One Thread - Multiple Issues (front Brakes/idle/spark Plugs)

[Shaun Ketterman]

Hey Folks,



Don’t know if it’s best to do it this way, but I didn’t want to create a bunch of threads if I could just use one as a running log for troubleshooting a couple issues.


Making some good progress on the 07 Busa since I bought it, but still have the following issues to work out:


1. Idle – Since I bought the bike 2 weeks ago, it’s had a fairly rough idle. At running temp, in neutral/clutch pulled, the idle will fluctuate by ~300RPM on a constant basis. I also tested it in 2nd gear, going about 20MPH, and even if I hold the throttle steady, it still does it. The bike will gently lurch forward without any change in throttle, and then back down again, constantly. So far I’ve ran a few bottle of SeaFoam in the gas, I’ve manually cleaned out all 4 throttle body’s (sea foam on a rag, wiped them down, and also sucked some into the vacuum hose, hot soaked it for 10, etc), new air filter, new spark plugs, oil and filter. None of these have solved the issue. Is this the way Busa’s idle? Am I trying to fix something that isn’t broken?


2. Front Brakes – This one is pissing me off. So over the weekend, I did a bunch of maintenance on the bike. All the stuff above plus fork oil, fork seals, replaced clutch and brake fluid, took the calipers apart and scrubbed them completely with degreaser, cleaned all the brake parts with brake cleaner, and put it all back together.


Got the bike put back together last night around midnight. Woke up this morning, went for a ride, front brake performance was terrible. Worse than the rear brakes. When I got home, I noticed the right side rotor was covered in black residue (oil, fluid, don’t know). So I took the calipers off the front, removed the pads. They were black. Cleaned them, roughed them up with some sandpaper, scrubbed them some more. Scrubbed the rotors to get all the crap off of them, and put it all back together. Went for another ride, front brakes still bad. Got home, and now the right side rotor looks like this:

Definitely looks like one of the pads is somehow covered in oil/grease/something again. Is this indicative of a leaky caliper? This wasn’t happening before the weekend. Brakes were great. When I took the calipers apart, brake fluid went everywhere. I had a 2012 Ninja which did not do this when I took the caliper apart, so I don’t know if this is normal for a Busa or not. If that is the case, maybe I didn’t torque the star bolts tight enough, and brake fluid is seeping onto that one pad? I checked my fork seals for leakage, they are perfect, and I don't have any motor oil leaking anywhere that I can see. Brake fluid is the only thing I can possible imagine is the culprit, but...??



3. Spark plugs – Do old plugs look this dark?

Guy at the dealership claimed he swapped them out prior to selling, and I’ve put a couple hundred miles on it at most. The exhaust on the bike when I bought it was just straight pipes. No muffler, so I suspect that may be contributing. I will say, though, that even with a set of cans on there, the smell from my exhaust is very strong. I’m wondering if I am running rich, and if so, what I should look at for troubleshooting?

As always, any and all info is greatly appreciated! Thanks for reading,


Shaun

 

[nosbig]

I can't help with most of your issues, but those are not new plugs. Even if you were having motor problems the top of the plug would be cleaner. I would guess you have the original plugs there.

As far as your brakes go, I would think you need to back up and punt. Start over and double check everything as you rebuild them again. With calipers it can be as simple as a seal put in upside-down.

 

[Shaun Ketterman]

My thoughts exactly. I just got done pulling the calipers apart, disconnecting the brake lines, everything, and put it all back together.

So now when I pump my brake lever, it's not building any pressure. I can hear a sloshy-ish sound coming from the brake lever after I pump it a bunch of time.

I noticed that the bolts that connect the brake lines to the calipers have built-in holes for the fluid to traverse. How exactly do you get those to line up properly so that when the bolt is fully tightened they line up properly? I think I bolted those lines up wrong and now I can't get any pressure.

 

[nosbig]

There is no lining them up. Jus the correct torque. (Can't remember off the top of my head what specs are, sorry.) May have so much air in the system that you will need a vacuum bleeder to get it out.

 

[Shaun Ketterman]

That was the problem. Bled the hell putt them, lever is good now. Still same issue with brakes though. I stripped 2 of the 4 star bolts on the right caliper. Going to have to find a way to get them off and replace them. I suspect that will fix
the issue.

Hopefully someone can chime in on the idling issue too.

Does your bike idle smoothly?

 

[nosbig]

My bike is smooth as silk. Have you ran it after the new plugs?

 

[Shaun Ketterman]

Yeah, that's why I brought it up here. I've done pretty much everything I can think of to address it, but it's still funky. Actually, a TB sync could be the issue now that I think about it.

