Nissan titan - ford f-150

[JINKSTER]

Bill -

GM already offers a 6.2 with 380 HP @ 550, 417 lb/ft @ 440, and it gets 20 mpg in a Denali.  They really aren't in the game right now, but I expect GM to step up to the plate with the new pickups.  This engine would work out quite nicely, don't you think?

yeah...sounds great...but there's several problems here...

1. It doesn't exist yet.

2. Large american automotive corps are notorious at promising "A Brighter Tomorrow" (much like their uhem..."Forward Looking" stockholder reports) and when the heat is on they claim to have all sorts of "Better Things To Come" as they hollar "Stay Tuned! Coming Soon To A Dealer Near You!"...in an effort to get consumers to hold off/out on their purchases..to beef up the debut consumer base...then tomorrow comes..a day late and usually?...quite a few promises short...and finally?...

3. GM is notorious for using their consumers as an R&D facility...they design something new then just unleash it on the masses.

I had a Black '89 Chevy Silverado Stepside that I loved dearly..and at 158K miles I replaced it's 5.7L heads right in my driveway.....then at 192K miles?...I had the engine rebuilt by a very reputable local shop...boiled the block then bored and honed .030 over...badger pistons, perfect circle ringsets, mellings tow cams, True dual exhaust tipped with flowmasters and centerline mags w/ BFGOODRICH's....loved that truck..my father too...so he bought himself only the 2nd new truck he's ever owned in his life...a '99 Silverado...and outside of it's 5.3L Vortec engine?..the rest of the truck is an utter P.O.S....he was all happy and thrilled he sprung for the power captains chairs....18 months from new they were being held in place with c-clamps as the tracks were 1/2 the size of the tracks on my mothers '94? but pristine caprice...plastic underbumper with foglights that literally fell out...power windows that he's afraid to use...and a A/T that shifts like shid as it bangs into every gear..sorry...it ain't the american workers...it's the greed and scumbag dealings of the fatcats that run these great american auto industrys into the ground..why should I patronize an american corporation for outsourcing american jobs and cobbling shid together that was made in every third world country with cheap labor when the Japs are INSOURCING jobs to american workers and busting their azz to put forth a best effort fine quality product?...screw detroit...they seen my last dollars to go in their ceo's pocket as bonus money for laying off hard working americans..they sux! :anger:

sorry.....kinda got off on a tangent...butcha gotta admit Dennis...for a first effort at a full size truck?...Nissan came out swinging hard with the Titan...real hard..and such a shame that the Titans only weak link was supplied by an american corporation...Dana...wooooof....fortunately there are fixes.

L8R, Bill.

 

[Dennis]

1. The engine exists in the Yukon Denali, and there are some on the local lot. I can talk about next year if you can talk about 1987.

2. Japanese companies are notorious for overrating their hp while domestics especially GM is known for underrating. Why would I support a company that knowingly LIES to sell cars? Check out these links, some of the GM stuff is underrated by 29 hp.

http://www.detroitnews.com/apps....3130350

http://www.detnews.com/2005/autosinsider/0508/17/A01-283759.htm

3. Yes, I have already admitted that Nissan did a good job on the first full size truck they came out with. But keep in mind that technology is what is driving the improvements we are seeing in all the trucks. Without advances in software like Pro-E, the various FEA and simulation softwares and related hardware none of the trucks we know would exist today. The F150 is a much improved truck, and GM's next one will be too ... although it seems they are way behind on getting it out to the public. Bottom line is whoever has the freshest effort has the advantage. Nissan isn't new to building vehicles, and no doubt they looked hard at what was already out there in deciding how to build their truck.

 

[racerV]

Im gonna get bashed by all the American car lovers but..... I own a Ram 1500, love the truck but....it's american. My next truck will be the Nissan. Resale value and quality cant be touched by Ford.

 

[Dennis]

Well RacerV - all I can tell you about resale value is don't go by the published numbers. I got my F150 for $8,500 off retail without even asking for a deal. I'm sure there was more on the table but it was a great deal so I just took it and drove off into the sunset. When the incentives are so high it naturally drives down the resale. To calculate actual resale you must use the actual sales price. In this light Ford does ok. Domestics mfgs are heavily weighted on truck sales so they are forced to use incentives. They got me to buy and Nissan wasn't offering anything like it when I bought. Since the asian mfgs generally don't rely on trucks like the domestics do, they don't offer near the incentives. Oh .. and since Honda and Toyota set the std for quality some of the other aisian mfgs ride along on their coattails, meaning people give a perceived quality and value to some vehicles that don't deserve it. The inverse is about domestics is true as well. All the statistics indicate that although Japanese autos as a whole are better than North American autos as a whole, the NA autos are better than European autos as a whole. Yet there remains a "not made here" syndrome in this country and people continually bash domestic stuff more than any other.

