PCii/iii and TRE/ATRE

super851

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I have a PCii on my 01 busa along with an ATRE (active able to choose gear maps); since the tre/atre is suppose to trick the computer to think that it is in the 5th gear map so that you can bypass the restrictor and gain full power to the first three gears, what happens when you add a power commander? And will that defeat the purpose of the tre/atre? Thanks
 
I was thinking that myself, but I'm sure that there are people who are more knowledgable thank myself on this matter that is a member of this board. Thanks for your input!
 
The TRE, active or inactive, and the PC are completely different units that accomplish completely different things. Do some searches on the board and there are numerous postings regarding this but this is the quick and dirty version.

TRE makes the ECU think the bike is in a different gear than it is, usually 5th, So the limiting functions of the 6th gear 186 mph limiter are removed (fuel cutoff, rev limiter, etc.). The TRE also removes the timing retarding that is built into 1st-3rd gear to control the bikes bottom end power. The result of adding a TRE from most perspectives is smoother drivablility in the lower gears and top end restriction gone. Although ask yourself if you will truly ever hit it, I have one but probably never will. Important to note that the active TRE in my opinion is better and is the one I use. It allows some flexibility and leaves the nuetral map alone.

The PCII doesn't have timing features so it's only purpose is to adjust the fuel map that the factory ECU uses to be more efficient for your particular set-up. This does not allow you to have a unique map for each gear just to make the same changes across all the maps the ECU uses.

A couple of notes:
1st-3rd factory timing retarding is in the 1000-4000 RPM and 0-40% throttle range only, WOT means no retarding with or without the TRE.
To eliminate timing retarder and top-end restriction use the 5th gear map and ALL selection on your active TRE, use 4th map for just timing retard elimination on 1st-3rd.
 
I think the TRE/ATRE fools the PC and would defeat the purpose of the PC!
The TRE can do nothing to the PC. The PC simply makes plus or minus changes to the ECU fuel map curves that the bike is using. The TRE simply does what is described above.
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I ALWAYS GET GREAT INFO FROM YOU GUYS AS WELL .... YALL ARE THE BEST ,,, IM STILL LEARNING BOUT THE BUSA AS WELL....
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TRE = Timing Retard Eleminator, it is used to take the restriction off off your bike that is put there by the mfg's.
 
The TRE, active or inactive, and the PC are completely different units that accomplish completely different things. Do some searches on the board and there are numerous postings regarding this but this is the quick and dirty version.

TRE makes the ECU think the bike is in a different gear than it is, usually 5th, So the limiting functions of the 6th gear 186 mph limiter are removed (fuel cutoff, rev limiter, etc.). The TRE also removes the timing retarding that is built into 1st-3rd gear to control the bikes bottom end power. The result of adding a TRE from most perspectives is smoother drivablility in the lower gears and top end restriction gone. Although ask yourself if you will truly ever hit it, I have one but probably never will. Important to note that the active TRE in my opinion is better and is the one I use. It allows some flexibility and leaves the nuetral map alone.

The PCII doesn't have timing features so it's only purpose is to adjust the fuel map that the factory ECU uses to be more efficient for your particular set-up. This does not allow you to have a unique map for each gear just to make the same changes across all the maps the ECU uses.

A couple of notes:
1st-3rd factory timing retarding is in the 1000-4000 RPM and 0-40% throttle range only, WOT means no retarding with or without the TRE.
To eliminate timing retarder and top-end restriction use the 5th gear map and ALL selection on your active TRE, use 4th map for just timing retard elimination on 1st-3rd.
Well said...
 
This does not allow you to have a unique map for each gear just to make the same changes across all the maps the ECU uses.
Just for clarity on a Busa because I'm a NEWBIE with bike stuff.

Doesn't the PC link between/through the ECU therefore running in conjunction with each other?
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If the TRE tricks the ECU wouldn't it also trick the PC adjustments? I guess I just thought the PC had the ability to adjust timing? That is were I thought the PC/TRE would be a factor!

I guess what I am asking is, I have a custom map on my PC III but I want to keep the top speed limiter removed! Can I simply plug in the TRE and it NOT affect my PC adjustments, HP/TQ numbers, 1/4 mile, and 1-mile times?

Just wanted to make this clear for other NEWBIES like myself.

Thanks guys,

Josh
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If you tune your bike's Power commander on a dyno, then your tuning the bike period. The tre/atre being plugged in will not affect it either way. Two different things.
 
Thanks Icamann I use "Iceman" as my dj name, I notice that you are from back east my home is Philly, damn them eagles!
 
This does not allow you to have a unique map for each gear just to make the same changes across all the maps the ECU uses.
Just for clarity on a Busa because I'm a NEWBIE with bike stuff.

Doesn't the PC link between/through the ECU therefore running in conjunction with each other?
rock.gif
?

If the TRE tricks the ECU wouldn't it also trick the PC adjustments?  I guess I just thought the PC had the ability to adjust timing?  That is were I thought the PC/TRE would be a factor!

I guess what I am asking is, I have a custom map on my PC III but I want to keep the top speed limiter removed!  Can I simply plug in the TRE and it NOT affect my PC adjustments, HP/TQ numbers, 1/4 mile, and 1-mile times?  

Just wanted to make this clear for other NEWBIES like myself.

Thanks guys,

Josh
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The PCII & PCIIIR are different. The PCIIIR adds the ability to adjust timing as well as fuel changes. The TRE interupts the GPS (Gear Position Sensor) that goes to the ECU, the PC interupts the other side. Both devices are making adjustments to the factory ECU data, they cannot make adjustments between eachother, ie. PC to TRE or backwards. These are simply manipulating signals that the ECU uses to acomplish its goal.

You can just plug your TRE in without any effect on your PC. However, you could have a problem if your custom PC map has timing adjustments made to it as well. If you have timing map changes and add the TRE you can run into the problem of stacking timing advances which could harm the engine or performance. For example, if you add timing advances to your map and then plug in a TRE, you have now eliminated the factory timing retard 1st-3rd (back to zero timing), plus added timing advance (above zero) to 1st-6th. Now that my brain is numb this is what it would look like:

FACTORY:
1st (-)5 degrees timing (1000rpm-4000rpm & 0%-40% throttle)
2nd DITTO
3rd DITTO
4th (0) degrees timing
5th DITTO
6th DITTO

PC (w/(+)5 degrees timing adjustment just for discussion sake) &TRE:
1st (+)5 degrees timing
2nd DITTO
3rd DITTO
4th DITTO
5th DITTO
6th DITTO

Where you had (-) timing effects from the factory in 1st-3rd and (0) in 4th-6th, now you have (+) timing effects in all 6 gears. Someone else will have to advise on how this could effect the engine or performance, but it will.

The PC simply adds or takes away incrimental fuel to the fuel map that the bike is using. But whatever you set the PC at is what every gear will get for added or subtracted fuel adjustments.
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What a working over I just gave myself, I feel like Clark Griswold on National Lampoon's Xmas Vacation after he got his year end bonus, "jelly of the month club", and went on a rant.  
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