Some newbie questions

kdawg31337

Registered
I haven't posted in a while as nothing motorcycle/busa related has happened to me in a while, but I was in Phuket, Thailand for a bit, and new events have been added to my life story.

To be quick, I essentially made a very bad decision to rent a motorcycle while I was there for various reasons the least of which is I've only ridden motorcycles for very little periods of time and it was 250cc's at most. I don't even have my own motorcycle. There are other reasons which I won't get into as I figure I will be horribly flamed for them.

However, I've returned it, and nothing bad happened, for which I am quite thankful. The bike was (supposedly) a 600cc v-twin Honda cruiser. I'm also using this experience to ask some questions:

1) The bike seemed to completely lack any pickup. Granted it was a big bike with 2 passangers, and seemed decently old, but it still took way too much effort to get up to speed. Is this normal?

2) Everywhere on the site I see people impressed by touching a knee to the ground. Now I didn't do that, but the foot pegs definitely scraped the ground a few times when I was riding even if I wasn't going particularly fast (Phuket is a curvy mountain road area). Is this really such a difficult thing to do?

3) Will a 600cc sportbike provide similar performance? I'm looking into a first bike and really want to know what to get. The 250cc I rode was dead slow, and this Honda wasn't too much of an improvement. I'd like a recommendation on a first bike essentially.
 

Charlesbusa

Used to be a SoCal Busa
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When you scrape pegs or other hard parts you are at the limit of the bike in stock form.  By leaning off the bike and using your knee, as a feeler for how far over you are, you can turn faster/sharper than sitting upright in the seat.  Leaning off the bike lowers the bike's center of gravity among other things
A modern 600cc, like a GSXR600, is much faster than a 4 stroke 250cc.



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kdawg31337

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Thanks for the input...I'm definitely aware a 600 would beat the pants off of a 250cc. I'm saying I thought the 600 was slow as well.
 

hydrabusa

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it depends on what kind of 600...
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BusaWhipped

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Thanks for the input...I'm definitely aware a 600 would beat the pants off of a 250cc. I'm saying I thought the 600 was slow as well.
I guess it depends on what you want to do with it and what your definition of slow is. If you are doing alot of tight twisties, the Gixer 600 is a geat bike for that. If you are drag racing, just get a Busa.
 

TROUBLED WINE

Registered
The bike was (supposedly) a 600cc v-twin Honda cruiser.
For starters, you cannot compare this:

600cc V-Twin Honda Cruiser



To this:

600cc Suzuki Sportbike


Two completely different riding styles and handling characteristics.

You don't "drag a knee" on a cruiser, they aren't very good in the twisties and generally aren't very fast either.

Sport bikes have the rider in a completely different postion and allow him to move around to change the weight distribution and center of gravity. They're very good in the twisties where you can basically dance with them and they weigh about half as much making them much quicker. The engines they run, although the same size, are configured much different and have completely different torque and horsepower profiles.

If you're planning on riding a sportbike and looking for a first one, I'm not much of an expert on that, but I'd say the GSX600R might be a place to start. The wrong place to start is a V-Twin cruiser if you're looking to get a comparative riding style.
 

runeight

why ask why
Donating Member
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I agree with the above. However, a Suzuki 750 would be a better choice for just a little more money.

hogger...

GSXR750BK5.jpg
 

kdawg31337

Registered
I guess I need to ride a sportbike to really know what the difference is, but here is my main question now, that I've asked before, but maybe this new experience changes the advice. The difference between the Busa and the bike I rode was about 20 lbs in dry weight. Riding around in the twisties here on the cruiser really wasn't a big deal, I never dropped it, and never felt like I couldn't handle it if it started to tip (which it did as I had to park on fairly steep hills sideways). I also never felt like I abused the throttle and never tried to push the bike too far. Having said this, if the recommendation is a 750 cc gixxer, is it really that dumb a thing to do to move up to the busa which is only $2000 more? I figure I'm just as liable to kill myself, and I really don't feel the big bike fear anymore.
 

AlohaBusa

Registered
you really cant compare two differnt style bikes just because they have the same engine displacement. A 600 cc cruiser and 600 cc sport bike will produce extremely different results. Not to mention when one is a Vtwin and the other an inline 4 motor design.

Your last question about moving straight to the Busa, I think, it is up to you but I dont think you understand why most will give you a big CAUTION. It is not the size of the bike. Meaning, it is not how long, wide or heavy it is. It is the POWER and TORQUE it puts out. This is why many will say start with a bike that is a little more tame until you get experienced and then consider moving up.

If you were deciding between a liter sportbike and the Busa, I think it would just be preference and the bikes handling characterstics. But a 600 or the 750 Gixxer will not be in the same ball park when comparing power and torque.

In the end, I think it is your decision. Although I have been riding since 15 years old, I have went the last 10 years without a bike. This past February I bought a Busa. It has taken me a while to get accustomed to it, and still have a ways to go. It is your hard earned dollar, so get what you want. So, what ever you get, you need to tell yourself that you will ride within your capabilities and let yourself gain experience. If you are one to take any challenge that comes from those who road race, or ride with others that will push you to go faster and tighter in turns than you are capable, you may not want to get a Busa first. Without patience and respect, I do think the Busa will kill you quicker than just about any bike out there. All bikes go fast enough to kill, but the untamed Busa will do it faster than a blink of an eye. As I said at the beginning, you cant go rent a 1300cc cruiser either and use that as an indicator on whether you could handle a Busa's power. There is just no comparison.

