Rear brake your best friend? Read on!

[Tufbusa]

I know this rear brake "Thingy" has been beat around the bushes on many occasions but I'd like to share my experience with those of you who think for some odd reason that you are immune to the venom of the dreaded "Rear brake snake"!

This past Saturday was a beautiful day with cloudless skies and temps that began with 60 degrees and reached 80 degrees at it's peak. Perfect day for a track event with the 2-fast.org crew. We had a full house, 120 paying customers with 25 being students taking the riding school. No wanna be racers, all street folkes wanting to improve their skills. Some in the Intermediate and some in the novice group. All were filled with excitement and anticipation.

During the first session on the track I took notice that many of students were using their rear brakes. Some were using the rear exclusively but most were using the rear in combination with the front. During the following classroom session I ask them all to please do their braking with the front and leave the rear brake at rest for the day. All acknowledged my request and agreed.

The next session I witnessed several students who apparently didn't get the message so I brought it up at the beginning of the next classroom session. I went into detail how the rear brake snake was coiled and waiting for the opportunity to strike when you least expect it. Some were wide eyed in disbelief and some just stared like they were in limbo or they thought this was some sort of joke and they would get a good belly laugh as soon as I delivered the punch line. The punch line never came. At least not at that moment, but it would be delivered with remarkable accuracy later.

Around 2:00 in the afternoon I'm out working with the group, looking for bad habbits and it didn't take long to find a target. I followed a bike into a left hand turn when all of a sudden I see the rear tire lock up and this big boy got his arse launched like a missle and there was no fartin around. Highsides can be extremely violent and this one was just that. The rider was probably 15 feet in the air and went some 50 feet and did a face plant. The bike followed by tumbling to a stop with steam trailing in the air like an ancient volcano.

I bailed off the track and came to a stop just past the wounded comrade. He wasn't moving. I turned his head so I could see his face and make sure his airway was un-obscured. His mouth and nose was bleeding apparently from his helmet being smashed back into his face. I got his chin strap loose and he began to make these funny sounds half grunt and half cry. When the medics got to him he was fully awake and talking but didn't know where he was and had no idea he owned a motorbike.

This unfortunate gent, arrived with a beautiful street bike, nice clean leathers and filled with excitement. He left in a meat wagon for a very expensive and painful experience to end the day. Plus the track was down for 45 minutes while the unfortunate bloke was being tended to.

This entire event was due to all the conditions being right for the rear brake snake to strike. A totally avoidable crash. I'd bet a months pay if this fella recalls his crash he will have no idea what caused the crash.

This is the second nasty highside I have witnessed this season. The first one was similar without injuries. I watched this guy get spooked going into a left hander. He never reached the tip in point, was hard on the front brake (straight up and down) and decided to touch the rear. The rear instantly locked and tossed his a$$ like a rag doll. He was up walking around when I got to him. We picked the bike up and moved it out of the impact zone. I ask, what happened. He says, I don't know I think someone must have hit me!

Now I'm wondering how many street or track guys get bit by the rear brake and end up with some lame excuse not having a clue about the rear brake.

There is definately a time and place for the rear brake, mostly when traction is limited such as rain or gravel. Dry clean pavement is where you'll get yourself in trouble with the rear brake.

The last classroom session of the day, I dropped in and shared the event with the remaining students. I've never seen so many wide eyed adults in one group. Although it took a violent ending for one student to really drive the point home to the rest, it was clear to me that the "Let's not use the rear brake today" warning will be remembered for the rest of their riding days!

Braking skills are rarely well developed in street riders. In my view, braking skills are the most important survival skills involved in motorcycling.

 

[skydivr]

Did it look like the highside that Lorenzo had in Free Practice this weekend at Laguna Seca? Man it was a nasty one, launched him..except he didn't touch any rear brake he was breaking so hard his rear end was off the ground on it's own...

I only had to learn this lesson ONCE, at NSS on my 1st Trackday, on my Busa. Coming down the back straight, I grabbed the front and TOUCHED the rear....luckily for me it was in a straight line; the back locked up IMMEDIATELY and started sliding...luckily, when it gained traction again I was still standing straight up, so there was no 'snatch' as it regained traction to toss me off. That was one of our first of many "discussion sessions" that have helped me immensly. Now, it's the opposite, i have to remember i even have a rear brake thank you again Master Jedei

 

[Tufbusa]

'snatch'

He said "Snatch" :nono:

 

[skydivr]

I setem' up, and you knock 'em out of the park...badbing badabang

 

[jellyrug]

I don't entirely agree with the OP, for what it's worth.

