Starter problems

jumjum01

jumjum01

Registered
My 2001 hayabusa has problems with the starter clutch not engaging from time to time. I bought a new Vince clutch on ebay. When clutch will not engage, I can disassemble, clean parts, assemble, and it will work again for some time. As you can see on picture there is some silver shavings cleaned for inside the pullywheel (big radius). So it seems clutch might be slipping on the big radius, but why? Anyone have a solution to this problem?

Also the bike sometimes cranck many seconds when warm before start, when cold it fires right up..

starter clutch.jpg
 
hi from this side of the pond :)

I suspect that from time to time the battery voltage is not sufficient to turn the starter fast enough, which could lead to the freewheel slipping.

ergo - measure the battery voltage if this issue occurs again just to be able to rule out this error.
(same hint for the warm/hot-start-issue)

where the metal shavings could come from i have no idea at the moment.
I have not yet found anything like this on / in the hayamotoren that I had open.

btw
are you able to read german? then see my origin homepage
if not use this link to get it translated by google.

on my homepage i have collected various problems and their solutions, going beyond the normal instructions.

and if you (we, the .org) find out what issue you really have and how it was solved tell me please and i will mention it at my homepage by spending a separate page because the silver-shavings-issue makes me very curious.

question:
how far away from the geman border do you live?

i ask because i heard that even the prices for spare parts are horrible high in denmark
and
if the distance isn´t toooooo big you could use the art.-numbers from the gen1 - microfiches to order parts in germany and "transfer" ;) them then back home while a short "saturday-afternoon-trip" or so.
 
Guten tag :-) Thanks for the tips and link to your homepage. I can see that you have spend a lot of time putting it together.. awesome
I have a new valta battery in the bike and battery voltage is 12.8V, which is should be 100% charged.
Also i use 24V starting system with secondary battery, so crancking fast is no problem, even with 1397ccm and 12.8:1 static compression. I also enabled the "bigbore low rpm cranck" feature in ecueditor, but it made no difference when starting engine when hot.
I guess next step is to buy a "complete" starter clutch assembly, and not just the one way clutch.
 
jumjum01 said:
Guten tag :-) Thanks for the tips and link to your homepage. I can see that you have spend a lot of time putting it together.. awesome
I have a new valta battery in the bike and battery voltage is 12.8V, which is should be 100% charged.
Also i use 24V starting system with secondary battery, so crancking fast is no problem, even with 1397ccm and 12.8:1 static compression. I also enabled the "bigbore low rpm cranck" feature in ecueditor, but it made no difference when starting engine when hot.
I guess next step is to buy a "complete" starter clutch assembly, and not just the one way clutch.
Click to expand...
You should update the complete starter and gear to an 03 and up, and there will be no more issues
 
hmmmmm

how old is the starter motor?
perhaps it fails when hot.
the winding stretches (only) a little and then it has a kind of break in one single cable so that the power is no longer available.
the same phenomenon is known from the old ignition coils when they get warm / hot.
(and i seemingly have that winding-stretch-issue at the stator of a gen1 - cold full charging at 14.2 volts, when motor hot only 12.7 volts - very confusing)

so to test the starter motor´s behavior, i would try a different motor - at the same high temperature at the motor.
means : mount it, then let the engine run 15 minutes, use kill switch, and re-try again.

but pay attention - the ´03-´07 motor has a long toothed shaft with a length of around 29 mm - the ´99-´02, on the other hand, is only 22 mm long.
 
GIXERHP said:
If it's not an oem one there is your problem
Some of the aftermarkets one wont start a stock motor
Click to expand...
It's an aftermarket one way clutch (Vince). I took it apart this morning and discovered that some of the rollers did not move freely in the bearing. I then took the old oem bearing housing and put the aftermaket rollers in and it works fine for now. I guess that if the rollers and too tight a fit, they will not move and engage when crancking. If this does not work, I will buy a complete new 03+ OEM starter clutch.
 
Berlin Germany said:
hmmmmm

how old is the starter motor?
perhaps it fails when hot.
the winding stretches (only) a little and then it has a kind of break in one single cable so that the power is no longer available.
the same phenomenon is known from the old ignition coils when they get warm / hot.
(and i seemingly have that winding-stretch-issue at the stator of a gen1 - cold full charging at 14.2 volts, when motor hot only 12.7 volts - very confusing)

so to test the starter motor´s behavior, i would try a different motor - at the same high temperature at the motor.
means : mount it, then let the engine run 15 minutes, use kill switch, and re-try again.

but pay attention - the ´03-´07 motor has a long toothed shaft with a length of around 29 mm - the ´99-´02, on the other hand, is only 22 mm long.
Click to expand...
I have a brand new starter motor with long shaft. I also upgraded starter gear and cover.
Bike is crancking fast and fine, even when hot.. but it takes many seconds before it starts up.
I have put the air box temperature sensor outside the frame to see if it starts better when hot, just as an experiment.
I will look into ignition coils, mabye measure resistance while hot.
Mabye pulling one injector and one spark plug to see if there is spark and fuel while crancking when hot...
 
jumjum01 said:
(...) but it takes many seconds before it starts up. (...)
Click to expand...

at my ´00 (with tank internal pump) i have the same symptome when engine hot after 30 or more km / mi

if the time between pushing the starter and motor-start is not longer than (felt) 1-3 seconds and afterwards the engine runs fine my eperiances of 12 years riding the ´00 say that that´s usual.

our old ladies need sometimes, when hot, a "second" longer to get alive - i personally don´t worry about that behavior at all :)
mine - unreproducible by will - sometimes needs even some 5-6 secs of cranking before she starts running.
what shalls :)
she runs pretty nice and takes at country roads arround 6-7.5 liters / 100 km depending how hard i pull the cable ;)
 
Last edited:
Berlin Germany said:
hey :hello: denmark
you already got the gen1 manual ´99-´02 ?
if not yet follow this link and download all ;)
Click to expand...
Thanks...
Regarding your website, I read about the constant speed jerk (KFR). My busa did it a lot when i bought it. Unifying ignition maps to 5/6 gear and lowering IAP/TPS switching point from 11 to 3% removed 90% of the jerkiness. Bike was horrible to drive, almost sold it again because of the jerk.
 
Berlin Germany said:
at my ´00 (with tank internal pump) i have the same symptome when engine hot after 30 or more km / mi

if the time between pushing the starter and motor-start is not longer than (felt) 1-3 seconds and afterwards the engine runs fine my eperiances of 12 years riding the ´00 say that that´s usual.

our old ladies need sometimes, when hot, a "second" longer to get alive - i personally don´t worry about that behavior at all :)
mine - unreproducible by will - sometimes needs even some 5-6 secs of cranking before she starts running.
what shalls :)
she runs pretty nice and takes at country roads arround 6-7.5 liters / 100 km depending how hard i pull the cable ;)
Click to expand...
Frank, my '99 Busa is the same. it starts really quickly when cold but takes a bit longer when hot and it doesn't help that the charging system is a bit weak, 13.2 to 13.5v at cruise speeds, sometimes when hot starting after a 30 minute break at a cafe, the cranking speed is slow for the first few revolutions, then speeds up and starts after about 2 to 3 seconds.
My fuel consumption at cruise (110 to 120kmh) is around 18 to 19 kms to the liter so a little better than yours :)
 
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