Progressive rate springs and LSR

JDRiderCoach

Registered
Anybody ever run progressive rate springs at Bonneville or El Mirage? Just curious pros and cons. Seems most people just dial up the pre-load and go stiff as possible and then hang a bunch of lead weights on the swingarm to try to keep that rear wheel hookin up. But wondering if bike would benefit from progeressive fork and rear springs. One argument I've heard is they'd be too soft at first before stiffening and with lowered bike and not much travel could be sketchy at +180. Might cause bottoming? Wondering if anyone's used them and what the feedback is. Trying to make the ride smoother on the salt, not more sketchy. Seemed to have some stability issues last year. Then again, almost everyone reported the same conditions so not sure if progressive springs would be worth it or any help at all. God forbid it'd make it worse. Less interested in theory, more interested in rider experience feedback. Thanks for your replies.
 
I was hopeing to get some feed back on the lowering set up from progresive , for the busa but nothing yet

!
 
I run stock suspension (set soft) at Bonneville with 50lbs of lead in the swingarm. I prefer to let the bike move around a bit and the soft suspension suits me. Don't know about the progressive setup.
 
I run stock suspension (set soft) at Bonneville with 50lbs of lead in the swingarm. I prefer to let the bike move around a bit and the soft suspension suits me. Don't know about the progressive setup.
Thanks Shane for an intelligent response. The previous poster was obviously clueless of what is meant by "progressive rate" springs. Hmmmm, soft setup. No issues as far as bottoming, or excessive bouncing? My racing buddy and previous owner of my bike had the stock springs set as hard as they can go, with no added swingarm weight. Bike did 203 so can't argue much with the results. Just want to make sure I don't create any problems if I install aftermarket springs. Last year had front end stability issues so I got a beefed up steering damper. Was thinking some progressive rate springs might help too. I realize some amount of rear wheel spin and front end wobble is ineveitable on the salt but was thinking maybe the progessive springs would reduce it some. Was considering weighting the swingarm as well since that seems to be a standard LSR mod. Thanks again for your feedback.
 
Thanks Shane for an intelligent response. The previous poster was obviously clueless of what is meant by "progressive rate" springs. Hmmmm, soft setup. No issues as far as bottoming, or excessive bouncing? My racing buddy and previous owner of my bike had the stock springs set as hard as they can go, with no added swingarm weight. Bike did 203 so can't argue much with the results. Just want to make sure I don't create any problems if I install aftermarket springs. Last year had front end stability issues so I got a beefed up steering damper. Was thinking some progressive rate springs might help too. I realize some amount of rear wheel spin and front end wobble is ineveitable on the salt but was thinking maybe the progessive springs would reduce it some. Was considering weighting the swingarm as well since that seems to be a standard LSR mod. Thanks again for your feedback.

It may be you my friend who is a bit clueless on how the suspension works?

You cannot change the rate of a spring once it is installed. You cannot make the spring "Harder" by adding preload. It just doesn't work that way!

Progressive springs will NOT smooth your ride out!

One more important point: Your added steering damper did not cure your steering problem. It only helps to control an existing problem. High Speed steering stability problems is not something to overlook!
 
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Thanks Tufbusa. While I am somewhat clueless about suspension setup, I'm not that clueless to think the spring rate changes with pre-load settings. By 'hard', I just meant dialed up the pre-load all the way. But wait, on a progressive rate spring, won't the spring become harder as it is compressed? And won't additional pre-load compress the spring? Anyway. What I really want to know is if someone has run with progressive rate springs on the salt and what their experience was. Not looking for a technical discussion on suspension theory, just want to know some basic rider feedback from folks who actually raced with them, if anyone has. But I'll be sure to let you know next time I need someone to nit-pick the subtleties of my wording on a post. :thumbsup:
 
I've thought about running progressives but didn't bother. It just adds an additional variable into everything. You can play with the internals of a shock till your head spins. I wouldn't want to complicate the suspension anymore than it already is.

It sounds like you had similar results as others at the same event so i would just chalk it up to bad event conditions for now.
 
JD,

I'm about 180 suited up and sweating like a dog. At times, I have experienced some steering movement but overall, the Busas are about as well behaved as I could ever ask for. A buddy of mine was dealing with some steering movement like you describe (running 198-205ish) and he added a GPR stabilizer, messed with fork internals, spring pre-load etc. It ended up being loose steering head bearings IIRC.

