 mm!

One issue with dial gauges is that they can be erratic in the reading.  That is to say that they register the change in vacuum very quickly.  The gauges will actually register the 'pulse' or intake stroke of the cylinder.  This 'pulsing' can make it difficult to get an accurate reading.

To solve this problem, I just clamped some vice-grips on the vacuum line and adjusted until the reading was steady; basically, a poor-man's damping valve.  
tounge.gif


Like I said, for me it was a night and day difference...and I didn't have to spend $80 on new gauges!
yep...forgot all about the "Trying to read the fuzzy, blurry, bouncing vacume gage needle" thing till you mentioned it but....i need to tell you this...restricting the airflow the way you did (with vice grips on the vacume line) is yet another variable you factored in...the thing to do if ya wanna get the "Blurry Bouncing Needle" to clean up is to install a set of "precision restrictors" in-line...and not clamp off the line with vise grips...as that will add to the inaccuracy as well.

But?..any synchings better than no synching (within reason) and it sounds like you're happy with yours so?...rock-on my busa bro and uh..sorry for jumping in here..

L8R, Bill.
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omslaw

Michelle owns my Busa
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#12
I've been told that the Mercury Stix are more accurate...but like I said, I didn't like the thought of even possibly sucking mercury into the motor.

The vacuum gauges I used were close enough for me. I followed Jinkster's guide for the sync. But I first started by installing each gauge on #1 t-body. This gave me a 'reference measurement' between the gauges. The two gauges' reading differed by LESS THAN 1/2 mm!

One issue with dial gauges is that they can be erratic in the reading. That is to say that they register the change in vacuum very quickly. The gauges will actually register the 'pulse' or intake stroke of the cylinder. This 'pulsing' can make it difficult to get an accurate reading.

To solve this problem, I just clamped some vice-grips on the vacuum line and adjusted until the reading was steady; basically, a poor-man's damping valve.
tounge.gif


Like I said, for me it was a night and day difference...and I didn't have to spend $80 on new gauges!
yep...forgot all about the "Trying to read the fuzzy, blurry, bouncing vacume gage needle" thing till you mentioned it but....i need to tell you this...restricting the airflow the way you did (with vice grips on the vacume line) is yet another variable you factored in...the thing to do if ya wanna get the "Blurry Bouncing Needle" to clean up is to install a set of "precision restrictors" in-line...and not clamp off the line with vise grips...as that will add to the inaccuracy as well.

But?..any synchings better than no synching (within reason) and it sounds like you're happy with yours so?...rock-on my busa bro and uh..sorry for jumping in here..

L8R, Bill.
cool.gif
No prob, Jinks - jump in anytime; your wisdom is always welcome!

I may decide to get brave and try the Stix...just nervous.
 

mzrsq

Busaless
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#13
So how many miles, or how long a bike sits or what actually dictates when you should consider syncing the bodies? Are they synced true from the factory or can they be off from the get-go? Just curious and interested.
 

omslaw

Michelle owns my Busa
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#14
Well, I should have done it MUCH sooner! I have almost 16,000 miles on my bike and it's been running rough for a while.
 

JINKSTER

I Love my Wife!
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#15
man....you can get away with using one gage for a poor mans synching thingy but i certainly wouldn't advise it...and here's several reasons why..

1. From cold start to fully warmed up there is a huge dif in the vacume signals...so?..if you're gonna achieve any reasonable level of accuracy at all?..using just "one vacume gage"?...your engine temps better be consistance each and every time..also?..

2. I synch at both idle and 4K rpms (and yes...it does change...it's a mechanical/positional variance in the butterflys)..and then i adjust to balance out that delta between the two...so that it isn't smooth and vibe free "just at idle"...annnd...

3. You won't appreciate having to spend 4x's as long getting the job done...especially as the engine heat builds and the frame/surroundings starts getting hot and finally?..

