Reliability of Aftermarket cams?

OB_ianfila

Registered
How many miles with average riding can you expect to get from aftermarket cams these days? A friend of my had cams in his gsxr750 and they went bad after only 800 miles!
 
Be wary of aftermarket cams, especially those that require higher spring pressures! There are good ones out there, but some are terrible. The hardening process used by some is questionable (one company does not recommend Mobil 1 synthetic, saying it affects the hardness!). I would only buy a proven combo, there are many factors to consider in my opinion.
 
See the "Who swapped cams" topic, it sounds like Web and Yosh cams make good power, and I think the reliability of both are good as well.
 
The Webs are a "hardfaced" cam. The lobe surface is much harder than the stock cams.

With higher lobe pressures due to the increased lift, you would want to avoid synthetic oils, with the possible exception of Redline.

Both Web and Megacycle recommend Kendell GT 40. Kendell has more anit-gauling properties in it than any other oil you can buy.

Jay
 
I am saying that Kendell has more anti gauling than any other oil available. I just found out that they quite the GT40 line and now call it GT1. Same stuff. Kendell is used in more racing engines than any other oil, regardless of what it says on the car / or bike.

I was just browsing over at the Falicon web site. (gotta keep an eye on the competition) They make billet crankshafts for many of the four cylinder bikes. It says right on their site that if you use any other oil than Kendell for breakin and you have a problem with their crank, don't even bother to call them about it.

I have been dying to find a synthetic I could sell that wouldn't kill cams and lifters. I can't sell Kendell because it only cost $1.98 at the auto parts store, so there is not much profit in it for the space it takes up. I have narrowed it down to Redline as the only acceptable one, but I haven't made my mind up yet.

Here on the net, you will find guys with very strong feelings about synthetic oils, especially the Amisol guys ( they are usually agents with a garage full of the stuff). They will quote page after page of lab test results, ect. However, in the real world of high performance racing engines, all that stuff is like the stuff in the infomercials on TV where they drain some magic stuff out of the Viper and then drive it around Willow Springs Raceway

Bottom line. You can not do better than $1.98 a quart Kendell.

Jay
 
Sorry dude ...aint buying it.All they run in military planes is synthetic... not Kendal.If it can handle a 3million dollar turbine@ 35,000 rpm and 550 degree heat it can handle a crank shaft.Hell even the company I work for switched to synthetic in their gear reduction boxes and have increased reliabilty over 300% and decreased electric current demand 3%.Oh and Merry Christmas :)

[This message has been edited by gsx1300rguy (edited 25 December 1999).]
 
Not wanting to stir it any more but if I were to run car dino oil it would be kendall...ran it over 10 years in drag engines with NO problems. Jay is right about drag racers using it...over half do for sure. Remember the properties of this oil was changed a few years back due to feds...I still am afraid of current car oils. When I started using what at the time was Kenny Harmon cams kendall is what they recommended and now megacycle and web both do....but synthetics have come of age in the last five years so I personally do not think dino oil can stack up against a good bike synthetic but I would not use anything but dino to break a engine in. My 2 cents...which ant worth much..
 
The key word is "Break In" Thats why hardly anyone suggests using a synthetic for break in because the stuff works so good it doesn`t allow it to break in.I`m not banging Kendall I`m saying synthetics are better lubricants than organics.I cant believe that a dino oil has a higher film strength than synthetic also which would be the cause of cam failure Also unless the New Kendall has the same amount of zinc ,sulpher and phosphorus as the old stuff it might not be as good.The SJ rating has done away with alot of that good stuff.More than likely its low grade steel and poor heat treating.I`ve never had a Comp-Cams fail in my drag race days.I ran 2 years on Kendall(yes I ran it also) and two on Mobil one ,First two year rebuild was $4500 second rebuild $1500 Machine work was the major cost first rebuild .While I wasn`t running top fuel I was a 11.50 bracket racer at Lebanon Valley NY (Midnight Blue II).Cages suck I dont care how fast they go thats why I ride bikes now :).



[This message has been edited by gsx1300rguy (edited 25 December 1999).]
 
Well I must say that none of our customers have militery aircraft with turbine engines, so I am not experienced in what works in them.

All of our customers have high performance motorcycles, and I do know what works there. In EVERY case where customers have sent us or brought in wiped out cams and/or rockers - buckets, and ask what could have caused this, we tell them it was probably their synthetic oil. When the parts are replaced, we tell them to run only Kendell. Not one has ever come back with the new parts wiped out.

