OK, got to get this off my chest...

[moondog]

In this day and age of ultra-tech materials and engineering, why would anyone buy a harley? I am not hatin', just posing the question.....Here in Fayetteville, we just came through four days of bikes, blues and BBQ. 300,000 people, 100,000 motorcycles. This is a mainly harley and clone meet, very few of any other type of motorcycle. The air was so clogged with half burnt fuel from these sputtering dinosaurs it was hard to breath. Damn things broken down all over the place. Sunday morning, Dixon street literally had oil running down the gutters. But I can deal with that. What I find unacceptable is the attitude of the typical harley rider, so far off from the rest of the motorcycling world. It is truley the "look at me" generation of bad boy dentists gone wild. Don't get me wrong, I have respect for the hard core guys. Anyone that can ride 1000 miles on a machine held together with duct tape and bailing wire is ok in my book, but even they looked befuddled....I just don't get it. Compare this to the Copper Mountain, Co. cyclefest where it was hard to find a harley. No smell of wet dogs, just clean running, highly tuned, high tech motorcycles and high tech gear. More importantly, forward thinking, courteous people and great non-intoxicated conversation. Huge difference. Huge.....these are my ramblings, I realize this and a dollar will get you a cup of coffee....just had to get it out! By the way: Jesus DID NOT ride a harley....I asked last night.



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[Mr Brown]

One reason: MARKETING!
You gotta respect a marketing department that effectively created a demand for an over-priced, technologically inferior product, to the extent that dealer mark-ups are the norm, and a waiting list forms.
That and all the poser-loser owners are stupid enough to believe the hype. Seriously I know guys that bought these bikes with the express intent of getting laid. It's incredible to me that they really believe it, then get mad and sell the bike when it doesn't come to fruition.

 

[Devious]

This should be good............

 

[mobusa]

Not even worth the time to respond.  Just see Previous Harley Bashing posts!  

 

[mjn]

Not even worth the time to respond.  Just see Previous Harley Bashing posts!  

+1

 

[WWJD]

Seriously I know guys that bought these bikes with the express intent of getting laid.

That works. You guys are underestimating the subliminal power of a "cool grumbling" sounding bike attached with the bad boy reputation - even if that no longer exists today - the women LOVE it. They swoon at the sound.... the call of the wild... which is really EXACTLY what it is. Deep, DEEP down women want protection from a guy who is able to kick but and a rumbling bike and black leather suggests that. Think about it. In the animal kingdom, the lion's roar and ferocious look makes him the alpha king of the jungle. Women STILL fall for that.... the bad guy with the tatoo is HARSHER and better at beating away danger than some prissy necktie wearing white collared sissy-man. That's also why guys BUY Harley's to get BACK that feeling of being strong and independant - since society and career's main focus is to strip AWAY that level of non-conformity and make us fall into the machine. Harley is a quick way to get that feeling back. ALMOST everyone woman I know loves the SOUND of a Harley - because it wakes up the feeling of protection from a bad boy - whether they know it or not. Do not discount the emotions behind the [lucky] design of the Harley... or any low and loud cruiser for that matter. Women DO like it. Although I have no experience in this form, I suspect it could get someone laid.

I totally agree the marketing is glamming over the bad quality, but I think HD is doing better these days. I still see them broken down on the side of the road, but not as many as a few years ago. And I see many more nice ones out riding too.

They are not my cup-o-tea and I do worry about the NEW riders hurting themselves.... IF I ever get a cruiser style it will be a Honda or something KNOWN to be of lasting quality



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[A'Busa'd]

I've had the opposite experience. Most Harley owners that I have met are pretty cool. It's the bad ones that stand out. I'd say it's the same for the sportbike crowd as well.

As for the bikes themselves, Harleys are decent machines nowdays. Not nearly the oil leaking, smoke belching, pigs of the past. Definately not the choice for most members on this board, myself included, but good for what they are.

 

[moondog]

Just trying to get a grip on the mental aspect. Looks like an incredibly expensive pen*s extention to me....?

 

[yamahor]

Just trying to get a grip on the mental aspect. Looks like an incredibly expensive pen*s extention to me....?

My thoughts exactly. I used to want a Hardly, then I got smart and actually rode a Busa, now that I'm into SportBikes, F the harleys.

 

[StageRulz]

WhoooooooooPiiigSooooooWeeeeee!

 

[Con5179]

understandable.

 

[thunder]

between this thread and the other H-D bashing thread, some of You guys need to take a step back and look at things.

1) Quality: You will not find better paint or chrome on any other mass produced motorcycle built. as far as mechanical reliability goes H-D's warranty service is still around 4%. This is not an unreliable motorcycle. the chances are the ones that are broke that you see are usually Highly or improperly modified and owner mantained.

2) Yes the price is high but so is the resale. The quality of the parts (OEM & Screamin Eagle) are top rate.

