speaking of drug tests....

[diesel]

I get them all the time. And I believe it's a violation of my constitutional right as an American against unlawful search and siezure. Cut and dry.
Read it.


The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.



This means someone is supposed to PROVE in a court of law, they have PROBABLE CUASE , AND have a written court order with your name on it describing in particular what they have that probable cuase to search you for.



We are being stripped slowly of our rights and not doing **** about it. Read Bush'e Patriot act II. VERY, very scary. For 1 thing, you can be arrested today for being a terrorist, shipped overseas and jailed and tortured. No probable cuase-no trial-no nothing.

 

[V8N3T]

I agree with the Patriot Act II, I believe we need to put our foots down and let it be known that terrorism or harboring it will not be tolerated. That's one thing our president it letting be known, I agree with that. I couldn't see myself on the other end of the chain, so I support it 100%.

Now if they would just let our Marines do what they need to do in the war zones, and get the fck*ng media out of there...and all these journalists trying to make a name for them selves out....things would be different.

 

[MoosesBusa]

Sorry about your luck. I am a firm believer in Drug testing. I like the idea. I have MY employees tested. While it is your constitutional right to not subject yourself to the drug testing, It is also MY constitutional right to not hire you and/or Fire you for not taking / failing the test. I pay thousands of dollars per year for insurance coverage and Drug testing has lowered my rates. I don't care what you do on your own time. When your on MY time I do. It has been my expereince that drug users, Just like alcoholics, are undependable and slower to think and react. Not bashing not hating, Just stating. You may be the exception to the rule as I don't know you.
The bottom line is that Drug use is illegal. Period. I can't see the problem with drug testing as long as you are not required to pay for it. It is your employers responsibility. I also don't have a problem with face scanning. If Law enforcement can apprehend criminals walking around by face scanning, Go for it!
Before you start bashing and flaming please realize that I am back woods and old fashioned. I have a if ya screw up fess up and deal with it attitude. I don't believe in hiding or changing the name of something to make somebody feel better. I'm a call it like ya see it kinda guy. A retard is a retard. calling him anything other than that is just gonna confuse him. He doesn't have a problem with it, why do you?
The solution to your problem is pretty simple. Don't break the law and you'll have nothing to worry about. You have the right to your privacy and freedom to live your life as you wish WITHIN THE LAW. That's the part people forget about

 

[GSXcite]

(V8N3T @ Oct. 21 2006,15:35) I agree with the Patriot Act II, I believe we need to put our foots down and let it be known that terrorism or harboring it will not be tolerated. That's one thing our president it letting be known, I agree with that. I couldn't see myself on the other end of the chain, so I support it 100%.

Now if they would just let our Marines do what they need to do in the war zones, and get the fck*ng media out of there...and all these journalists trying to make a name for them selves out....things would be different.  

That my friend, is exactly how us Viet Nam vets felt about our trip to Asia!

 

[StuckInBaghdad]

(diesel @ Oct. 21 2006,15:24) I get them all the time. And I believe it's a violation of my constitutional right as an American against unlawful search and siezure. Cut and dry.
Read it.  


The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.



This means someone is supposed to PROVE in a court of law, they have PROBABLE CUASE ,  AND  have a written court order with your name on it describing in particular what they have that probable cuase to search you for.



We are being stripped slowly of our rights and not doing **** about it. Read Bush'e Patriot act II. VERY, very scary. For 1 thing, you can be arrested today for being a terrorist, shipped overseas and jailed and tortured. No probable cuase-no trial-no nothing.

I agree with you on the drug testing. It's no differant than randomly pulling people over in thier car/bike and strip searching them. NO probable cause in random drud test, hints the word random.

I also agree with Moosesbusa, when an employee is at work he is on the employer's time. Unfortunetly, drug testing does not test whats for what you are doing at work, it tests for what you did the night/week/month before, on YOUR OWN time. That is why employers should not have the right to drug test, now sobriety test...I would have no problem with that, you should not be at work high/drunk.

 

[StuckInBaghdad]

And it is not an employer's right/job to make sure all their employees are good little law following people. That would be like getting fired for getting a speeding ticket over the weekend, I think we might all be out of a job if that were the case!