Like I said earlier, I don't sell any oil. I sell racing parts, and I want them to live after the customer has purchased them. That is the only reason for pushing Kendell.

I will say that there are people with their own ideas about oil, and these people will ignore the warnings that come in our parts, Web cams, and Mega Cycle cams, and run an oil they think is superior. I rteally have no problem with this as we are one of the leading suppliers of valve train components for Japanese motorcycles, and we get to make repeated sales to these people who will not except our advise.

Understand that most of the new bikes have very light valves and therefore low valve spring pressure from the factory, which is good. You don't want to run any more spring pressure than it takes for the lifter to follow the cam lobe. It is when you install cams with radical lobe profiles which requires higher spring pressures to follow the lobe that these problems come up.

I think most stock motorcycles could run synthetics with no problem.

In closing, I did not come on here to get into an oil debate. as I stated earlier, they are not hard to find here on the net and aol. The Amisol guys will wear you out quoating lab reports. I only offered free advise based on many years in the high performance motorcycle business, with engines up to 1200 hp.

Everyone is free to put anything in their motor that they thinks is best.

Jay
 
Yep.....Well I think all your customers should get together and have a class action lawsuit or at least force the major oil manufactures to put a warning on there synthetic motorcycle oil(warning not intended for really fast race bikes) because the last thing motorcyclists need is a product thats going to destroy there engine or possibly kill them.....Dont you agree?It sounds like you have a really good case there Jay :).Hell you can even go after Amsoil for there bogus statements since you obviously have bad feelings against them.Just think of the publicity you guys would get.And because your so sure of the reason of the cam failures...it`s in the bag!.....EASY MONEY!Oh it looks like I`ll be buying Yosh cams...they seem to last a little longer :).




[This message has been edited by gsx1300rguy (edited 26 December 1999).]
 
I thought the Hayabusas valve train was a shim under bucket direct actuated valve...not a rocker type.Hell I thought all new sportbikes were. They still use rocker type actuation on high perf bikes? Or are we talking old stuff?
 
Jay,

Have been down the Mega/Comp/Web cam problem also. Went thru the same oil argument with the 'nice' lady from Mega. What we found was that certain types of engines were more prone to this failure. Also you HAD to have hard faced rockers for any big lift Suzy. We replaced many sets in 1 particular 'street' gsxr before finding the right combo. Also found out the lobes were pitting before the rocker was going away... love those hardface rockers.

In the FZR engines we never had ANY problems with Mega cams using Mobil 1. Even with Don's heaviest spring kit, which required different buckets due to increased coil diameter.

In the Suzy's with a top end oiling kit and the rockers, we have had no more failures while using Mobil 1. Like everything else, doesn't mean it will work for everyone. Seems the rocker setups are more sensitive to this problem. I agree, no need to start an oil debate.... to each his own!!!!

Dave
 
Dave;
The Suzuki rocker arm problem is mainly due to the fact that the rockers are soft under their hard chrome surface. When the pressure is increased, the soft material gives out and the chrome cracks and goes away. then the dead rocker damages the cam. When that happens, most guys thing that the cam died and took out the rockers, instead of the other way around. The hardweld rockers certainly solve that problem. We keep them in stock so that a customer can get a quick turn around.

One of our guys raced an FZR1000 with megacycle cams and he was running a synthetic oil, and never hurt the cams or buckets. Then again, it was a welded cam. He had to eventually change oils because he could not keep main bearings in it, but never had a cam problem.

As for the Hayabusas, the Webs and Megacycles would be welded cams and they should have no problem with any kind of oil. We have a Busa spring that sets up with about 10 more pounds of seat pressure and with a welded cam, should also be OK.

Anyone know,are the Yosh cams billets?

Jay
 
The welded cams are NOT re-heat treated after the welding is done. The lobe is welded with a "hardface" material that is many times harder than any cast billet can be heat treated to.

All of the four valve pro stock bikes where they are running seat pressures around 65 lbs and as much as 200 over the nose, use welded cams.

Jay
 
Dave;

You are right about the crank flex. This bike ran foumula 1 at Willow andf would crack a crank every weekend. I guess it thought it was a GSXR :)

Jay
 
The Yoshimura-Japan Hayabusa cams are billets and are shipped with adjustable sprockets. Yes they are more expensive than the others, But...................
 
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