On the track, you can brake a little in a corner with the front, only a little else it's all over but the crying. The way we hang off in a corner, you can't get to the rear brake anyway, as your feet are toe on the one peg and the other the knee is down. So, in short in a turn the rear brake is unavailable and the front brake is dangerous anyway. To brake hard, you have to stand the bike up and once it is up, both brakes are available and safe. The key is to learn how to brake without losing traction.

In short, both rear and front brakes can make you crash, the front probably easier than the rear. The thing is, due to the momentum and g forces the front brake does most of the work, if not all the work, which is why most use the front only on the track. Some pro's use the rear as well though, as they believe it stabilizes the bike better just before corner entry.

The street is a totally different situation, if there is stuff on the pavement which makes you loose traction, like ice, or gravel, or diesel, the front will make you go down in a split second. If the rear loses traction, you have a little bit more time to correct by letting go and re-applying the brakes. On the street, loose stuff often finds it's way onto the pavement.

I believe in using both and try to develp my reflexes towards using each the right way for the right situation. On my dirt bike, it is the other way around, when the ride gets real loose, or I'm sliding down a steep gravel incline, the rear brake does all the work.

 

[skydivr]

I don't entirely agree with the OP, for what it's worth.

On the track, you can brake a little in a corner with the front, only a little else it's all over but the crying. The way we hang off in a corner, you can't get to the rear brake anyway, as your feet are toe on the one peg and the other the knee is down. So, in short in a turn the rear brake is unavailable and the front brake is dangerous anyway. To brake hard, you have to stand the bike up and once it is up, both brakes are available and safe. The key is to learn how to brake without losing traction.

In short, both rear and front brakes can make you crash, the front probably easier than the rear. The thing is, due to the momentum and g forces the front brake does most of the work, if not all the work, which is why most use the front only on the track. Some pro's use the rear as well though, as they believe it stabilizes the bike better just before corner entry.

The street is a totally different situation, if there is stuff on the pavement which makes you loose traction, like ice, or gravel, or diesel, the front will make you go down in a split second. If the rear loses traction, you have a little bit more time to correct by letting go and re-applying the brakes. On the street, loose stuff often finds it's way onto the pavement.

I believe in using both and try to develp my reflexes towards using each the right way for the right situation. On my dirt bike, it is the other way around, when the ride gets real loose, or I'm sliding down a steep gravel incline, the rear brake does all the work.

I disagree with my personal experience as example above. Braking hard, straight up - the rear is light as a feather and all it take sometimes is a TOUCH - and that rear will lock up and you'll be sliding...and that pucker moment leads to a lot of other stuff that's even worse.

You can trail brake a little into a corner (but it takes practice), and in that case, you are correct, braking with the front after making the turning maneuver takes more skill as the risk of losing the front is higher.

 

[jellyrug]

I disagree with my personal experience as example above. Braking hard, straight up - the rear is light as a feather and all it take sometimes is a TOUCH - and that rear will lock up and you'll be sliding...and that pucker moment leads to a lot of other stuff that's even worse.

You can trail brake a little into a corner (but it takes practice), and in that case, you are correct, braking with the front after making the turning maneuver takes more skill as the risk of losing the front is higher.

Think we are both saying the same thing, it depends on how you define 'Hard". If you brake really hard, the rear wheel does nothing, a little harder and it won't be touching the pavement.

 

[moloko]

What's this rear brake thing you guys are talking about?

 

[dadofthree]

 

[skydivr]

I think Tuf's original thread purpose was to state "Using the rear brake on the racetrack is a really bad idea" to prevent new trackday riders from the dreaded highside. Yes, if you race in MotoGP or in Advanced you may know the finer points of using the rear, but it's splitting hairs and obfuscates the original OP's point. One of the hardest things for brand new trackriders to do is get over touching the rear brake when in a track environment.

 

[Tufbusa]

What's this rear brake thing you guys are talking about?

It's the same "Rear Brake" that will put your a$$ in orbit if you don't know WTF you are doing!