 

[GIXERHP]

The plugs are Not new,, as for your brakes,, it looks like you have a Brake fluid leak, it is fluid and heat that is making the black mark on the rotor, As well as you can see the fluid on the tire!
When you took the calipers apart, did you replace the seals?

Now as far the idle, sound like a throttle body sync is very much needed!

 

[sixpack577]

Once you fix the caliper leak, and bleed the brakes, zip tie the brake lever to the bar overnight, and bleed again(cardboard around the grip keeps from damaging it).
That will get all the air out of the lines.

 

[VIPER]

I will ad my 2 cents in here. You need new pads! Once they have brake fluid on them they are junk. Replace them. Next, the plugs are not new, replace them as well. I question, does this bike have a power commander on it? If not it may need one or it may need some ecu editing. Sounds like to me, someone abused the machine pretty badly. Those plugs look like oem off a machine running way way rich. But i could be mistaken.

 

[Shaun Ketterman]

There is no lining them up. Jus the correct torque. (Can't remember off the top of my head what specs are, sorry.) May have so much air in the system that you will need a vacuum bleeder to get it out.

This was good info. I made a HELL of a mess trying to hold those 2 cables straight while tightening that bolt. I overthunk it. Got the brake lines attached, bled them, and the brake feel is good.

The plugs are Not new,, as for your brakes,, it looks like you have a Brake fluid leak, it is fluid and heat that is making the black mark on the rotor, As well as you can see the fluid on the tire!
When you took the calipers apart, did you replace the seals?

Now as far the idle, sound like a throttle body sync is very much needed!

I didn't replace those seals, but my intent at this point is to pick up a couple of caliper rebuild kits. I want to pull the pistons out and replace all the seals because these calipers are filthy internally, so might as well get it done properly. The brake fluid on the tire in the photo isn't actually from a leak in the caliper, it's from me making a huge mess of things in my garage :-) A TB sync is also on my list of things to do.

Once you fix the caliper leak, and bleed the brakes, zip tie the brake lever to the bar overnight, and bleed again(cardboard around the grip keeps from damaging it).
That will get all the air out of the lines.

Right now my brake lever feel is good, but I'll keep this in mind for next time if needed. Thanks!

I will ad my 2 cents in here. You need new pads! Once they have brake fluid on them they are junk. Replace them. Next, the plugs are not new, replace them as well. I question, does this bike have a power commander on it? If not it may need one or it may need some ecu editing. Sounds like to me, someone abused the machine pretty badly. Those plugs look like oem off a machine running way way rich. But i could be mistaken.

I figured the plugs were old, just wanted to get some opinions here because this is mostly new to me haha. I replaced them over the weekend. I assumed my bike was running super rich though. The smell from the exhaust fumes is VERY strong. What are ways to remedy that?

No power commander on this bike (may have been in the past, I don't know). And yeah, I think this bike was beat to hell as well. Runs great, but it needs a lot of TLC, which I'm working on. I'm going to look into the ECU editing. What are the things to do with that? Adjust A/F and such?


Man this site is awesome. Much thanks to everyone for the replies so far. Looking forward to getting this bike fully reconditioned.


Shaun

 

[VIPER]

It needs to spend some time on a dyno machine. This will fix all the running rich issues etc. See if you can find a shop that will tune via ecu...If not you will need a power commander and still need dyno time. This will fix or really limit the running rich.

 

[Shaun Ketterman]

It needs to spend some time on a dyno machine. This will fix all the running rich issues etc. See if you can find a shop that will tune via ecu...If not you will need a power commander and still need dyno time. This will fix or really limit the running rich.

Forgive me as I'm not familiar with tuning.

1. If I find a shop that can tune the bike, they will hook it up to a dyno, get results, and modify my ECU based on those results?

2. If I purchase a power commander, I can manually dial in the ECU settings? But then I would still need the dyno for what purpose? To ensure everything is properly configured?

 

[sixpack577]

This was good info. I made a HELL of a mess trying to hold those 2 cables straight while tightening that bolt. I overthunk it. Got the brake lines attached, bled them, and the brake feel is good.





I didn't replace those seals, but my intent at this point is to pick up a couple of caliper rebuild kits. I want to pull the pistons out and replace all the seals because these calipers are filthy internally, so might as well get it done properly. The brake fluid on the tire in the photo isn't actually from a leak in the caliper, it's from me making a huge mess of things in my garage :-) A TB sync is also on my list of things to do.




