Oil Pan part III

2

2hip

Registered
Orgsters...Pan pulled..working on getting a pan. But can we discuss the merits/demerits of some of the ideas submitted...
1. My neighbor, who is a Harley guy had his oil pan welded, plugged, tapped, and ba-da-bing...good as new
2. Is heli-coiling it even better than new? Some racers use it as being better than the regular oem if I understood the post correctly.
3. Go to a full race pan of 2 inches...but wouldn't that mean having that much less oil to circulate? Current pan measured looks close to 4 inches.
4. Use an aluminum plug and wire it once closed so you never worry about stripping the darn thing again (this sounded like great advice).
5. Tap it out to next size and get the corresponding bolt size...but when you look at the hole from the inside of the pan it doesn't look like it would be possible.
6. Haven't been able to see what the Stealership wants for a brand new pan but I'm guessing 3 hundred.

Mechanics can you address the merits/demerits of these items...okay at least some of them...I hate to just chuck a good pan that has a bad hole:whistle:2hip
 
On number 4, safety wiring the bolt has nothing to do with torquing the bolt or stripping the threads, its to keep it from backing out due to vibrations which is why the airplane industry uses it for about every bolt they use in a plane. As far as heli coils they are stronger than aluminum and will be better if done right. Take it to an experienced mechanic and have them install it. Never have to worry about stripping out the sluminum threads again. Even better to have a softer material drain plug so that would strip first, cheaper and easier to replace the bolt than the pan again.
 
#1 would work fine if done correctly.

#2 might be an option, but I've never had the pan off to look and see.

#3 The engine can only have so much oil in circulation at a time. You may have enough to circulate through the engine, but you may not have any in reserve. I don't know, so I can't really answer that one.

#4 I agree completely with Mark on this one. It won't help you in this situation.

#5 again, I haven't seen the inside of the pan, so I can't tell you if there's enough substance on the other side for that to work.

#6 I don't know what they cost either, but I would for sure see what the cost difference would be to drill it and weld a nut to the inside. This would give you steel threads to tighten against so you shouldn't have to worry too much about stripping again.

But no matter what you do, I would highly recommend you invest in a torque wrench. Especially if you're one that feels "the tighter the better" because that will be a problem in other situations too. If you have a quality torque wrench you'll never have to worry about over torquing anything ever again.
 
Thought harleys had an oil tank?

Welding it is kinda a waste unless you know someone that won't charge or you can do it. Two reasons. Most shops like to rape people on welding aluminum when its pretty simple esp a fillet weld which is what they'll do. 2 you'll be welding an aluminum nut in place. Could end up back in same place.

Seems like the problem would be easier fixed by heli-coil or buying a new pan and tightening it correctly.
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Way too much thought has gone into this repair here!

You should have just put a heli-coil in it!

It would be fine! I have one of my bike that has had a heli-coil in it for years! I also installed it on the bike with no issues!

But at this point, if the pan is off, you can go any route at this point,

weld the pan and re-tap it
Heli coil
replace it

Just get it done!
 
i tried rethreading and tapping to a size bigger on mine when i stripped it.. didnt work. theres not that much space in the pan and i still a bit of a leak. it held a bit, but i didnt feel comfortable with it. the new pan from the dealership wont cost more than 110. just pay for that, do it right, and be done with it. listen to the folks here, you asked for advice, and most of the .org members agree: replace the pan.
 
You can do it several ways, but the BEST way would be to replace it, period. You should be able to find one from one of our sponsors. I have had the pleasure of oiling down a rear tire while riding, and it's not fun. Do it right while you have the opportunity. Why chance hurting your engine or yourself with a bandaid fix?
 
Pan will get done...but can you guys see that some guys call the heli-coil a bandaid and others say it is stronger than new. I have a quality Torque wrench. The problem started when I started the bolt in and cross threaded acouple of threads..backed it out..cleaned it up...put bolt back in and snugged it up and didn't tighten it very hard at all..never leaked a drop in the past season...put bolt in yesterday snugged it with my fingers and within less than a quarter turn with the torque wrench she free spun...so, the whole point of the whole thread was to gather info for my education about heli-coils and such...and I guess it is just about like everything else...many different opinions..some say better than new..others it is a bandaid...it's cool...pan is off and I'll get a used one..and I liked the use an aluminum plug..hand tighten it and then wire her down...never will come lose and won't strip..and I'll heli coil my damaged one and see how that works some where down the road..thanks guys for all the info..everyone said pretty much the same thing though...replace the pan..2hip
 
Heli coils are stonger if done correctly. If not they will not be tight in the hole and either keep goin into the oil pan or fall out. If you have the money get the new pan.
 
I don't like helicoils for a lot of reasons. What you should do is repair the pan using a TIMESERT. Timeserts are solid, cylindrical inserts that "lock in" to the damaged threads and give you brand-new solid threaded hole. You can put your original drain plug right back in with no worries. The LAST thing you want is that drain plug to fall out while you are riding. As a shop owner, the LAST thing I want is that drain plug falling out . . . a very bad way to lose a customer! I have done this repair many times, and would be happy to do yours.

If you are wary of repairing the pan, replace it. Don't fool around with this! The repair either has to be done right, or the pan should be replaced. As GSXcite said, oiling down the rear tire is not fun, and is a good way to see your life pass before your eyes . . .:poke:
 
As i said before, if a heli-coil is installed properly it will be stronger than the original aluminum threads. The plug does not seal on the threads like a pipe plug, it seals on the soft washer between the pan flange and the plug flange.
 
CH.CRAFT said:
As i said before, if a heli-coil is installed properly it will be stronger than the original aluminum threads. The plug does not seal on the threads like a pipe plug, it seals on the soft washer between the pan flange and the plug flange.
Click to expand...


Agreed - yes it does. He should just fix this pan and be done with it!:whistle:
 
I've used hundreds of heli-coils in aluminum cylinder heads and blocks. They go through more shock and vibration than a oil drain plug. PM me,......I'll repair it for you. The shipping to and from will cost you more than the repair. :thumbsup:
 
Helicoil is like a nitrous kit, when done right everything works fine. When done wrong, that's a different story. With any repair, if it's done right it'll work.

Welding an OE thin cast aluminum pan is probably the most extreme repair you could do. I could understand this method only if there were no other alternatives.

The drag race pan may not give you clearance for a street exhaust system so why bother.

There are plenty of used pans around that you could pickup pretty cheap so why bother with repairs. There's no reason to buy a new one from a dealer.

Either helicoil it right or replace the pan with a pre-owned one and be done with this.

btw, stop listening to a Harley guys advise. :laugh:
 
Alright Brethren, Suzuki in Santa Rosa just quoted me 157.00 plus tax. They've been closed Sunday and Monday so first chance I got to call and investigate real price...thanks for all advice...and one of the great dimensions of the .ORG is the ability to rub shoulders with mechanical titans...of which I am not...sharing opinions, experience, and knowledge are valuable learning experiences...Knowledge, I heard once and adhere to its premise, is not power. Knowledge is potential power. Once you use it or share it ...then it is power. I never heard of timesert...how cool is that? Offers to fix if I ship it..how cool is that. I know I was annoying about this stupid pan...it is the curse of a curious mind. The money is not the issue at all...just building mechanical skills..what is possible..what is stupid...and yes, I agree, having a poorly done heli-coil let go while you are riding could be a hundred dollar death trip. Thanks guys...now about that...:whistle:
2hip
 
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