Shifting question

[jermzfree]

I have been reading some horror stories about the second gear issue and how Suzuki is @#$%^&* people by not covering it under the original warranty

Hopefully this will not happen to me and to make sure I ususally shift it into second real carefully. Now I am reading on a thread that it may be worse to baby it into gear. What is worse?? Shifting it hard or soft?

 

[GSXRFANN]

I say shift the heck out of it. Really there isn't a WHOLE lot of difference if you are under load anyway.

 

[spot]

I was told Yesterday by my dealer that it takes 2# to move the shift fork between gears when you apply to much presure to the shifter it bends the shift fork the after effects are the gears not meshing together perfect and wearing them uneven thats what I was told by the service guy so if its true who knows Good luck

 

[rocketgeezer]

Your dealer was right about the 2nd gear fork bending, you have to be sure the clutch is disengaged when it goes into 2nd gear or in the case when you shift without the clutch bliping the throttle and the shift HAS to be timed perfectly or the fork binds then the guys with the air shifters dont have the kill time adjusted correctly and the fork binds however its done you have to keep the shift fork from binding when the trans is shifted to 2nd the other gears are normaly not a problem cause your just going gear to gear and not crossing neutral

 

[Mr Bogus]

I doubt you can bend a shift fork on the upshift (not that much power in your upshift) down shifts on the other hand.... lots of force available...

If you pussyfoot the upshift you will have trouble, do it like you mean it... jumping on the lever to get back down to the lower gears can be trouble

 

[jermzfree]

"I doubt you can bend a shift fork on the upshift (not that much power in your upshift) down shifts on the other hand.... lots of force available...

If you pussyfoot the upshift you will have trouble, do it like you mean it... jumping on the lever to get back down to the lower gears can be trouble"

That seems to makes a lot of sense to me. Never thought about about the going over neutral to reach second gear, but that makes sense. I exploded the second gear on my Katana when I down shifted real hard also. Don't want to do that again!!  

Thanks for the input  

 

[Sloto200]

Just shift it like you mean it... i always use the clutch and have over 10000 miles with no tranny issues at all... to expesive of a thing to fix to be shifting without the clutch in my world... i'd have to sell my bike if the tranny broke cause i screwed it up!

 

[yamahor]

Just shift it like you mean it... i always use the clutch and have over 10000 miles with no tranny issues at all...  to expesive of a thing to fix to be shifting without the clutch in my world... i'd have to sell my bike if the tranny broke cause i screwed it up!  

Clutchless shifting is all about timing and feel. I had over 7,000 miles I put on it, almost all was clutchless shifting. No tranny wear problems that became known. The bike itself had 10,000 on it when I bought it off Pipe, I don't know how he shifted. But, theres no more wear from clutchless as from using the clutch except if you miss the timing and grind the gear.

 

[kennym4]

Just shift it like you mean it... i always use the clutch and have over 10000 miles with no tranny issues at all...  to expesive of a thing to fix to be shifting without the clutch in my world... i'd have to sell my bike if the tranny broke cause i screwed it up!  

Clutchless shifting is all about timing and feel. I had over 7,000 miles I put on it, almost all was clutchless shifting. No tranny wear problems that became known. The bike itself had 10,000 on it when I bought it off Pipe, I don't know how he shifted. But, theres no more wear from clutchless as from using the clutch except if you miss the timing and grind the gear.

Yup, what he said !!!!!!

 

[HillbillyTom]

Fingers crossed, I've never had a missed shift from first to second. It's actually the easiest shift in the tranny, it's fourth to fifth and fifth to sixth I've had trouble with. And that has gotten better with time and synthetic oil. I'm still thinking of reversing the pattern anyway, have heard that is an almost sure fix for missed shifts.
Most times I think warrenty issues are hinged on how much your dealer will go to bat for you. They don't make much, if any money on warrenty work so if neither the factory OR the dealer want to do it, well.. it's easy to blame it on the rider.

 

[Shibumi]

I have put 8-9000 miles on mine since changing from the "clutch every shift" mode. Tranny is great, smooth shifting and no issues.

Now I clutch for 1-2, then the rest of the upshifts I pre-load the shifter with the same force I would use to shift it, then roll the throttle 1/8-1/4" forward and back and it just snicks into gear! It is SO easy and smooth, when putting around town it feels like an automatic transmission.

Think of this:

We all take it for granted after doing it for so long, but think of all the muscle memory involved in shifting: left hand pulls the clutch 1-2 inches in, then lets it out to the bite point and on to full engagement-right hand rolls throttle to full off, then back to an estimated point to match RPMs-left foot coordinates moving lever in time to this left/right hand dance.

Now try this instead-left foot applies pressure at a non-critical time before shifting, then you simply roll the throttle forward slightly and then back.

Think with practice how much easier and precise this small movement becomes to get into the next gear, and at the desired RPM setting. You can roll onto the throttle so gently you feel NO jerk, then ease it on a fractional second later to continue accelerating, or just slam it back to accelerate hard if you are so inclined. Think also how much faster this is with practice, it's almost instantaneous!


That being said, I will continue to clutch for the 1-2 shift because Suzuki was cheap and stupid with their flagship bike and didn't undercut second gear and it sucks. I can't afford a new transmission. I will ALWAYS clutch for all downshifts, even though I match RPM when shifting rather than blipping the throttle.