4. A synch job usually runs about $75-$100 pending shop...where a set of motion pro merc stix can be had for like $70...and they'll more than pay for themselves the first time you use'em.

sory genbts but i gotta say it like it is...trying to get away with using just one vacume gage is penny wise and pound foolish and a real ham & egg way of getting the job...well....almost...."done right".

No disrespect intended omslaw but i would urge against the "One Vacume Gage" method...oh?...if they're waaaaay outta synch it'll probably be an improvement buuuut..it ain't the real deal...no how....no way.

Sorry annd, L8R, Bill.
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MC MUSTANG

Peace Keeper or Ban Hammer-it's up to you; IDMBT#9
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#16
I agree with Jinks on this one, it was a pain by doing it with one gauge - a pain but not impossible. Is it a little off, probably, but it is a heck of sa lot better than when I started. I was messing with my vice grips as a home dampener also, but then I found it easier to just use one gauge, waited till the bike is hot and used the Throttle meister to hold the bike at 3500, kept the readings constant and I didn't have to mess with revving the engine. Some day, I will be looking to get a set of stix..., but if you don't have 'em.... It ain't the right or best way - Jinkster is dead on that one. But if you need to get an improvement... you'll definately see one. Great post Omar and Jinkster... you guys are gonna put mechanics outta business! Ha!
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loboboy

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#17
I've been told that the Mercury Stix are more accurate...but like I said, I didn't like the thought of even possibly sucking mercury into the motor.  

The vacuum gauges I used were close enough for me.  I followed Jinkster's guide for the sync.  But I first started by installing each gauge on #1 t-body.  This gave me a 'reference measurement' between the gauges.  The two gauges' reading differed by LESS THAN 1/2 mm!

One issue with dial gauges is that they can be erratic in the reading.  That is to say that they register the change in vacuum very quickly.  The gauges will actually register the 'pulse' or intake stroke of the cylinder.  This 'pulsing' can make it difficult to get an accurate reading.

To solve this problem, I just clamped some vice-grips on the vacuum line and adjusted until the reading was steady; basically, a poor-man's damping valve.  
tounge.gif


Like I said, for me it was a night and day difference...and I didn't have to spend $80 on new gauges!
yep...forgot all about the "Trying to read the fuzzy, blurry, bouncing vacume gage needle" thing till you mentioned it but....i need to tell you this...restricting the airflow the way you did (with vice grips on the vacume line) is yet another variable you factored in...the thing to do if ya wanna get the "Blurry Bouncing Needle" to clean up is to install a set of "precision restrictors" in-line...and not clamp off the line with vise grips...as that will add to the inaccuracy as well.

But?..any synchings better than no synching (within reason) and it sounds like you're happy with yours so?...rock-on my busa bro and uh..sorry for jumping in here..

L8R, Bill.
cool.gif
In Omslaw's defense here, the gauges will work just as well as the Mercury. As for accuracy, I don't believe the mercury is any better IMO. The mercury units still have a pulse restrictor at the top of the glass or plastic tubes so this is not where you innacurracy comes from. It is true that pulling the mercury is probably a more accurate way to measure it but you are still restricting the vacuum pulses.
Also it is not worth the hassle or danger of having a mercury filled unit laying around, especially if you have industious type children around.

I personally use a 4 gauge setup and have no problems at all. I even tried a mercury set after I had used my gauges and in my experiences there were no differences between the 2. My next plan is to get a set of Liquid filled and certified gauges and use those. I will post a write up about it after I try them both the certified and normal gauges and see the difference.

Jink's don't think I am trying to be difficult but I have seen and witnessed people suck mercury into their engine from the Motionpro's setup, that is why I highly suggest the gauges.
For a seasoned mech like yourself they will work fine but for the average Joe out there, if their throttle bodies are way off the mercury can and will get sucked into the eingine before they know it happened.

So for my final point, if you use the mercury sticks just be careful and pay attention when you first start the bike up and make sure the mercury does not go all the way to the top of the stick.
 