 

[fasttoys1]

I've had several business. You want to blame some one, blame the lawyers. Moosesbusa saves money on his ins. for drug testing because the Ins. Co. have had to pay out big bucks due to lawyers. Oh wait, maybe it was the person who came in to work high and caused the problem. Oh wait, maybe it's a personal responsiblity issue, it's very hard to make some one take responsiblity for ones actions. Very hard to fire anyone now, and it's almost impossible to take someone out back and beat some sense into them any more. So I blame the lawyers, and most people involved in making new laws are lawyers so there you go. just my thoughts

 

[NCBusa2001]

(StuckInBaghdad @ Oct. 21 2006,17:22) Unfortunetly, drug testing does not test whats for what you are doing at work, it tests for what you did the night/week/month before, on YOUR OWN time. That is why employers should not have the right to drug test, now sobriety test...I would have no problem with that, you should not be at work high/drunk.

1000+

Chris

 

[WuzzaCBXRider]

(NCBusa2001 @ Oct. 21 2006,16:53)

(StuckInBaghdad @ Oct. 21 2006,17:22) Unfortunetly, drug testing does not test whats for what you are doing at work, it tests for what you did the night/week/month before, on YOUR OWN time. That is why employers should not have the right to drug test, now sobriety test...I would have no problem with that, you should not be at work high/drunk.

1000+

Chris

What he said...and the so called patriot act SUCKS! as any true American could tell you. Now is NOT the time to trim back our constitutional rights.

 

[monster]

(StuckInBaghdad @ Oct. 21 2006,20:22)

(diesel @ Oct. 21 2006,15:24) I get them all the time. And I believe it's a violation of my constitutional right as an American against unlawful search and siezure. Cut and dry.
Read it.  


The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.



This means someone is supposed to PROVE in a court of law, they have PROBABLE CUASE ,  AND  have a written court order with your name on it describing in particular what they have that probable cuase to search you for.



We are being stripped slowly of our rights and not doing **** about it. Read Bush'e Patriot act II. VERY, very scary. For 1 thing, you can be arrested today for being a terrorist, shipped overseas and jailed and tortured. No probable cuase-no trial-no nothing.

I agree with you on the drug testing. It's no differant than randomly pulling people over in thier car/bike and strip searching them. NO probable cause in random drud test, hints the word random.

I also agree with Moosesbusa, when an employee is at work he is on the employer's time. Unfortunetly, drug testing does not test whats for what you are doing at work, it tests for what you did the night/week/month before, on YOUR OWN time. That is why employers should not have the right to drug test, now sobriety test...I would have no problem with that, you should not be at work high/drunk.

+1. Well said.

 

[VaBusa]

'Eh, gotta play devil's advocate here...

Please...companies pay YOU to do a job...if they have a set of rules and you have to follow 'em, that's part of the job...if it's not okay with your lifestyle, then self-employment is the way to go...jeez, I hate drug tests just as much as the next guy, but I've got to say, I don't expect my employer to allow me to be a avid marijuana smoker off hours and able to do my job M-F with complete confidence...it's their rules...if you fugg something up while on the job, oh, lets say you crash while driving the elementary school bus.  I kind of doubt "but I smoked it last night!" will really stand in court...if you use drugs and it's against the policy of your workplace, you become a huge liability...

And I can't help but mention the sects of society that will gladly jump on YOUR band wagon...

"I just like looking at kiddie porn, and it's in my own home" or Google NAMBLA and hear all about those freaks whining for their freedom of speech...I could go on and on...if something's illegal, it has to fall under some set of rules or society suffers...

...but maybe that's just my take on things...  

 

[Wag]

The constitution only protects you from the government. It does not affect private relationships such as those you have with other private citizens or your employer. When it comes to private associations, the rules are whatever you and that person wish to make of it. That's why we have contract law.

That's why the amendments do not apply when you're talking about your relationship with your employer. Most employers will have an employment agreement and their own set of rules which govern what you have to do to qualify as an employee. Constitutional law will not apply.

As a matter of fact, private property rules apply too. It's the same way your right to your home is governed. In essence, government has very little influence on what you're allowed to do inside the walls of your own home. There IS a little but VERY little. Meth labs are not allowed, for example. But you have the right to kick a guy out of your home for ANY reason and the moment you ask them to leave and they do not comply, they are trespassing.

Same with your employer. If you don't comply with his rules, including drug testing, speaking of politics or religion on the job, surfing for porn on the net, etc. etc., they have the right to fire you.