This reminds me of a discussion I had with a Harley riding buddy. He suggested that the resale on his V-rod made it more attractive than my Busa. We went through the math .... Yea, his had a better percentage of STICKER price retained, but he paid sticker and I didn't. Then figure that we actually both lose about the same amount of money after two years (me being generous to him) and then I pointed out that he had to invest $8000 more than me in order to lose the same amount of money. I had the use of my $8000 while his was tied up. That isn't good business sense.

All the discussion in this thread is entertaining, although off topic at times, but when you step back and take a good look, you can see that many of the "facts" that get thrown about really don't immediately lead you to the correct decision.

 

[Dennis]

All you guys stating that Nissan has better quality, take note of this:

http://jdpower.com/news/releases/vds2005089.asp

As I stated earlier, no matter how much you want to believe it, not all Japanese auto makers are Honda or Toyota. Note how many domestics are better than Nissan for long term reliability. Don't try saying it is biased against imports ... take note who IS at the top.

Here is a quote:
Among the Japanese automakers, Nissan's results were spotty, with the Infiniti M35 and M45 sedans rated among the most reliable. But the Nissan Quest minivan, the Armada SUV, the Titan pickup and the Infiniti QX56 were ranked among the least reliable.

The QX56 is likely to have about eight times as many problems as the Toyota Land Cruiser, the most reliable SUV.

The lowest-rated Nissan models are all built at its Canton plant. "They were new vehicles, in new segments, in a new plant, in a new area. If you add up all those things, it's not rocket science that they had problems," Champion said.

You can find it here:
http://www.detnews.com/2005/autosinsider/0510/27/C01-362825.htm

Nissan doesn't have quality with new products? Easy to believe since they are asian, but it isn't the truth.

 

[JINKSTER]

1.  The engine exists in the Yukon Denali, and there are some on the local lot.  I can talk about next year if you can talk about 1987.

2.  Japanese companies are notorious for overrating their hp while domestics especially GM is known for underrating.  Why would I support a company that knowingly LIES to sell cars?  Check out these links, some of the GM stuff is underrated by 29 hp.  

http://www.detroitnews.com/apps....3130350

http://www.detnews.com/2005/autosinsider/0508/17/A01-283759.htm

3.  Yes, I have already admitted that Nissan did a good job on the first full size truck they came out with.  But keep in mind that technology is what is driving the improvements we are seeing in all the trucks.  Without advances in software like Pro-E, the various FEA and simulation softwares and related hardware none of the trucks we know would exist today.  The F150 is a much improved truck, and GM's next one will be too ... although it seems they are way behind on getting it out to the public.  Bottom line is whoever has the freshest effort has the advantage.  Nissan isn't new to building vehicles, and no doubt they looked hard at what was already out there in deciding how to build their truck.

wow...links to detroit news attacking jap auto makers...i'm shocked....i guess detroit doesn't subscibe to the "Same Dyno/Samr Day" theory...or the 10-15% dyno to dyno errors that exist....of the harsh and gett'in harsher emissions regs imposed on non-domestics..and except for all of the hard working americans who loose their jobs there?..detroit sux.

L8R, Bill.

 

[kromdom]

Very interesting (and informative) discussion here....thanks to both Dennis and Bill.

And now, another excuse to post another picture of my Lightning (this time, the view that most trucks will be looking at)

just trying to lighten things up a bit, fellas!

 

[Dennis]

Bill-
Detroit does subscribe to the "same dyno, same day".  You see, with SAE specs it is always the "same dyno, the same day".  There is not 10-15% dyno error on automotive mfg dynos.  Do you expect Tokyo Daily News to report it?  Or could you read it if they did?  It is undeniable truth.  If you don't believe it, go to the dealer and look at what happened to the hp ratings.  

Now I don't think that stuff I posted is the absolute and only information about auto makers, but I do think that it does show that Nissan is not of the same caliber as Honda and Toyota.  Those two are always at the top, the rest shuffle around a bit underneath.

My point in this is that many people get tricked into thinking any Japanese company is better than any domestic.  Not true.  Geez, Nissan had to get bailed out by the French or they would have gone bankrupt a couple years ago.  Even GM hasn't sunk that low yet.

Kromdom -
Nice truck, I've never gotten to drive one but would like to. And hey, it's all in good fun anyway.



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[BrianKesler]

There's more ford trucks on the road than any other truck or vehicle for one simple reason...they'll sell ya one cheaper than anybody else will...and also...because ford will sell trucks real cheap?...they get the lions share of...pay attention here..."FLEET SALES".....and it's those "Fleet Sales" that make ford trucks the "Best Selling" and so many of'em on the road.

I would say that there is a reason that so many companies choose Ford trucks for their fleet. I think that part of it may be that they are less expensive, but i dont think a company would buy a crap vehicle just because its a little cheaper.

