Ram air effect

[Nikk777]

Bikes have been perfecting ram air for years now.  This increases the hp directly because it forces more air into the engine the faster you go obviously.  Is there any way or any machine capable of replicating this on a dyno?  The usual blowing air on the bike from a fan is mainly for cooling as well as providing air for the engine but certainly not forcing it in.  In theory you would need something like what puts air through a wind tunnel under pressure.  It would need to force the air at the bike at about 100mph probably to be effective.  I read somewhere once that a bike's ram air didn't really make a difference until above 60-70mph.  

Oh, and I ran my 03 busa with a full muzzy and pcIII on a truck mounted dyno last night and it only pulled 129hp.  My bud's bone stock 07 zx-14 pulled 138hp.  It was one of the 4 gas dynos...not a dynojet.

 

[Commuta_Busa]

you can't create real world conditions in the dyno cell.

 

[Shibumi]

Find a way to measure pressure in a Busa airbox at speed, then hook up a low-pressure turbo to airbox while on dyno?? Kinda McGyver-ish, but could be done...

 

[99'busa]

you could have opened a can of worms. lets hope not. there are dif. ideas about the air presure in an airbox. those #'s are pretty low. I have heard of guys w/ ideas of hooking up flex tubing to be pointed in ports, but I don't know why they don't.

I've seen some long stressful debates here over airbox presure and its relavents. I would also like to learn more about it. but last time it got exhausted and still ended up at ground 0

 

[Nikk777]

Here is the article I read a while ago while looking for how to shoe horn in the zx-9 engine into my zx-7.  It's quite interesting.

http://www.sportrider.com/tech/146_9508_ram/index.html

 

[hans]

Note that the 40mb they would expect amounts to .58 psi.

 

[frisbee]

 I read somewhere once that a bike's ram air didn't really make a difference until above 60-70mph.  

Even that is debatable . If you don't have the tubes sealed then you don't get much pressure and after 160mph the air goes right by unless you have scoops.

 

[Shibumi]

I read somewhere once that a bike's ram air didn't really make a difference until above 60-70mph.

Even that is debatable . If you don't have the tubes sealed then you don't get much pressure and after 160mph the air goes right by unless you have scoops.

Hey Fris, you have those scoops don't you? Pic?

 

[Gixx1300R]

A Superflow Dyno can simulate the Ramair effects. It had ducted fans that increase airflow into the Airducts and the drum speed is increased

 

[Commuta_Busa]

wouldn't the aerodynamics of a moving bike effect the flow area by the air ducts?

so the closest it could get, in simulation, would be like ridding in completely still undisturbed air?

 

[Gixx1300R]

wouldn't the aerodynamics of a moving bike effect the flow area by the air ducts?

so the closest it could get, in simulation, would be like ridding in completely still undisturbed air?

Yes it is the closest without being in an actual wind tunnel. There are other considerations like wave pressure,atmospheric pressue,turbulence and temperature to consider.

 

[Commuta_Busa]

wouldn't the aerodynamics of a moving bike effect the flow area by the air ducts?

so the closest it could get, in simulation, would be like ridding in completely still undisturbed air?

Yes it is the closest without being in an actual wind tunnel. There are other considerations like wave pressure,atmospheric pressue,turbulence and temperature to consider.

and that's why for the average joe it's not really worth much. Grnated if you've got the big bucks and have the correct analysis tools and algorithyms it can be a benefit. I don't think any of us on here are that close on the edge to worry about the exact ram air effects on performance. We do know it adds some up top

 

[Gixx1300R]

You can see in this graph that the Ramair effect starts around 40 mph on the Busa

 

[202mphbusa]

At maxton I put a map sensor inside my airbox
at 194mph I got .78 PSI

 

[jermzfree]

Find a way to measure pressure in a Busa airbox at speed, then hook up a low-pressure turbo to airbox while on dyno?? Kinda McGyver-ish, but could be done...  

 

@#$% McGyver and go Larry the Cable guy syle. Grab a couple leaf blowers, a couple of your friends and have them point the leaf blowers into each ram intake port. That should Git-R-Done!!

 

[dewie]

Find a way to measure pressure in a Busa airbox at speed, then hook up a low-pressure turbo to airbox while on dyno?? Kinda McGyver-ish, but could be done...  

 

@#$% McGyver and go Larry the Cable guy syle. Grab a couple leaf blowers, a couple of your friends and have them point the leaf blowers into each ram intake port. That should Git-R-Done!!

you beat me to it. I seen a video of a civic or something like that straped on a dyno, they did a couple runs stock then they stuffed a leaf blower down the intake and I think it was a 14hp gain!! It's probable on Youtube somewhere.. it's ghetto but it works!

 

[jermzfree]

http://video.google.com/videopl....A&hl=en

or google leaf blower bolt on dyno pull. Someone needs to come up with a leaf blower mod for cars. That would be cool

 

[Shibumi]

It's been done. I saw a vdeo somewhere with a truncated leaf blower under the hood, ghetto turbo...

 

[bigoltool]

If you look at this thread and scroll down you can see the Blower GPW uses directed into the Ram air intake on the Dyno in addition to the large squirrel cage for the Rad. I noticed this in another thread one time and asked him about it and he was a big fan of the blower for Dyno work!

 

[jermzfree]

It's been done. I saw a vdeo somewhere with a truncated leaf blower under the hood, ghetto turbo...    

Let's say you did hook a leaf blower up to your car. Would you have to change the fuel injection settings, much like you do when you turborize a Busa?