Right now my brake lever feel is good, but I'll keep this in mind for next time if needed. Thanks!

Even if the lever feels good now, clamping it overnight and bleeding again gets ALL the air out, and improves lever feel.



I figured the plugs were old, just wanted to get some opinions here because this is mostly new to me haha. I replaced them over the weekend. I assumed my bike was running super rich though. The smell from the exhaust fumes is VERY strong. What are ways to remedy that?

No power commander on this bike (may have been in the past, I don't know). And yeah, I think this bike was beat to hell as well. Runs great, but it needs a lot of TLC, which I'm working on. I'm going to look into the ECU editing. What are the things to do with that? Adjust A/F and such?


Man this site is awesome. Much thanks to everyone for the replies so far. Looking forward to getting this bike fully reconditioned.


Shaun

On

 

[VIPER]

Forgive me as I'm not familiar with tuning.

1. If I find a shop that can tune the bike, they will hook it up to a dyno, get results, and modify my ECU based on those results?

2. If I purchase a power commander, I can manually dial in the ECU settings? But then I would still need the dyno for what purpose? To ensure everything is properly configured?

Shaun, you will need dyno time no matter whether you do ecu or pc. In order to do it correctly you need to have some dyno time to get the programming correct.

 

[Shaun Ketterman]

Shaun, you will need dyno time no matter whether you do ecu or pc. In order to do it correctly you need to have some dyno time to get the programming correct.

Gotcha. Thanks for the info man. So I've found a couple of places that do dyno tunes in my area (San Diego). I'm going to see if I can get some quotes from them this weekend.

 

[VIPER]

average i have seen here and there is around 300 to 400 bucks for a custom tune. If you need a pc5 add another 350ish or so.

 

[Shaun Ketterman]

...Now as far the idle, sound like a throttle body sync is very much needed!

So I just got done synching the throttle body's. I used a "Carbtune Pro 4". Worked pretty well, and I got all 4 levels really close, though there were still some fluctuations. I followed the guide Jinkster posted (https://www.hayabusa.org/forum/threads/jinksters-how-to-synch-your-busa.35030/)

After all was said and done, my idle still blips on its own constantly. Not sure if it needs a valve adjustment, fuel filter/pump, dirty ass injectors, no idea. I've put about 4 full cans of Berrymans B-12 Chemtool in the tank so far, and have cleaned out the throttle bodys with CRC Throttle Body cleaner, including spraying it directly into the TBs and letting it soak for a while. They still appear to be pretty dirty though. Though I will say this thing is running substantially better today than it did the day I bought it. Night and day difference, so that's a start.

Once you fix the caliper leak, and bleed the brakes, zip tie the brake lever to the bar overnight, and bleed again(cardboard around the grip keeps from damaging it).
That will get all the air out of the lines.

After a bunch of screw ups I've managed to stop the leak, I think. I've got 2 full sets of new caliper bolts on the way, as well as 2 full sets of new piston/caliper seals, and new pads. Once it all gets here I plan to tear down both calipers completely, clean the fxck out of them, and rebuild them. Put on the new pads, get them properly bedded in and see how I fare. Hopefully that will solve my braking issues.

average i have seen here and there is around 300 to 400 bucks for a custom tune. If you need a pc5 add another 350ish or so.

I'm going to put the dyno on hold and get a valve adjustment done first. Before I hit the dyno, I want to make sure all the maintenance stuff has been taken care of so I can rule it all out. I think that makes the most sense? So I still need the valve adjustment (if they need it), and fuel filter. I believe the valve adjustment will likely include fresh coolant since they will probably remove the radiator, which will address the final fluid change. The best price I've found locally is $460.00 out the door for a full adjustment.

 

[sixpack577]

If u can do brakes, you can adjust valves.
Download the service manual, and ask any questions here.
Save your labor money for parts and/or tools.
And if you don't have a mighty vac for the brakes, get one.
Or, you can buy a horse syringe(no needle)at any farm supply store. Put a clear hose on, and use it to push brake fluid through the lines. They cost about $2, and work good.

 

[Shaun Ketterman]

If u can do brakes, you can adjust valves.
Download the service manual, and ask any questions here.
Save your labor money for parts and/or tools.
And if you don't have a mighty vac for the brakes, get one.
Or, you can buy a horse syringe(no needle)at any farm supply store. Put a clear hose on, and use it to push brake fluid through the lines. They cost about $2, and work good.

I've got a Clymer manual on the way, and do have a mityvac. Im told the Clymer manuals are good...if the photos are decent I may give it a shot. This is my daily driver, though, so if I mess something up...lol.