Oh how I wish I were Union

[III]

So I'm standing in my kitchen and my girl walks in the door talking on the phone to one of her girlfriends. Her friend is asking her a question about her taxes and I can tell from the look on her face that something's strange. A few minutes later, the conversation ends and she brings me up to speed on the conversation. She proceeds to tell me that her friend who works for a larger factory here in our town (who maybe has her diploma and a prior felony; drug related) made $79,000 last year. She goes on to tell me her job responsiblities for the last week was to spray the floor with hose for an 8-hour shift. She also spends a lot of time sweeping and I'm sure some line work at times. ???

Maybe it's me, but I found this kinda ridiculous. The average income in my area is like $45,000. I'm all for people getting what they can get, but I can't help but see the corporate side in this equation when they decide to take their business elsewhere. If that's the going rate for an entry-level, 1st year factory worker...I can't even imagine what tenured management or skilled labor must cost.

Sorry I'm so late to the party...I'm sure this is an old discussion/topic here. Just had to share my little light bulb moment. This is gonna be a tough one to fix because the perception is that the American worker is getting bent over the barrel, which in most cases is true. But situations like this are pretty hard to justify if you ask me personally. No offense to any Union members here either. I understand that there is a need for an entity looking out for the better good of the worker.

 

[GsxrBots]

I have no use for Unions either. I believe Unions are the reason that the American product is of lesser quality than the foreign product. Why try harder to do your best when you can't lose your job, and you make fantastic money with no education or training at all.
I'm not saying there wasn't a place for them in the past, I just don't think that the present and the future should include them... I'm sure I'll get bashed for this from Union guys, but I had to say what I thought..

 

[Pipefighter248]

Here we go again.
Another union bashing thread.

 

[chrisjp]

What i do is take 1 piece of metal and cut it to high tolerances useing 40 yr old equiptment. When im done they sell it to GE for half a mill. I guess my skill and time at 25/hr is ripping the company off. Ps i also pay 150 a week!!! For health insurace with a 5000 dollar deductsble. I graduated high school. I have a B.S. and i only grossed 60K last year with only 40k take home after insurance, dues, and taxes. Yes I AM worth every penny they pay me for my SKILLS!!! No we aint getting rich and my company EXPORTS 90% of thier product TO CHINA because they cant get it made as well and as cheap as we do right here in good old NW PA!!!

 

[Ziggyman]

Hmm, I could make that summer commute in about an hour if I push it

 

[m_ridgeway]

Here we go again.
Another union bashing thread.

x2

really funny that people against union whine about pay scale that they are not getting. the company agrees to the package deal, if they couldnt remain viable they wouldnt agree to the terms. im sure only union based companies are going overseas.

 

[GsxrBots]

x2

really funny that people against union whine about pay scale that they are not getting. the company agrees to the package deal, if they couldnt remain viable they wouldnt agree to the terms. im sure only union based companies are going overseas.

First off, I'll never complain about the wages. I think the union guys should. How much more would you be taking home if you didn't have dues? Second you are wrong about the companies agreeing to the package deal. Many are forced to. And if you don't think the unions have a mob mentality then you've never seen the other side of the coin. Most pro-union guys are people that know in their souls that someone out there could easily do their jobs for less money, and they hide behind the union for protection from that. I'm sure I'm gonna get burned for that comment, but there it is... If you've ever owned a company or been in control of hiring for a company and seen what the union reps put people through you might see them a different way. That's all I'm saying. Its not your right to keep your job, its a privilege. Work like you want to be there and make the company better instead of complaining that its not your job, or that isn't in my contract.. Then we'll see how far America can go...

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[m_ridgeway]

every point you made can be made for unions as well. people want something to blame, as long as its not ourselves its ok. union guys blame non union guys and likewise.

4% of my wages go to union, and my yearly are $240. so your talking in the neighborhood of $4300 a year goes to my union. less than $100 a week pre-tax. doesnt bother me one bit. seems to bother you though. dont really understand why, i signed my name and agreed to it. my company agrees to pay me that. they bargained our contract to that. there isnt a non union company that can do what we do at the quality that we do.

so i should lose pay, benefits, amount of work, and have poor working conditions because those evil unions are collapsing america?

how much profit does your company make? whens the last time you got a raise? what are your benefits packages like? when you get wrongfully terminated who can you turn to?

im sure every job can find someone to do it for less. isnt that the point of why they send work overseas? not sure what your argument is there? ive worked for min wage, it went up $2 an hour, does that mean i wouldnt do the same job for my old wage? should i have to if someone else will? should we all work at the rate of chinese, mexican, indonesian, etc etc workers so we cant be underpriced?

how is a job a privilege? is that why we dont have workplace laws.

show me a company forced out of business by a union and ill show you a poorly run company with a ceo that has continually made more money every year regardless of profit or loss.


i could really care less if you like unions or not. everyone needs someone to blame for their less than stellar life.