 

[skydivr]

As in, like THIS (ouch)

 

[IG.]

Pretty sad that so many riders trust the rear, but not the front. I think the ignorance is part of the problem. How hard it would be to research the subject a little bit? But they figure they know how to ride.

I am proud to say that I finally replaced my 10-year-old stock rear brake pads which still were plenty thick.

A while back I experimented in using the rear brake on the track in order to start the braking quicker - hitting the rear, and then immediately switching to the front while at the same time releasing the rear. This would settle the suspension quicker than preloading it with the front brake only. However, the benefit would result in a small fraction of a second - perhaps important in racing, but not worth the effort otherwise. Not to mention the entire exercise needs to be timed and executed perfectly to get the real benefit.

Completely off topic, but since Moto GP was mentioned... I happened to catch Laguna Seca qualifying on TV, and perhaps only now realized how the qualifying are so much more challenging and dangerous than the actual race. Because it seems in qualifying you are trying to beat yourself which is a lot more challenging than trying to beat the other guy.

 

[Tufbusa]

I don't entirely agree with the OP, for what it's worth.

On the track, you can brake a little in a corner with the front, only a little else it's all over but the crying. The way we hang off in a corner, you can't get to the rear brake anyway, as your feet are toe on the one peg and the other the knee is down. So, in short in a turn the rear brake is unavailable and the front brake is dangerous anyway. To brake hard, you have to stand the bike up and once it is up, both brakes are available and safe. The key is to learn how to brake without losing traction.

In short, both rear and front brakes can make you crash, the front probably easier than the rear. The thing is, due to the momentum and g forces the front brake does most of the work, if not all the work, which is why most use the front only on the track. Some pro's use the rear as well though, as they believe it stabilizes the bike better just before corner entry.

The street is a totally different situation, if there is stuff on the pavement which makes you loose traction, like ice, or gravel, or diesel, the front will make you go down in a split second. If the rear loses traction, you have a little bit more time to correct by letting go and re-applying the brakes. On the street, loose stuff often finds it's way onto the pavement.

I believe in using both and try to develp my reflexes towards using each the right way for the right situation. On my dirt bike, it is the other way around, when the ride gets real loose, or I'm sliding down a steep gravel incline, the rear brake does all the work.

It's okay to disagree. Actually, it's healthy. It sparks good discussions.

Let me make a couple of points that I believe you are overlooking?

Your front brake "WILL NOT" highside your a$$, the rear brake will. I have no idea how many highsides or lowsides you have under your belt but personally, I'd take a dozen lowsides over one highside.

Lowsides are usually easy getoffs. You are already leaned over and it's generally more like laying down on the pavement and sliding to a stop. A highside is scary and can be extremely violent. A lowside will leave you saying "Damnit, I skinned up my plastics" and a highside is apt to leave you babling in the unknown tounge. Highsides are notorous for breaking bones.

Anytime you find yourself in a bad situation in a corner staying off the brakes totally is usually the best avenue to take but if you do choose to use the brakes it's best to gently squeeze the front brake and take a chance on a lowside over using the rear brake and take a chance on putting your superman cape to good use.

You are mistaken about the streets being different than the track, it is not! You find the same gravel, oil, antifreeze, raccoons, deer etc. on the track as you find on the streets. A bike scatters a motor leaving a trail of oil behind, you'd be surprised how often a bike looses the drain plug, takes a rock to the radiator or runs off the track throwing gravel out in a corner. Once in a while we have a deer or coon on the track, odd but it does happen. Your bike has no eyes and it makes no attempt to seperate you on where you are, pavement is pavement as far as the bike is concerned.

Never, ever, ever stand the bike up in a corner. If you do, your fate almost always sealed and a crash is imminent. If you simply lean it over until you loose traction, in most cases you'll make the corner just fine. If you don't make the corner it's an easy lowside.

One other point, just because you are straight up doesn't mean you are immune from a rear brake highside. The second bike I used in the thread is factual evidence of support.

 

[OldMan]

Just when I thought I was doing well in the twisties, using both brakes as needed, now this. Hmmm... I've been safe up to this point, managed to use all my tire without sliding. Perhaps I will maintain the status quo ???

 

[jellyrug]

It's okay to disagree. Actually, it's healthy. It sparks good discussions.

Yep, but most places I agree with you, the only difference is what happens on the track, stays on the track, while the street riding is totally different.

