Socialism and Panera Bread.

[Mr Brown]

but nevertheless carl marx was a complicated man... he contemplated many things... here is a BRAZEN idea... In a letter to Vera Zasulich dated 8 March 1881, Marx contemplated the possibility of Russia's bypassing the capitalist stage of development and building communism on the basis of the common ownership of land characteristic of the village mir.[147][192] While admitting that Russia's rural "commune is the fulcrum of social regeneration in Russia", Marx also warned that in order for the mir to operate as a means for moving straight to the socialist stage without a preceding capitalist stage it "would first be necessary to eliminate the deleterious influences which are assailing it (the rural commune) from all sides".[193] Given the elimination of these pernicious influences, Marx allowed that "normal conditions of spontaneous development" of the rural commune could exist.[193] However, in the same letter to Vera Zasulich he points out that "at the core of the capitalist system ... lies the complete separation of the producer from the means of production".[193] In one of the drafts of this letter, Marx reveals his growing passion for anthropology, motivated by his belief that future communism would be a return on a higher level to the communism of our prehistoric past. He wrote that "the historical trend of our age is the fatal crisis which capitalist production has undergone in the European and American countries where it has reached its highest peak, a crisis that will end in its destruction, in the return of modern society to a higher form of the most archaic type – collective production and appropriation". He added that "the vitality of primitive communities was incomparably greater than that of Semitic, Greek, Roman, etc. societies, and, a fortiori, that of modern capitalist societies".[194] Before he died, Marx asked Engels to write up these ideas, which were published in 1884 under the title The Origin of the Family, Private Property and the State.

Cutting and pasting isn't the same as reading and comprehending.

 

[Mr Brown]

from Wikipedia...… Communism and socialism are economic and political structures that promote equality and seek to eliminate social classes. The two are interchangeable in some ways, but different in others.In a communist society, the working class owns everything, and everyone works toward the same communal goal.

Ahh, that noted academic source, Wikipedia.
On that note, I'm out.

 

[ali123]

Ahh, that noted academic source, Wikipedia.
On that note, I'm out.

Karl marx…. murderer of millions.

 

[fallenarch]

If I remember my political philosophy (it's been 35 years since I was in School), in a communist system everyone owns everything and in a socialist system no one owns anything. That doesn't sound like a big distinction but basically Marx thought communism was the fore runner of socialism. Marx thought all of the social/economic systems were a path of the evolution of the spirit of man. It started with feudalism, then capitalism, then communism, and then socialism. In the communism phase, you would still need a government to manage and distribute resources. In the socialist phase, people have risen above materialism, so they only draw what they need from the commons, so there is no need for government as we know it.

This all sounds crazy but Native Americans were basically socialist. When they were offered beads for Manhattan, they thought it a great deal since they didn't own Manhattan and neither would the settlers (or so they thought). Feudalism was crushed during the enlightenment, and it is basically feudalism without a genetically locked ruling class. There are few true capitalist systems on the planet but the more pure the capitalism the more deplorable conditions are. Most successful capitalist systems are actually highly controlled economies. Capitalism has also proven to be a source of endless killing and exploitation of resources.

There are few communist or socialist governments. I have heard it said that the US has a capitalist system leaning feudal and Russia is a capitalist system leaning communist.

Edit: Sorry, posted this and didn't see you all were deeper into this already! Carry on.

 

[ali123]

If I remember my political philosophy (it's been 35 years since I was in School), in a communist system everyone owns everything and in a socialist system no one owns anything. That doesn't sound like a big distinction but basically Marx thought communism was the fore runner of socialism. Marx thought all of the social/economic systems were a path of the evolution of the spirit of man. It started with feudalism, then capitalism, then communism, and then socialism. In the communism phase, you would still need a government to manage and distribute resources. In the socialist phase, people have risen above materialism, so they only draw what they need from the commons, so there is no need for government as we know it.

This all sounds crazy but Native Americans were basically socialist. When they were offered beads for Manhattan, they thought it a great deal since they didn't own Manhattan and neither would the settlers (or so they thought). Feudalism was crushed during the enlightenment, and it is basically feudalism without a genetically locked ruling class. There are few true capitalist systems on the planet but the more pure the capitalism the more deplorable conditions are. Most successful capitalist systems are actually highly controlled economies. Capitalism has also proven to be a source of endless killing and exploitation of resources.

There are few communist or socialist governments. I have heard it said that the US has a capitalist system leaning feudal and Russia is a capitalist system leaning communist.

Edit: Sorry, posted this and didn't see you all were deeper into this already! Carry on.

it depends how Marx was formulating his latest writings and theories.... he wrote ALOT...……… in russias case.... marx actually suggested the soviets could "skip" the step of capitalism collapsing.... and go into communism.... its quite the triangle.... it didn't work out... lol