3) The dealerships. You guys (haters) don't like the lifestyle thing but how would You like to be able to walk into a Suzuki dealership and have a choice of any factory and/or aftermarket part or accessory for Your busa. The H-D guys have this option. B!tch all You want but for the most part MOST H-D dealerships have the best Tech's, knowledgeable parts people, and good sales people.

How do I know this? since 1973 I have owned personaly over 3 dozen Harley's, Owned 2 aftermarket shops, and owned 1 H-D dealership along with working at a H-D dealership for 5 years. I just turned 50 and have been riding since the age of 12. The hating on H-D's is a waste of Your energy the H-D guys don't know that We (sport riders) exist or care. They live in Thier "life style" and could care less what we think of them or thier bikes.



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[Projekt]

I think that the only explanation I would use is: "Hey man, Chics Dig it!"
Even though I don't own one I still find myself defending them to non-americans bad mouthing them here in Europe. If it wasn't for the Rune I would own one.

 

[1127 TO 1299]

Seriously I know guys that bought these bikes with the express intent of getting laid.

That works. You guys are underestimating the subliminal power of a "cool grumbling" sounding bike attached with the bad boy reputation - even if that no longer exists today - the women LOVE it. They swoon at the sound.... the call of the wild... which is really EXACTLY what it is. Deep, DEEP down women want protection from a guy who is able to kick but and a rumbling bike and black leather suggests that. Think about it. In the animal kingdom, the lion's roar and ferocious look makes him the alpha king of the jungle. Women STILL fall for that.... the bad guy with the tatoo is HARSHER and better at beating away danger than some prissy necktie wearing white collared sissy-man. That's also why guys BUY Harley's to get BACK that feeling of being strong and independant - since society and career's main focus is to strip AWAY that level of non-conformity and make us fall into the machine. Harley is a quick way to get that feeling back. ALMOST everyone woman I know loves the SOUND of a Harley - because it wakes up the feeling of protection from a bad boy - whether they know it or not. Do not discount the emotions behind the [lucky] design of the Harley... or any low and loud cruiser for that matter. Women DO like it. Although I have no experience in this form, I suspect it could get someone laid.

I totally agree the marketing is glamming over the bad quality, but I think HD is doing better these days. I still see them broken down on the side of the road, but not as many as a few years ago. And I see many more nice ones out riding too.

They are not my cup-o-tea and I do worry about the NEW riders hurting themselves.... IF I ever get a cruiser style it will be a Honda or something KNOWN to be of lasting quality

That's why I got the D&D slip ons

 

[Mr Brown]

Thunder,
I'm not a HD hater by any means, however
1) Japanese companies offer a superior product at a lower price. The ONLY reason to buy a HD is for the name. Fit and finish on HD is not superior to that of any major manufacturer's high end bikes. Ever check out a Rune?
2) The parts are way overpriced, but that's because that's what the market will hold. Due entirely to excellent marketing. I've no idea about the quality, so I'll take your word for it.
3) there are many aftermarket outlets available for all sportbikes, please don't act like we're all riding around on stock bikes here! The techs should be knowledgeable, the technology hasn't changed since the 50's. the sales staff is considered great because it is easy to sell a drug to addicts. they have a captive audience, thanks yet again to the marketing guys.
4) The lifestyle you say? Buying a do-rag, tank top and boots all emblazoned with the logo does not constitute living a lifestyle as far as I am concerned, if 1/2 the people that owned some type of HD gear actually owned a bike, or even knew how to ride I would agree that they were buying into a lifestyle, but the reality is that they are buying into a perception. They want people to think that they are living the outlaw life, but the reality is far from that in most cases.
I don't hate HD riders, but I do think that a higher percentage of those guys/gals would qualify as posers than would sportbike owners. I also dislike the attitude that many of them seem to develop after purchasing one, almost as if they believe all the hype........

 

[Mr Brown]

WWJD,
I agree totally with what you said, but it's the image that these guys think the bike gives them that cracks me up. If you are a puss, no bike is gonna make you not a puss, regardless of how much leather you wear or how loud your exhaust is. Women know what they want in men, and the bike doesn't fool them for long.....

 

[05BUSABLU]

between this thread and the other H-D bashing thread, some of You guys need to take a step back and look at things.

1) Quality: You will not find better paint or chrome on any other mass produced motorcycle built. as far as mechanical reliability goes H-D's warranty service is still around 4%. This is not an unreliable motorcycle. the chances are the ones that are broke that you see are usually Highly or improperly modified and owner mantained.

2) Yes the price is high but so is the resale. The quality of the parts (OEM & Screamin Eagle) are top rate.