JINKSTER

I Love my Wife!
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#18
I've been told that the Mercury Stix are more accurate...but like I said, I didn't like the thought of even possibly sucking mercury into the motor.  

The vacuum gauges I used were close enough for me.  I followed Jinkster's guide for the sync.  But I first started by installing each gauge on #1 t-body.  This gave me a 'reference measurement' between the gauges.  The two gauges' reading differed by LESS THAN 1/2 mm!

One issue with dial gauges is that they can be erratic in the reading.  That is to say that they register the change in vacuum very quickly.  The gauges will actually register the 'pulse' or intake stroke of the cylinder.  This 'pulsing' can make it difficult to get an accurate reading.

To solve this problem, I just clamped some vice-grips on the vacuum line and adjusted until the reading was steady; basically, a poor-man's damping valve.  
tounge.gif


Like I said, for me it was a night and day difference...and I didn't have to spend $80 on new gauges!
yep...forgot all about the "Trying to read the fuzzy, blurry, bouncing vacume gage needle" thing till you mentioned it but....i need to tell you this...restricting the airflow the way you did (with vice grips on the vacume line) is yet another variable you factored in...the thing to do if ya wanna get the "Blurry Bouncing Needle" to clean up is to install a set of "precision restrictors" in-line...and not clamp off the line with vise grips...as that will add to the inaccuracy as well.

But?..any synchings better than no synching (within reason) and it sounds like you're happy with yours so?...rock-on my busa bro and uh..sorry for jumping in here..

L8R, Bill.
cool.gif
In Omslaw's defense here, the gauges will work just as well as the Mercury. As for accuracy, I don't believe the mercury is any better IMO. The mercury units still have a pulse restrictor at the top of the glass or plastic tubes so this is not where you innacurracy comes from. It is true that pulling the mercury is probably a more accurate way to measure it but you are still restricting the vacuum pulses.
Also it is not worth the hassle or danger of having a mercury filled unit laying around, especially if you have industious type children around.

I personally use a 4 gauge setup and have no problems at all. I even tried a mercury set after I had used my gauges and in my experiences there were no differences between the 2. My next plan is to get a set of Liquid filled and certified gauges and use those. I will post a write up about it after I try them both the certified and normal gauges and see the difference.

Jink's don't think I am trying to be difficult but I have seen and witnessed people suck mercury into their engine from the Motionpro's setup, that is why I highly suggest the gauges.
For a seasoned mech like yourself they will work fine but for the average Joe out there, if their throttle bodies are way off the mercury can and will get sucked into the eingine before they know it happened.

So for my final point, if you use the mercury sticks just be careful and pay attention when you first start the bike up and make sure the mercury does not go all the way to the top of the stick.
np..you're entitled to your opinion...but regardless...the merc stix are more accurate...period....as vacume gages rely on resticting orifics as well...and are fairly precision...just like the in-line restrictors on the merc stix sooo...apples to apples there...but where it ain't apples too apples?...is watching that fuzzy azz needle flurry about spinning on mylar micro bushings and held too zero with springs...4  different springs...which all may or may not be of the same tension...where the merc stix are a pure physics vacume pull...annnd?...a far cleaner reading instrument...

SYNCH5.jpg


and anybody who reads the basic instructioins and precautions and still sux liquid mercury into their engine?...needs to be signing up for some sorta dork outreach program.
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and not even riding let alone working on motorcycles...and looking at it in that respect?...the merc stix are like a fail safe system...they kill the engine before the dork kills himself.
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L8R, Bill.
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<!--EDIT|JINKSTER
Reason for Edit: None given...|1154212756 -->

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#19
So how bad is it if you suck mercury into your engine?
I know it's bad to ingest. Many years ago we used to play with it in school. We would rub it on coins and it would coat them and make them shinny.
Does it put a coating on the cylinders and mess up the rings?
 

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