--Wag--

 

[tbonebusa]

(Wag @ Oct. 23 2006,11:56) The constitution only protects you from the government.  It does not affect private relationships such as those you have with other private citizens or your employer.  When it comes to private associations, the rules are whatever you and that person wish to make of it.  That's why we have contract law.

That's why the amendments do not apply when you're talking about your relationship with your employer.  Most employers will have an employment agreement and their own set of rules which govern what you have to do to qualify as an employee.  Constitutional law will not apply.  

As a matter of fact, private property rules apply too.  It's the same way your right to your home is governed.  In essence, government has very little influence on what you're allowed to do inside the walls of your own home.  There IS a little but VERY little.  Meth labs are not allowed, for example.  But you have the right to kick a guy out of your home for ANY reason and the moment you ask them to leave and they do not comply, they are trespassing.  

Same with your employer.  If you don't comply with his rules, including drug testing, speaking of politics or religion on the job, surfing for porn on the net, etc. etc., they have the right to fire you.  

--Wag--

Great point, Wag.....the government and or police can't just force you to submit to a random test, which is the way the Constitution spells it out to me. Your civil rights are protected by the Cons....but employee/employer relationships would surely be a different set of issues, would they not?

 

[Over_Easy]

If we get in a car accident (non-hospitalized) driving a company car we are required to get a drugtest ASAP due to liability issues.

 

[Charlesbusa]

You are not forced to give a drug test.  You have a choice, keep your job and get tested or quit.  Your constitutional right has not been violated.

If everyone quit when they were up for a drug test, then drug tests wouldn't be required because there aren't any employees.

Bottom line is the vast majority of us have no problem with drug tests and think they are a good thing.

 

[thepushercg]

i have no problem with drug test, there random at work, the only people at work that have a problem are the drug users. now this is how it is where i work, do not know about other places. plus at work if you fail they will work with you once to get clean. fail the second time and your gone. also in tennessee there is a right to work law . basically you can get fired for anything and any reason and there is nothing you can legally do about it. this according to our company attonery. now that part i have a problem with.

 

[heavybusa]

you sign a waiver of those rights at most jobs.

 

[Jim_Dandy]

It's a decent practice, and I can say that. I've been "randomed" five times in the past eight months. While nobody else in the 20 man crew has had a single one.

But I've kept my job each time.

 

[BigmanZ]

(StuckInBaghdad @ Oct. 21 2006,17:27) And it is not an employer's right/job to make sure all their employees are good little law following people. That would be like getting fired for getting a speeding ticket over the weekend, I think we might all be out of a job if that were the case!

And just like you drinking before work, on your own time, then coming to work and getting fired for being drunk.....the test shows if you are taking drugs and coming to work potentially high.

Even if you aren't currently high, drugs still change how you react and respond to situations. And it's that fact that makes you a hazard to the workplace if you are doing drugs. Employer might not have the right to make sure you are following the law, but they do have the responsibility to make sure their employees are safe while at work.

 

[BigmanZ]

(VaBusa @ Oct. 23 2006,11:36) ...if you fugg something up while on the job, oh, lets say you crash while driving the elementary school bus.  I kind of doubt "but I smoked it last night!" will really stand in court...if you use drugs and it's against the policy of your workplace, you become a huge liability...

Like when I was working at Fredmeyers, loading some furniture into an elderly lady's car...when one of the back freight guys misses me with the forklift going full speed as he comes out of the loading dock.

Missed me by 2 inches. If he had been 4 inches over I would gotten impailed through the back on the front fork and the 80 year old woman would of been smashed into her car. He was smoking weed before his shift and somehow it made sense to him to go 60 down the back isle way on the timber forklift, a machine that at 6' 7" and 320# requires me to step 'up' into to operate. Oh did I mention the freight cart I was holding, usually find them in lumber stores for moving sheets of plywood, got ripped out of my hands and cleared 3 parking islands before coming to a stop before it could go through the windows of the Holywood Video on the other side of the parking lot?

Ya. Drugs are bad. Sad thing is, I told my supervisor and got a laugh and a 'Ya right, that would never happen!'....took the lady making a complaint to the store director for anything to happen....and she didn't complain about almost being killed  

Oh no...she complained about the guy saying 'F you' for me getting in his way with my loading cart...and yes he was immidiatly fired. To this day I wonder if it was for almost killing somebody or for swearing in front of a customer...