Heres my truck, not an F-150, but i think you know where my loyalties are.

 

[BrianKesler]

And the gas eating, yet very powerful v10. With the lift and tires i get about 10 mpg

 

[JINKSTER]

Bill-
Detroit does subscribe to the "same dyno, same day".  You see, with SAE specs it is always the "same dyno, the same day".  There is not 10-15% dyno error on automotive mfg dynos.  Do you expect Tokyo Daily News to report it?  Or could you read it if they did?  It is undeniable truth.  If you don't believe it, go to the dealer and look at what happened to the hp ratings.  

Now I don't think that stuff I posted is the absolute and only information about auto makers, but I do think that it does show that Nissan is not of the same caliber as Honda and Toyota.  Those two are always at the top, the rest shuffle around a bit underneath.

My point in this is that many people get tricked into thinking any Japanese company is better than any domestic.  Not true.  Geez, Nissan had to get bailed out by the French or they would have gone bankrupt a couple years ago.  Even GM hasn't sunk that low yet.

Kromdom -
Nice truck, I've never gotten to drive one but would like to.  And hey, it's all in good fun anyway.

"Bill-
Detroit does subscribe to the "same dyno, same day". You see, with SAE specs it is always the "same dyno, the same day". There is not 10-15% dyno error on automotive mfg dynos. Do you expect Tokyo Daily News to report it? Or could you read it if they did? It is undeniable truth. If you don't believe it, go to the dealer and look at what happened to the hp ratings."

Dennis...you don't understand..oh granted....the dyno's have weather station software that supposedly standardize SAE readings based on ambient temps, absolute pressure and humidity however...it's just software compensation...cyber style kentucky windage...an while close?...no cigar..as not all engine, exhaust and intake configurations of all manufacture are not created equal....some being more supceptable to climatic variences while others may be less...infinitly so...he11...I've got well over 100 ega monitored dyno runs on bikes I've owned and some can vary 2-3 rwhp run-to-run...sae...and there are variences dyno-to-dyno...even automotive dynos...it all depends on who calibrated them.

"Now I don't think that stuff I posted is the absolute and only information about auto makers, but I do think that it does show that Nissan is not of the same caliber as Honda and Toyota. Those two are always at the top, the rest shuffle around a bit underneath.

My point in this is that many people get tricked into thinking any Japanese company is better than any domestic. Not true. Geez, Nissan had to get bailed out by the French or they would have gone bankrupt a couple years ago. Even GM hasn't sunk that low yet."

While I agree that Honda and Toyota are a tad more "polished" in their design and manufacture?..Nissan (the 2nd largest Jap manufaturer) has never been far behind and always presented a significant value by comparison..as where toyota has lexus?..nissan has infinity..and renault was only too happy to "Bail'em out"..but I've never been "tricked" into thinking that nissans better than toyota or honda but nissan is definantly not far behind and still light years ahead in design, overall quality and fit and finish than the domestics...imho and that of many, many others....I owned a tundra..they suffered their glyches as well via front-end ball seperation...honda ridgelines?....I test drove'em...and they had ball problems too...a gross lack of'em. LOL!

I've wroked as a machinist for large american companies...I've also worked as a machinist for jap owned companies...two different cultures...two different ethics...and yes...one is still in fact better while the other struggles to emulate what once could've been had they not been so pomp and pigheaded.

L8R, Bill.

 

[Relsek]

There's more ford trucks on the road than any other truck or vehicle for one simple reason...they'll sell ya one cheaper than anybody else will...and also...because ford will sell trucks real cheap?...they get the lions share of...pay attention here..."FLEET SALES".....and it's those "Fleet Sales" that make ford trucks the "Best Selling" and so many of'em on the road.

I would say that there is a reason that so many companies choose Ford trucks for their fleet.  I think that part of it may be that they are less expensive, but i dont think a company would buy a crap vehicle just because its a little cheaper.  

Heres my truck, not an F-150, but i think you know where my loyalties are.

Yeah,a but I'll bet Jinkster will still find some way the Titan is a better truck.

Nice truck by the way, can I borrow it? I'm thinking about a trip to Port St. Lucie hunting a silver titan.

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[Dennis]

Bill -

I don't think you understand what production dynos and more importantly development dynos at engine manufacturers are cabable of. If you are ever up this way stop by and I'll take you for a tour and you can see some of each.

That said, why is it that the variation that caused error only existed with the asian dynos? That seems a bit odd to me ... considering that the revised numbers likely came from the same dynos. The truth is the asians were using deceptive practices to get the engines to produce the higher numbers and when SAE clarified the spec they no longer could do so.

I work in manufacturing with several cultures. Today it was France, Germany, and Brazil. I have only worked long-term in two countries but I have painfully experienced cultural differences.