First off, I'll never complain about the wages. I think the union guys should. How much more would you be taking home if you didn't have dues? Second you are wrong about the companies agreeing to the package deal. Many are forced to. And if you don't think the unions have a mob mentality then you've never seen the other side of the coin. Most pro-union guys are people that know in their souls that someone out there could easily do their jobs for less money, and they hide behind the union for protection from that. I'm sure I'm gonna get burned for that comment, but there it is... If you've ever owned a company or been in control of hiring for a company and seen what the union reps put people through you might see them a different way. That's all I'm saying. Its not your right to keep your job, its a privilege. Work like you want to be there and make the company better instead of complaining that its not your job, or that isn't in my contract.. Then we'll see how far America can go...

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[III]

Fellas, I wasn't posting this to bash or out of jealousy, was only sharing my enlightenment. I work in IT project engineering, so forgive my ignorance.
I think the skills that you've mentioned justify that type of payscale, so I have no problems with you getting paid what you deserve. But c'mon...you don't see anything wrong with $30/hr to spray water down a drain? I suppose it could be justified because I'd need that much to keep from hollowing out my head with a shotgun if that were my day to day responsibilities.
Posted via my Atari2600 says Blanca

 

[m_ridgeway]

i understand your feelings, but $30/hr isnt near 79k without a lot of overtime. closer to 39/hr. why is there something wrong with what someone gets paid?

how do you know she wasnt telling a lie? shes a felon with a new job that probably wants approval that she is doing good. it seems alot of people lie about what they do and dont make.

Fellas, I wasn't posting this to bash or out of jealousy, was only sharing my enlightenment. I work in IT project engineering, so forgive my ignorance.
I think the skills that you've mentioned justify that type of payscale, so I have no problems with you getting paid what you deserve. But c'mon...you don't see anything wrong with $30/hr to spray water down a drain? I suppose it could be justified because I'd need that much to keep from hollowing out my head with a shotgun if that were my day to day responsibilities.
Posted via Mobile Device

 

[hillbilly]

I am a 30 year Teamster driver. People are always talking about the lazy overpaid union employees but that just isn't me. Since I get paid by the mile and a set amount for making each delivery there is no way to even walk to the bathroom without losing pay.
The company that I drive for has union and nonunion drivers at different terminals. The union drivers have a better insurance and retirement package than the nonunion drivers. Both union and nonunion pay scales are pretty similar.
It's my opinion that a lot of this union bashing talk is really job envy.

There you made me climb on my soapbox and start ranting. I feel so much better now.

 

[GsxrBots]

I was hoping for a debate. But you could have stopped at the first paragraph. But yes, I think $ 360 a month is crazy to pay for union dues. That's a car payment. If you need to pay someone that much to keep your job, than you are doing something wrong. And you say who is going to fight for you if you are wrongfully terminated? How about a lawyer? Why have the union fight for your old job back that nobody wanted you at in the first place. And as far as you saying my life is less than stellar, that was low, and uncalled for. You know nothing about my life, nor I yours. That just shows me the maturity level we're dealing with here...
You should have left it with the one side blaming the other side...
I don't and most likely won't ever see your side of the story, and neither will you mine, so we agree to disagree. Now I'll carry on with my supposedly lame life.

every point you made can be made for unions as well. people want something to blame, as long as its not ourselves its ok. union guys blame non union guys and likewise.

4% of my wages go to union, and my yearly are $240. so your talking in the neighborhood of $4300 a year goes to my union. less than $100 a week pre-tax. doesnt bother me one bit. seems to bother you though. dont really understand why, i signed my name and agreed to it. my company agrees to pay me that. they bargained our contract to that. there isnt a non union company that can do what we do at the quality that we do.

so i should lose pay, benefits, amount of work, and have poor working conditions because those evil unions are collapsing america?

how much profit does your company make? whens the last time you got a raise? what are your benefits packages like? when you get wrongfully terminated who can you turn to?

im sure every job can find someone to do it for less. isnt that the point of why they send work overseas? not sure what your argument is there? ive worked for min wage, it went up $2 an hour, does that mean i wouldnt do the same job for my old wage? should i have to if someone else will? should we all work at the rate of chinese, mexican, indonesian, etc etc workers so we cant be underpriced?

how is a job a privilege? is that why we dont have workplace laws.

show me a company forced out of business by a union and ill show you a poorly run company with a ceo that has continually made more money every year regardless of profit or loss.


i could really care less if you like unions or not. everyone needs someone to blame for their less than stellar life.

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[GsxrBots]

I used to drive as well. So you mean to tell me that you've never backed into a dock and witness 10-12 forklift drivers roaming around doing nothing and they won't unload you because "that's not their job?" Those guys were the ones that started my feelings about unions many years ago...

I am a 30 year Teamster driver. People are always talking about the lazy overpaid union employees but that just isn't me. Since I get paid by the mile and a set amount for making each delivery there is no way to even walk to the bathroom without losing pay.
The company that I drive for has union and nonunion drivers at different terminals. The union drivers have a better insurance and retirement package than the nonunion drivers. Both union and nonunion pay scales are pretty similar.
It's my opinion that a lot of this union bashing talk is really job envy.

