Power commander v + auto tune why bother





AsleepAtTheTree

Registered
If im not mistaken, For the price of a PCV+autotune you could have had a few ecu flashes and dynotunes completed

What would be the advantage of purchasing a PCV+auto tune, if any

Thank you
 

sixpack577

Top Gun
Registered
If im not mistaken, For the price of a PCV+autotune you could have had a few ecu flashes and dynotunes completed

What would be the advantage of purchasing a PCV+auto tune, if any

Thank you
It's really only beneficial to the serious drag racer. And someone willing to spend the time to learn to use it.
For making small changes based on weather and elavation. Different tracks and fighting for hundredths of a second.
 

AsleepAtTheTree

Registered
Power commander v and auto tune are great if you know how to use them. I used them to tune my bikes as the tuner we have locally isn’t that great. It works great on na bikes. But nitrous and turbo the auto tune isn’t fast enough to tune wot. So I use the pod 300 from power commander and data log with that.
So how exactly do you tune with a pcv?
Do you have to use s computer?
Can you do the same as ecu editor or woolich?
 

busakiller

Registered
Yea you need a laptop. You need to connect to the pcv and see what the auto tune wants to make for changes. And you need to set the auto tune up for what afr you want to run. Power commander is pretty easy to use and is quick to do. Ecu tuning is more in depth and take longer to make adjustments and can be a pita
 

AsleepAtTheTree

Registered
Yea you need a laptop. You need to connect to the pcv and see what the auto tune wants to make for changes. And you need to set the auto tune up for what afr you want to run. Power commander is pretty easy to use and is quick to do. Ecu tuning is more in depth and take longer to make adjustments and can be a pita
So if u can tune to a preset AFR, what's so bad abt it being used for turbo tuning?

Should be able to set it to say for example something like an initial 10 AFR for safety and jus tune it leaner as it learns to say a 13 AFR, maybe take some timing out to if the pcv does that and have it dialed in later on a dyno?

If thats viable then in theory it should work to jus get you moving down the street at WOT safely I would think....that said with no tuning knowledge what's so ever tho so lol:super::race:
 

busakiller

Registered
I don’t think you can shoot for a 10afr. I think 11 afr is the richest you can shoot for. The auto tune isn’t that fast so on a turbo bike you will go thru the Rpms very quick and the auto tune won’t be read it. If your going to tune a turbo bike by yourself and have a power commander and auto tune you should buy the pod 300. The pod 300 lets you data log. You will want to data log you wot pulls and your cruise to make sure everything is tuned. On a turbo bike I would add fuel in before even tuning. Rather have it be to rich and foul out a plug then lean and melt it down. For tuning a nitrous bike you want a good solid na tune first. Then what I do is for ever 10 hp nitrous Iam spraying I add 10 in the column where the nitrous will be used. For me this has worked great and bike has never been lean doing it that way. And if your going to use auto tune and tune the bike yourself some keys things you should do. Find a smooth flat road, try and use 3rd or 4th gear, tune one throttle percentage column at a time and start low throttle and work your way up to wot. That’s what I have done and it has worked fine for me. Iam forced to do this myself as nobody in my area can really tune a bike for poop. I brought my turbo bike to get tuned local and its lean in boost and stupid rich when cruising and at idle. So if you don’t know much about tuning and how to use power commander find someone to tune the bike for you. I would love to send my bike to Frank or Rob but shipping is expensive that I would rather ship it to them when I have the money to build the motor and do a tune.
 

Mythos

Registered
So how exactly do you tune with a pcv?
Do you have to use s computer?
Can you do the same as ecu editor or woolich?
Yes, you velcro a laptop on the fuel tank. You don't have to do that but that's the fastest way to do it. You can do the same with Woolwich. It will cost more than a DJ setup however. You're paying for the use of the flash software instead of just buying modules.

Should be able to set it to say for example something like an initial 10 AFR for safety and jus tune it leaner as it learns to say a 13 AFR, maybe take some timing out to if the pcv does that and have it dialed in later on a dyno?
As others mentioned, 10 AFR is way too rich. You would spend months trying to tune from rich to lean and there would be no purpose to that. Just go for 13 AFR or whatever is recommended for the busa. A good tuner knows how various Throttle positions and rpm relate to AFR. Solid 13 won't give you the best performance at all TPs/rpm. Generally speaking, richer makes better torque at low rpm but this is still a mystery to me exactly what AFR to have at what TP/rpm.

The auto tune isn’t that fast so on a turbo bike you will go thru the Rpms very quick and the auto tune won’t be read it.
Autotune reads 10x/second. This is fast enough but very slow compared to higher end equipment out there. You need to make 3 or 4 runs at the same TP to get the AFR spot on.

Obviously this entails a huge risk on the road where the bike will do 100 mph very easily at 20% throttle.

I suggest using 6th gear to slow the climb of the rpm. This gives Autotune more time sample.


If your going to tune a turbo bike by yourself and have a power commander and auto tune you should buy the pod 300.
You don't need to for NA but data logs will definitely show tiny lean spots that are happening too fast for Autotune to catch. I see them in my data logs even though my AFR registers as it should on the AFR gauge and I have no corrections being suggested by Autotune.

And if your going to use auto tune and tune the bike yourself some keys things you should do. Find a smooth flat road, try and use 3rd or 4th gear, tune one throttle percentage column at a time and start low throttle and work your way up to wot. That’s what I have done and it has worked fine for me.
Exactly my technique. I' will add to that, "DO NOT roll OFF the throttle." Snap to desired TP and hold to redline. Pull clutch lever and only then release throttle. Otherwise, let the throttle spring back on it's own but I have found that can be risky at 180 mph. I really do not suggest it.