3) The dealerships. You guys (haters) don't like the lifestyle thing but how would You like to be able to walk into a Suzuki dealership and have a choice of any factory and/or aftermarket part or accessory for Your busa. The H-D guys have this option. B!tch all You want but for the most part MOST H-D dealerships have the best Tech's, knowledgeable parts people, and good sales people.

How do I know this? since 1973 I have owned personaly over 3 dozen Harley's, Owned 2 aftermarket shops, and owned 1 H-D dealership along with working at a H-D dealership for 5 years. I just turned 50 and have been riding since the age of 12. The hating on H-D's is a waste of Your energy the H-D guys don't know that We (sport riders) exist or care. They live in Thier "life style" and could care less what we think of them or thier bikes.

i must disagree. the resale is no longer what it used to be. and the quality isnt all that either, maybe triple plated. where as any good aftermarket chroming company uses 5 plated chroming. as far as being all american, wrong. my father builds bikes()well over 10 years now) because when he started working on his and my mothers fatboys, we noticed all the non american made parts being used.

the traditional all american harley is long gone....

and as far as the quality of squawkin chicken parts... bogus

aftermarket parts are more than readily available to us at the dealership.



i, and many subscribe to the thought of..what ever gets you in the wind


and i believe all the animosity between harley riders and sportbikers was indeed created by the harley crowd

just my opinion



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[Devious]

Thunder,
I'm not a HD hater by any means, however
1) Japanese companies offer a superior product at a lower price. The ONLY reason to buy a HD is for the name. Fit and finish on HD is not superior to that of any major manufacturer's high end bikes. Ever check out a Rune?
2) The parts are way overpriced, but that's because that's what the market will hold. Due entirely to excellent marketing. I've no idea about the quality, so I'll take your word for it.
3) there are many aftermarket outlets available for all sportbikes, please don't act like we're all riding around on stock bikes here! The techs should be knowledgeable, the technology hasn't changed since the 50's. the sales staff is considered great because it is easy to sell a drug to addicts. they have a captive audience, thanks yet again to the marketing guys.
4) The lifestyle you say? Buying a do-rag, tank top and boots all emblazoned with the logo does not constitute living a lifestyle as far as I am concerned, if 1/2 the people that owned some type of HD gear actually owned a bike, or even knew how to ride I would agree that they were buying into a lifestyle, but the reality is that they are buying into a perception. They want people to think that they are living the outlaw life, but the reality is far from that in most cases.
I don't hate HD riders, but I do think that a higher percentage of those guys/gals would qualify as posers than would sportbike owners. I also dislike the attitude that many of them seem to develop after purchasing one, almost as if they believe all the hype........

This part does seem to hold true. At least with the majority of H.D. owners I have come across. The vast majority are posers. There are a few, very few who are just normal guys that like a H.D. just for the sound, ride and so forth. But those are few and far between. I don't think they are drug addicts, just addicted to the lifestyle they are looking to buy into.



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[thunder]

Thunder,
I'm not a HD hater by any means, however
1) Japanese companies offer a superior product at a lower price. The ONLY reason to buy a HD is for the name. Fit and finish on HD is not superior to that of any major manufacturer's high end bikes. Ever check out a Rune?
2) The parts are way overpriced, but that's because that's what the market will hold. Due entirely to excellent marketing. I've no idea about the quality, so I'll take your word for it.
3) there are many aftermarket outlets available for all sportbikes, please don't act like we're all riding around on stock bikes here! The techs should be knowledgeable, the technology hasn't changed since the 50's. the sales staff is considered great because it is easy to sell a drug to addicts. they have a captive audience, thanks yet again to the marketing guys.
4) The lifestyle you say? Buying a do-rag, tank top and boots all emblazoned with the logo does not constitute living a lifestyle as far as I am concerned, if 1/2 the people that owned some type of HD gear actually owned a bike, or even knew how to ride I would agree that they were buying into a lifestyle, but the reality is that they are buying into a perception. They want people to think that they are living the outlaw life, but the reality is far from that in most cases.
I don't hate HD riders, but I do think that a higher percentage of those guys/gals would qualify as posers than would sportbike owners. I also dislike the attitude that many of them seem to develop after purchasing one, almost as if they believe all the hype........