There you made me climb on my soapbox and start ranting. I feel so much better now.

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[chrisjp]

we have LOST so many benifits every contract just to keep our wage...we have nothing left...no pension...only a 401k with a ****TY 2% match. the health insurance..i dont blame the company for...that is BCBS and the goverment rapeing us raw...average age for the shop is 55 and we only have 40 workers and we cannot join another group so we get raped on insurance. so for my (what i consider fair) wage. i get...max 4 weeks vacation after 10 years...1 personal day and regular holidays...boy howdy us union people got life soooo easy!!!

 

[m_ridgeway]

what is there to debate. you attacked unions and their members. also said you expect a "flame". you want an argument.

360 a month for training future emloyees, my union has lawyers, my comp has the right to terminate me at any time for any reason. i have the right to go against them and file a grievance. are you not paying your company to keep your job? they dont make a dime off you i guess, just break even. they would rather pay you less and make up an open door policy with overmanagement.

whats your side of the story? your upset because someone makes a good living? that doesnt sound bitter or jealous at all.

i have a few months off a year and still log about 3k hours a year, and im not needed and overpaid? man that union must have some real pull.

im currently working on an "estimated" 3 billion dollar project with a company known for being non union. they hired union. wonder why that is.

I was hoping for a debate. But you could have stopped at the first paragraph. But yes, I think $ 360 a month is crazy to pay for union dues. That's a car payment. If you need to pay someone that much to keep your job, than you are doing something wrong. And you say who is going to fight for you if you are wrongfully terminated? How about a lawyer? Why have the union fight for your old job back that nobody wanted you at in the first place. And as far as you saying my life is less than stellar, that was low, and uncalled for. You know nothing about my life, nor I yours. That just shows me the maturity level we're dealing with here...
You should have left it with the one side blaming the other side...
I don't and most likely won't ever see your side of the story, and neither will you mine, so we agree to disagree. Now I'll carry on with my supposedly lame life.





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[Gpmo]

I lost my interest in unions when they chose to shoot up the houses of the people that refused to join the union while they were at work and their wives (including my mother) were home. Not only did they have no support in the area for the unions they had to ship in people from outside the state to create picket lines.

On the other hand i have some good friends whom are union and we have fun lively conversations that always end in "too each their own." followed by

 

[VIPER]

i have been a union boy. i have been a non union boy. To be honest with you union was by far the better employment. It reminds todays employers that you are not a number and they eed to show a little respect to the people who are going to make them money.

Now for my favorite saying ..."MODERATION IN EVERYTHING, BALANCE IS KEY"

What i mean is you can take it to far with unions.When they outgrow the company they are supposed to be representing and loose sight of the ultimate goal. Profitability. In manufacturing today its all about the speed and the numbers with as little labor as possible. You work one of three shift or its 12 hour days or nights. You work weekends a lot if not all the time. There is no stopping for anything. It used to be the horn on friday was it for the week. Not now. If there is now check and balance for companies you might as well forget it. Just my 2 cents

 

[GsxrBots]

Not many people have seen that side to the unions. People just think I'm jealous I guess even though I make more that what some have shown here with a small company.
I wonder if that's why the company known for being non union is doing a union contract. Did they shoot up someone else's house? No that still doesn't happen. And I just can't be opinionated and against something without being jealous...

I lost my interest in unions when they chose to shoot up the houses of the people that refused to join the union while they were at work and their wives (including my mother) were home. Not only did they have no support in the area for the unions they had to ship in people from outside the state to create picket lines.

On the other hand i have some good friends whom are union and we have fun lively conversations that always end in "too each their own." followed by

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[hillbilly]

I have never done the freight hauling thing very often but don't believe that I missed much. Most of my driving has been tankers but a large percentage of my deliveries are into union plants. My average delivery time is about an hour timed from arriving to leaving.
Most of the warehouses treat drivers like dirt and come to think of it the JB Hunt and Schneider type of trucking companies are about the same.
You have a valid point about warehouses but I can't believe even 50 percent of them are union. If you had driven for a reputable company that compensated you for hours worked you might feel a little better.

I used to drive as well. So you mean to tell me that you've never backed into a dock and witness 10-12 forklift drivers roaming around doing nothing and they won't unload you because "that's not their job?" Those guys were the ones that started my feelings about unions many years ago...





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[GsxrBots]

You have a valid point about warehouses but I can't believe even 50 percent of them are union. If you had driven for a reputable company that compensated you for hours worked you might feel a little better.

Who said I didn't make good money driving truck? Who said I didn't get mileage plus hourly from the time I docked? Not me. This has nothing to do with money. The union people here are making those points, not me. To me it is a point of work ethic. It has already been said that having a job isn't a privilege anymore, therefore some must believe it is their right. Like they are owed it somehow. Not my style of thinking is all..


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