Let me make a couple of points that I believe you are overlooking?

Your front brake "WILL NOT" highside your a$$, the rear brake will. I have no idea how many highsides or lowsides you have under your belt but personally, I'd take a dozen lowsides over one highside.

Totally agree, I can't get my foot to the rear most of the time on the track anyways, due to body position.

Lowsides are usually easy getoffs. You are already leaned over and it's generally more like laying down on the pavement and sliding to a stop. A highside is scary and can be extremely violent. A lowside will leave you saying "Damnit, I skinned up my plastics" and a highside is apt to leave you babling in the unknown tounge. Highsides are notorous for breaking bones.

Agree, I'm still limping from the last one though. It was a crash in front of me and a choice of riding over someone or hitting the front brake.

Anytime you find yourself in a bad situation in a corner staying off the brakes totally is usually the best avenue to take but if you do choose to use the brakes it's best to gently squeeze the front brake and take a chance on a lowside over using the rear brake and take a chance on putting your superman cape to good use.

Totally agree.

You are mistaken about the streets being different than the track, it is not! You find the same gravel, oil, antifreeze, raccoons, deer etc. on the track as you find on the streets. A bike scatters a motor leaving a trail of oil behind, you'd be surprised how often a bike looses the drain plug, takes a rock to the radiator or runs off the track throwing gravel out in a corner. Once in a while we have a deer or coon on the track, odd but it does happen. Your bike has no eyes and it makes no attempt to seperate you on where you are, pavement is pavement as far as the bike is concerned.

Disagree, because on the street you are not racing, you come to a gradual stop. I have done one group ride where a rider went down, front brake hit ice and it was over immediately, during what could have been a nice slow back brake stop. In another group ride, in traffic a buddy on the front brake hit a folded carton, the carton slipped and it was over, front wheel brake. Long time ago, I rided street like I brake on the track, no back brake, just before the stop there was diesel on the pavement and I went down like a sack of potatoes.

Never, ever, ever stand the bike up in a corner. If you do, your fate almost always sealed and a crash is imminent. If you simply lean it over until you loose traction, in most cases you'll make the corner just fine. If you don't make the corner it's an easy lowside.

You are right, but some times you have to make a choice between hitting riding into a crash, or bailing for the grass. But I agree, if you are on a tight line and you stand up the bike, you are off the track.

One other point, just because you are straight up doesn't mean you are immune from a rear brake highside. The second bike I used in the thread is factual evidence of support.

I ride a lot of dirt and I know it is different. It is not a GP track, but I can slide a long long ways with the rear wheel and keep the bike under control. No way I could do that with the front brake.

 

[Tufbusa]

Just when I thought I was doing well in the twisties, using both brakes as needed, now this. Hmmm... I've been safe up to this point, managed to use all my tire without sliding. Perhaps I will maintain the status quo ???

Not to worry, there is almost always one guy at every event that wants to argue their experience because they can use all their tire and never crashed. I usually respond with "If that rear brake works for you, great! For the rest of you in the classroom it's front brakes only"! Most listen and pay attention, some do not. Every now and then we get one who wads himself up because he knew better than the guy he's paying to educate him on SAFELY improving his riding skills.

Both brakes are not NEEDED in the twisties, it's your CHOICE to use both! Guys who use both for heavy braking on dry pavement are the ones who are most apt to get into trouble.

The poor bloke who highsided himself in front of me was also doing well using both brakes until all the stars were aligned and when he least expected it that rear brake gave him a nice comforting ride on a gernie to the hospital.

There were numerous folks using their rear brake at this event without incident. This particular fellow happen to use that rear brake with a perfect combination of speed, timing and lean to launch himself.

 

[Blanca BusaLess]

I bet you threw a wrench in his wheel just to prove your point.

 

[m_ridgeway]

what if your intent is to come to a complete stop and not just slow down, say light changed and caught you off guard for whatever reason, i know its best to drive defensively and etc but for discussion sake..

 

[nabusa]

Well I learned a little bit today. I know from experience, high sides definitely hurts over a low side. But I don't see how using the rear brakes while stopping in a straight line, example someone pulls out infront of you can cause a high side. I remember when I had my 600rr I used to use the rear brakes and lock up the rear on purpose to see if I can control it sliding (going in a straight line).