Also I must add, "watch out for police." You will go to jail if you get caught.

I use 1st and 2nd gear too tune the very small TP from idle to about 4000 rpm. Then I use 6th gear to tune 3000 rpm to redline overwriting the low end 3000~4000 rpm tune I made previously. It works.

Problem is there is a different fuel map for each gear so 1st and 2nd gear tuning is a little different than 6th gear. I still had good results. It is possible to tune/gear with Autotune and I will try this in the future.

Finally, a flash will address timing adjustments which are equally important as fueling. To DIY, you will also need to throw in an ignition module or get the PC5+Ignition that is now available. I believe ignition timing is a rather complex matter on a busa as it is one of the main aspects of restricting the bike for safety. It probably works differently in different gears maps. It makes locking the ECU to one gear map make more sense. If you think optimum AFR is a mystery, timing adjustments -----total mystery unless you can see the stock timing maps on the busa. You cannot with DJ. IDK if Woolwich is capable of doing this. Woolwich cannot for ZX-14 timing maps. You go buy what others tell you is safe and hope they are right.

That's why most people just go with a flash these days. A lot less time spent acquiring knowledge but one heck of a lot simpler and safer. Also, a flash derestricts or adjusts other things that a DJ setup cannot.
 

AsleepAtTheTree

Registered
I don’t think you can shoot for a 10afr. I think 11 afr is the richest you can shoot for. The auto tune isn’t that fast so on a turbo bike you will go thru the Rpms very quick and the auto tune won’t be read it. If your going to tune a turbo bike by yourself and have a power commander and auto tune you should buy the pod 300. The pod 300 lets you data log. You will want to data log you wot pulls and your cruise to make sure everything is tuned. On a turbo bike I would add fuel in before even tuning. Rather have it be to rich and foul out a plug then lean and melt it down. For tuning a nitrous bike you want a good solid na tune first. Then what I do is for ever 10 hp nitrous Iam spraying I add 10 in the column where the nitrous will be used. For me this has worked great and bike has never been lean doing it that way. And if your going to use auto tune and tune the bike yourself some keys things you should do. Find a smooth flat road, try and use 3rd or 4th gear, tune one throttle percentage column at a time and start low throttle and work your way up to wot. That’s what I have done and it has worked fine for me. Iam forced to do this myself as nobody in my area can really tune a bike for poop. I brought my turbo bike to get tuned local and its lean in boost and stupid rich when cruising and at idle. So if you don’t know much about tuning and how to use power commander find someone to tune the bike for you. I would love to send my bike to Frank or Rob but shipping is expensive that I would rather ship it to them when I have the money to build the motor and do a tune.
Man thats some great info there:super::thumbsup::thumbsup::bowdown:

Thank you for your perspective!!!!
 

AsleepAtTheTree

Registered
Yes, you velcro a laptop on the fuel tank. You don't have to do that but that's the fastest way to do it. You can do the same with Woolwich. It will cost more than a DJ setup however. You're paying for the use of the flash software instead of just buying modules.


As others mentioned, 10 AFR is way too rich. You would spend months trying to tune from rich to lean and there would be no purpose to that. Just go for 13 AFR or whatever is recommended for the busa. A good tuner knows how various Throttle positions and rpm relate to AFR. Solid 13 won't give you the best performance at all TPs/rpm. Generally speaking, richer makes better torque at low rpm but this is still a mystery to me exactly what AFR to have at what TP/rpm.


Autotune reads 10x/second. This is fast enough but very slow compared to higher end equipment out there. You need to make 3 or 4 runs at the same TP to get the AFR spot on.

Obviously this entails a huge risk on the road where the bike will do 100 mph very easily at 20% throttle.

I suggest using 6th gear to slow the climb of the rpm. This gives Autotune more time sample.




You don't need to for NA but data logs will definitely show tiny lean spots that are happening too fast for Autotune to catch. I see them in my data logs even though my AFR registers as it should on the AFR gauge and I have no corrections being suggested by Autotune.



Exactly my technique. I' will add to that, "DO NOT roll OFF the throttle." Snap to desired TP and hold to redline. Pull clutch lever and only then release throttle. Otherwise, let the throttle spring back on it's own but I have found that can be risky at 180 mph. I really do not suggest it.

Also I must add, "watch out for police." You will go to jail if you get caught.

I use 1st and 2nd gear too tune the very small TP from idle to about 4000 rpm. Then I use 6th gear to tune 3000 rpm to redline overwriting the low end 3000~4000 rpm tune I made previously. It works.

Problem is there is a different fuel map for each gear so 1st and 2nd gear tuning is a little different than 6th gear. I still had good results. It is possible to tune/gear with Autotune and I will try this in the future.

Finally, a flash will address timing adjustments which are equally important as fueling. To DIY, you will also need to throw in an ignition module or get the PC5+Ignition that is now available. I believe ignition timing is a rather complex matter on a busa as it is one of the main aspects of restricting the bike for safety. It probably works differently in different gears maps. It makes locking the ECU to one gear map make more sense. If you think optimum AFR is a mystery, timing adjustments -----total mystery unless you can see the stock timing maps on the busa. You cannot with DJ. IDK if Woolwich is capable of doing this. Woolwich cannot for ZX-14 timing maps. You go buy what others tell you is safe and hope they are right.

That's why most people just go with a flash these days. A lot less time spent acquiring knowledge but one heck of a lot simpler and safer. Also, a flash derestricts or adjusts other things that a DJ setup cannot.
WOW!!!:super::thumbsup::bowdown::beerchug: what a write up!!!!

Loads of knowledge!!!! Great techniques!!!!

Its hard for me to even reply!!!

This is why I love this forum and annoyingly post so frequently!!!! Thanks for the info my friend:race:
 

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