1) The superior product is in the eye of the beholder. Check out the Finish (paint) on any brand x cruiser It will not hold up to or against a H-D.
2) over priced parts no, H-d OEM parts are no higher or lower than anyone else, accerories maybe but they do sell and most dealer keep a good stock vs most import dealers not stocking sh!t,went to 5 jap bike dealers and had to order a master link for my busa after having to look it up to give the parts guys the number cause most of them thought that the Busa didn't have one.
3) I am quite aware of the sportbike aftermarket unfourtunatly our dealers are not. As far as H-D technology goes and not changing since the 50's I'll try to overlook the fact that yes You are hating and have no knowledge od Harleys. I wasn't trying to even get into a p!ss!ng match over this just trying to give a answer to the question at hand from some one whos been there first hand. Don't know what happend to You to turn You so sour on Harleys but I'm sorry for Your attitude as it is so narrow minded that It is clouding the fact that there are quite a few cool bikes out there and Harley does make some.
4) Not condoning the "Lifestylers" but how are You or I any differant when all done up in a Two piece suit and full gear that at this time is our "lifestyle" Hating on the MO-Co for marketing thier product is not logical. Harley-Davidson is in business to turn a profit and see that thier dealers make money. Harley has accomplished what every other motorcycle manufactuer has dreamed of our own beloved SUZUKI istrying like crazy to emulate "old technology" and the "lifestyle" with the "Boulevard" series as is YAMAHA with the "STAR" series. There are posers on any type of bike and if You cruise all of the various boards You will find riders of all of the brands that belive the HYPE.... All BS aside I don't have a Harley anymore because the rarity is gone.

 

[mjn]

Thunder,
I'm not a HD hater by any means, however
1) Japanese companies offer a superior product at a lower price. The ONLY reason to buy a HD is for the name. Fit and finish on HD is not superior to that of any major manufacturer's high end bikes. Ever check out a Rune?
2) The parts are way overpriced, but that's because that's what the market will hold. Due entirely to excellent marketing. I've no idea about the quality, so I'll take your word for it.
3) there are many aftermarket outlets available for all sportbikes, please don't act like we're all riding around on stock bikes here! The techs should be knowledgeable, the technology hasn't changed since the 50's. the sales staff is considered great because it is easy to sell a drug to addicts. they have a captive audience, thanks yet again to the marketing guys.
4) The lifestyle you say? Buying a do-rag, tank top and boots all emblazoned with the logo does not constitute living a lifestyle as far as I am concerned, if 1/2 the people that owned some type of HD gear actually owned a bike, or even knew how to ride I would agree that they were buying into a lifestyle, but the reality is that they are buying into a perception. They want people to think that they are living the outlaw life, but the reality is far from that in most cases.
I don't hate HD riders, but I do think that a higher percentage of those guys/gals would qualify as posers than would sportbike owners. I also dislike the attitude that many of them seem to develop after purchasing one, almost as if they believe all the hype........

Mr. Brown, just a couple of dissagreements here....

Quality-ie; fit and finish?  I also worked at a multi-line m/c store for a time.  There is no comparison.  Period.  The Rune is a cool bike, no doubt.  But park a SE Fatboy next to it, then tell me that the paint, chrome, controls....(on and on) are of equal quality.
You won't be able to.  There is NO comparison.
Park a 12,000. VTX next to a 15,500. Wideglide...again, absolutely no comparison.

Don't get me wrong..the japenese bikes are largely more reliable....although not by much these days.

You are right, the available aftermarket accessories are a direct reflection of the bikes success...and lets be honest here, the performance of a stocker is....well, not too impressive, so those buyers that ARE performance minded must modify to make themselves happy.
But I can't count how many times a customer told me that they were'nt interested in going 150 mph...didn't really care how quick it was.  Just wanted a comfortable cruiser...one that, in thier minds had more status.  (Yes, marketing at work again

)
Yes, I agree that HD factory accessories are spendy...I also agree that it is partially due to popularity (marketing again!).  It also, however, has to do with the quality.  HD accessories are, without a doubt, the highest quality parts on the market for the HD product.  No exceptions.  
As far as the % of posers....yea, you could be right.  There probably are more posers on HD product than sportbikes....but not nearly as many as most folks think.
I have seen perfectly normal people turn into "barney badass" after the purchase of a new HD.....but I've also seen the same thing happen on import cruisers....
"the technology hasn't changed since the 50's"..Not true.  Although they have tried VERY hard to keep the "Look" the same...marketing again!  By keeping the look similar and yes some of the parts nearly the same..it makes it VERY easy for companies to make accessories for it.  The bars that fit on a '98 softail also fit on a '05 Roadking..

Believe me, I am not incinuating that there are not a fair amount of wannabe bad boys riding Harleys...there are.  But make no mistake, there are a LOT of real, hardcore motorcyle riders that choose the brand because of the ease of maintinence, familiarity,.........and just because they like 'em!

Lets face it, Harley does some cool shiat.  Latest Cycle World shows the new Screamin'Eagle V-Rod dragbike.  Complete with slick and wheelie bar.  175 hp liquid cooled twin.  Pretty dam cool if you ask me.

I guess the bottom line is, there is a lot of truth in what you say.  The Quality issue is not one of them.  Park 'em side by side and you will have to agree.  Otherwise you are blind.  

I still have tons of friends that ride harleys.  None of them have a problem riding with me.  They all shake thier head and wonder if I am sane........(am I?)  but they respect other machines.  I think the "other" type of HD riders is the minority.
Just my .02