On my GEN I bike, I put 90wt gear oil in the steering stabilizer and it is really nice. On my GEN II bike (held the production record in 2008) I haven't had to do anything. It WILL turn and RIGHT NOW if you want it to, even at 200mph but I just don't ask it to and kinda let it do what it wants and we always get home safely. Never any dramatics.

I realize I am not answering your progressive spring question (sorry about that!). Just trying to add my experience with what you describe in case you find springs are not the answer.

Keep in mind that my soft suspension stuff probably won't work back east as I heard the pavement tracks require some suspension travel.
 
I've been doing pavement so I can't really comment directly either. I can say that no matter where you run or what you run, the more complicated you make things the tougher it gets to determine what works and why. :beerchug:

I've had loose steering during a pass and by adjusting the rear suspension I was able to correct it. There are lots of things that can make the steering loose so like others stated the damper may just mask the problem.
Keep in mind that my soft suspension stuff probably won't work back east as I heard the pavement tracks require some suspension travel.
 
Thanks guys and just kidding with the sarcasm. Intended to be humorous but I know how these things come across so apologies for being harsh. I'll definately be torque conscious as I do my assembly. Currently bike is in pieces. Now would be convenient time to change stuff. Was thinking about progressive springs but not convinced it'd help and certainly scared it might hurt. Last thing I want is to over tweak it, change too many things and then be off my baseline of 202.
 
I think that's the best approach. :beerchug:
I'll definately be torque conscious as I do my assembly. Currently bike is in pieces. Now would be convenient time to change stuff. Was thinking about progressive springs but not convinced it'd help and certainly scared it might hurt. Last thing I want is to over tweak it, change too many things and then be off my baseline of 202.
 
Thanks Shane for an intelligent response. The previous poster was obviously clueless of what is meant by "progressive rate" springs. Hmmmm, soft setup.

When you start out insulting someone's intelligence, you shouldn't expect to get warm fuzzy help.

Thanks Tufbusa. While I am somewhat clueless about suspension setup, I'm not that clueless to think the spring rate changes with pre-load settings. By 'hard', I just meant dialed up the pre-load all the way.

If what you write is not what you meant, maybe proof read your text and make sure your point is properly worded. We have no idea what you mean, only what you say.

But wait, on a progressive rate spring, won't the spring become harder as it is compressed?

Yes, it certainly does.

And won't additional pre-load compress the spring?

Preload only compresses the spring at Free Length when there is no weight on the fork or shock. Once the fork or shock is mounted and the weight of the bike has compressed the spring past the preload point, preload no longer has an effect on the spring. Look at preload more as a ride heigth adjustment.

Not looking for a technical discussion on suspension theory, just want to know some basic rider feedback

If you intend to race your bike, you need more than basic internet feedback.

But I'll be sure to let you know next time I need someone to nit-pick the subtleties of my wording on a post.

DEAL!
If you learn some forum manners and not get testy when you write a post that doesn't say what you mean, I promise not to point out your shortcomings in the future! :beerchug:
 
OK. OK. I get what I deserve. Critique away at my lame posts, I asked for it. I don't want to argue and I apologize for my rudeness. Reading it again I see your points. I don't really know you guys and you were just trying to help.

4 very short seasons of racing on the salt taught me that endless theories abound, but they don't all produce results. I'm no expert, so have found that listening to racers relate their experience has been really helpful. No one reports using progressive rate springs at Bonneville, so not much to discuss. Agreed relying on feedback from strangers on the internet is not ideal. All things considered, I probably won't mess with the suspension at all this year.
 
:thumbsup:

Suspension and HP go hand in hand. The more HP you are delivering to the ground, the more important suspension becomes. IMO suspension is more important than HP. I much prefer a bike that handles well over big HP. I most cases suspension makes the difference between winning or loosing a race.

Suspension tuning for different applications and riders is a science all it's own. If you have serious questions about suspension and your application I'd suggest you contact Dave Moss. Suspension is Dave's game and he knows it well.

I have no experience on the salt flats so I'm no expert. However, I do know from experience that progressive springs are no asset when it comes to high speed.



OK. OK. I get what I deserve. Critique away at my lame posts, I asked for it. I don't want to argue and I apologize for my rudeness. Reading it again I see your points. I don't really know you guys and you were just trying to help.

4 very short seasons of racing on the salt taught me that endless theories abound, but they don't all produce results. I'm no expert, so have found that listening to racers relate their experience has been really helpful. No one reports using progressive rate springs at Bonneville, so not much to discuss. Agreed relying on feedback from strangers on the internet is not ideal. All things considered, I probably won't mess with the suspension at all this year.
 
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