Bikes are not the causes of deaths on the street, it is unforseen obstacles (i.e. cars, debris just around the corner, etc) and rider error (i.e. riding beyond their capabilities, going 150 mph on public streets, too fast for conditions, etc).

That is my $.02 or maybe $.05.

Good luck and let us know what you decide and of course be prepared to show pics.
 

TROUBLED WINE

Registered
I guess I need to ride a sportbike to really know what the difference is
Absolutely!! Go rent a sportbike with an inline 4 motor.

Driving a V-Twin vs. sportbike is the difference between driving a bulldozer and a Mercedes coupe.

The throttle response and where and how the engine makes power are at two completely oposite ends of the spectrum.

A V-Twin has all low RPM torque, it will launch you off the line with authority and get you up to speed quick, but then level out. Cracking the throttle wide open at speed does little more than slowly begin to increase your speed.

An inline 4 is a dog at low RPM, it can barely get out of it's own way in the 1200-3000 RPM range, unlike the V-Twin which sticks you in the seat down there, however, cracking the throttle wide open on a sportbike at speed doesn't just cause it to gently accelerate past the car in front of you it causes an immediate 4000 RPM jump in motor speed and picks up the front wheel pointing to the sky. In less than 2 seconds you'll go from 60 MPH to 120Mph.

In otherwords, if you accidently "goose" the throttle on a V-Twin at high RPM, pretty much nothing will happen quickly, the bike will give a tiny lurch foward. Have that happen on a sportbike and you'll be off in the bushes or sliding down the highway on your butt watching the bike wheelie away from you.

To answer your question; if you're pretty confident in your abilities to control motorized machines in traffic and have some serious saddle time on motorcycles, getting a Busa shouldn't be *that* big of a deal. But based on your questions, I would definitely recommend borrowing or renting a 750cc or greater sportbike to see the difference. It's two completely different riding styles and personalities.
 

Aquaman

Banned Permanently By MC Mustang
+1000 alohabusa.....
It never hurts to take a safety course,and yes time in the saddle helps a lot.
You have to know your limits and respect the Busa for its power.
I would get the bike that your heart desires,and dont be a dummy on it.
If you are meant to die on a motorcycle,I really dont think it matters which one it is....
I have been riding for many years,I had a dream years ago of getting killed on a bike, (dont ask me what kind it was)it was so real that I woke up and didn't believe I was even alive.

To this day,I dont think about it even happening,the thought never ever enters my mind of even being in an accident because if it did,I would be do dang scared to ride it!!!
 

kdawg31337

Registered
A V-Twin has all low RPM torque, it will launch you off the line with authority and get you up to speed quick, but then level out. Cracking the throttle wide open at speed does little more than slowly begin to increase your speed.
I can certainly agree with the second part of that with the throttle at speed. I twisted that thing as far as it would go and unless I downshifted at least 2 gears it would do nothing. I did try to get it going quickly from a stop at one point though and even then I didn't feel it accelerated very fast. I just really expected a lot more from 600cc's moving up from a 250. In that sense, I don't want to go out and buy a 750 cc to go and be gravely disappointed in performance. I'm leaving here in a few hours actually, and though I could've rented a sportbike I didn't for convinience reasons.

My dilemma now is, I need to go out and find a 750cc sportbike to ride knowing nobody that has one, and I highly doubt a dealer is going to let me do a test drive with little more than a beginner MSF course and a license.

Any advice for that issue?



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TIMMYDUCK

Head Woodchuck
Donating Member
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I highly doubt a dealer is going to let me do a test drive with little more than a beginner MSF course and a license.

Any advice for that issue?
If you have a motorcycle license, sure they will.
I don't know where in Mass you are, but very few dealers in New England, if any will let you demo-ride new sportbikes.
The only dealer I know is Canton Cycles on Rt 44 in Winsted, Ct.
There you can compare the whole Triumph line any day of the week.
And the new 675 is a blast.
 

Leo

Donating Member
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with little more than a beginner MSF course and a license.

but I was in Phuket, Thailand...
You will be very surprised by what a 600cc-750cc sportbike can do... I would NOT reccomend going bigger for your first real bike unless you have a death wish...

BTW, how do you pronounce this town??? Would that be FU-K-IT
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kdawg31337

Registered
I'll figure this out somehow...As for Phuket...it's poo-ket. I thought FU-K-IT first too, and used that pronunciation to the travel agent...she thought I was very angry with her and gave me a few awkward looks.
 

Wolfman

Registered
Dude, I'm not trying to be rude by any means. I just don't tink you are grasping the concept that everyone is trying to get you to understand. There is a WHOLE WORLD of difference in a 600 cruiser versus a 600 sport bike. Let me try a different approach. A FAST cruiser with a displacement of 1800cc runs mid to low 12's in the quarter mile. That is 1800cc!!! A 600cc sportbike runs low 11's! I don't know how much you know about racing, but a second's difference in the quarter mile is a very big difference. So you can see that a 600cc sportbike is a whole lot faster than even an 1800cc cruiser. A cruiser gets its name because it is made to cruise, not go fast. A sport bike is made to go VERY fast. I guarantee that you will not be disapointed by the GSXR 600 or 750. The 750 is actually very popular among amateur racers and as a result kind of hard to get ahold of. Hope this helped.
 

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