I know, I know, it SOUNDS cool to blip the throttle when downshifting but I have found it easier to move the throttle to the RPM I will be in when I downshift and hold it there while I shift. Very smooth gearchanges, no jerk and minimal wear to the clutch when I let it out. Again, It's MUCH easier to move the throttle a small amount accurately than to try to match a rev point by ear, I believe most people blipping throttle do not have a smooth downshift and it's more a matter of habit and the clutch makes up for the inaccuracy. JMHO.


So, do NOT be afraid to try this, most of you will be amazed how easy it is and how much smoother it is with practice. I promise you a grin the first time you try it!!

 

[GMbusa]

Here's how most if not all of the 1st&2nd gear problems are caused. It's when you miss 2nd or hit neutral by accident and while the rpm's are high, you try and jam it into gear. Against my better judgement, in the heat of doing a loooong rolling burnout, i didn't bump the shifter up hard enough and i hit neutral. i tried 3-4 times to smack it up into 2nd but it wouldn't go. That's all it took. Now i have the motor out and i'm redoing the whole trans to make it bulletproof. (Bigger output shaft, billet gear, the works)  Normal shifting usually will not do anything to the trans. Just keep in mind and remember that when you do hit neutral or find a false neutral, DON'T try to bump it back into gear. Simply slow down and do a low rpm up shift just to get it into gear. Then you can select another gear to suit your riding.  My little rolling burnout is now costing me around $800-1500.

 

[Sloto200]

Just shift it like you mean it... i always use the clutch and have over 10000 miles with no tranny issues at all...  to expesive of a thing to fix to be shifting without the clutch in my world... i'd have to sell my bike if the tranny broke cause i screwed it up!  

Clutchless shifting is all about timing and feel. I had over 7,000 miles I put on it, almost all was clutchless shifting. No tranny wear problems that became known. The bike itself had 10,000 on it when I bought it off Pipe, I don't know how he shifted. But, theres no more wear from clutchless as from using the clutch except if you miss the timing and grind the gear.

well i dont pride myself on being a clutchless shifting master... i always use my clutch and as long as i do i will never have to worry about screwing anything up... there is no need for me to do a clutchless shift, my bike is riden on the street, not the track where clutchless shifting is a plus. The bike gets to the speedlimit plenty fast enough for me using the clutch. No need for me to risk breaking the tranny just cause i dont feel like not using the clutch. Just my humble opinion, not trying to start a...i use my clutch and so should you battle...

 

[GMbusa]

Clutchless shifting isn't a race only thing. You don't need the clutch after take off on pretty much any vehicle on the road. Think big truck drivers use the clutch? Nope. It's doesn't hurt the trans at all. It's all rpm and road speed. Sometimes using the clutch is necessary for certain riding, but usually it's not needed.

 

[JusPlaynBob]

You really shouldn't shift from first to second without at the very least, applying a bit of pressure on the clutch.

The following is typical of most Sportbike gear ratios.

Transmission Overall Ratios:
6th 3.918:1
5th 4.267:1
4th 4.828:1
3rd 5.732:1
2nd 7.276:1
1st 9.822:1

You'll notice that there is nearly 10 turns of the first gear, to one of the main shaft. Compared to only a little over seven turns to one, in second. A difference of nearly two and a half turns.

Thats a heck of a jump!!!

Then look at the remaining four gears.
The ratio drops from a difference of one and a half turns, down to, a half a turn. A ratio far less aggressive, and therefore far less stressful on the transmission when shifting under moderate load without the aid of a clutch.

I've always upshifted without a clutch from second to fifth or sixth. (Showing my age), without any issues what so ever.

Again the secret is all about maintenance, and keeping clean viscous oil in that crank case.
I've not been a proponent of synthetic oils because I've always felt it was just an excuse not to have to change it.
My technicians have kind of reinforced that opinion but, I'm seriously looking for another educated point of view.

 

[vman1300]

You are correct on the 1st to 2nd gear change. Plus it is the longest throw...has to go thru neutral. I use a BPD Quickshifter on my Busa and R1, but I still shift 1st to 2nd with the clutch.

 

[GIXERHP]

You are correct on the 1st to 2nd gear change. Plus it is the longest throw...has to go thru neutral. I use a BPD Quickshifter on my Busa and R1, but I still shift 1st to 2nd with the clutch.

+1 for the clutch for second!

 

[Darkside]

I guess its all what works for you. 20000 miles on my turbo busa and the original transmission is still in it. Some times i clutch ,most times i don't. To tell you the truth it reminds me of people asking if you inhale or exhale on your back swing at the golf course. I had trouble with mine popping out of gear [2] and i corrected it by adjusting the shift linkage at the yoke.

This is a transmission out of an 05 Busa with 1000 miles on it.

These are engaging dogs,these are what are kicking out when they are not fully engaged.

Note the dogs and the mating surface on the backside of the gear.

This metal is not as strong as you would hope, i would think it would be fine under its intended use it will come up wearing under performance use. I am a huge proponent of synthetic oil.

I would have shot the second gear dogs but the wife started yelling something about it being a holiday and get out of the garage.

 

[JusPlaynBob]

THanks for the Pictures.
I have heard the terminology before, and viewed some pictures but,
the arrangement you've shown certainly puts it into perspective.

I've read that most sportbike transmissions are built like wise.
I guess toting around a couple of hundred extra pounds exposes the week link.

 

[CDiPrecision]

Just run an airshifter on the street...it does better than anyones foot ever could hope to do.. It just stutters the moder for a fraction of a second..its the bomb..