Quality: The preponderance of evidence indicates that Nissan is not any better or worse than the domestic stuff. I just picked one of the surveys that they didn't fare well in to make a point. Honda and Toyota won't ever be found 3/4 of the way down the list like Nissan can be found at times. I don't think Nissan is honestly only 25% above the bottom like the one link I posted said, but the sheep that assume they are "better than the domestic junk" have formed their opinion without a valid basis. Again, I don't think the Titan is junk, but it isn't the defining truck of this age.

Nissan has Infinity, and if you check around you can see they have some vehicles on some of the "worst pick" lists. Lexus is always at the top. No comparison. Case closed.

As for fit and finish, I honestly cannot see why anybody would think the Titan's paint is better than anybody else's. Like I mentioned before, I can't even spray clear with as much orange peel as a Titan has (or F150, or Chevy) but I'm only a hobby bodyman.

Everybody has an opinion, buy what you like, but I'll never grow bored with putting in my 2 cents worth on this topic.

 

[Sane_man]

My wife drives a 2002 F-150 Supercrew Lariat 4x4 with the 5.4 engine. She loves it and it drives like a car.

Never had a problem with it in 42,000 miles until yesterday. It started leaking transmission fluid and was leaving large puddles of fluid. She took it the dealer and they said the filler tube and pan is leaking. It's going to cost $504 to fix!!

I was amazed to find that Ford and Chevy trucks only come with a factory 3 yr/36,000 mile bumber to bumper warrenty. You don't get the 5 yr/60,000 mile drivetrain standard like most cars have. If I had known that, I would have purchased the extended warrenty. The Titan comes with the drivetrain warrenty, standard. If we had found out the transmission was going to be an expensive fix, we were going to dump it and buy a new vehicle, eventhough our truck still seems new, and is paid for. We like the Titan and the Chevy Silveraldo. But we may get an F-250 or 350 next.

 

[silverfreak]

I used to drive only fords.and still have two of them. but we bought a nissan frontier with the 275hp 4.0 v-6and i am a firm believer that the nissan will out pull any f-150 with the 4.6or5.4liter engine.this truck will flat out haul a$$.+ it is just as much if not more comfortable.im actually looking at a second one for myself and trading off my 2002 f150 4x4.the nissan gets 27mpg on the hiway and the f150 gets 18 so there is going to be the selling point for me.

 

[JINKSTER]

Bill -

I don't think you understand what production dynos and more importantly development dynos at engine manufacturers are cabable of.  If you are ever up this way stop by and I'll take you for a tour and you can see some of each.

That said, why is it that the variation that caused error only existed with the asian dynos?  That seems a bit odd to me ... considering that the revised numbers likely came from the same dynos.  The truth is the asians were using deceptive practices to get the engines to produce the higher numbers and when SAE clarified the spec they no longer could do so.

I work in manufacturing with several cultures.  Today it was France, Germany, and Brazil.  I have only worked long-term in two countries but I have painfully experienced cultural differences.

Quality:  The preponderance of evidence indicates that Nissan is not any better or worse than the domestic stuff.  I just picked one of the surveys that they didn't fare well in to make a point.  Honda and Toyota won't ever be found 3/4 of the way down the list like Nissan can be found at times.  I don't think Nissan is honestly only 25% above the bottom like the one link I posted said, but the sheep that assume they are "better than the domestic junk" have formed their opinion without a valid basis.  Again, I don't think the Titan is junk, but it isn't the defining truck of this age.

Nissan has Infinity, and if you check around you can see they have some vehicles on some of the "worst pick" lists.  Lexus is always at the top.  No comparison.  Case closed.

As for fit and finish, I honestly cannot see why anybody would think the Titan's paint is better than anybody else's.  Like I mentioned before, I can't even spray clear with as much orange peel as a Titan has (or F150, or Chevy) but I'm only a hobby bodyman.

Everybody has an opinion, buy what you like, but I'll never grow bored with putting in my 2 cents worth on this topic.

"Bill -

I don't think you understand what production dynos and more importantly development dynos at engine manufacturers are cabable of.  If you are ever up this way stop by and I'll take you for a tour and you can see some of each."

Thanks Dennis...that would be interesting...I'd enjoy that.

"That said, why is it that the variation that caused error only existed with the asian dynos?  That seems a bit odd to me ... considering that the revised numbers likely came from the same dynos.  The truth is the asians were using deceptive practices to get the engines to produce the higher numbers and when SAE clarified the spec they no longer could do so."

Yeah....right

and far be it from any of the american manufacturers to "Decieve" anyone....right?

"Quality:  The preponderance of evidence indicates that Nissan is not any better or worse than the domestic stuff.  I just picked one of the surveys that they didn't fare well in to make a point.  Honda and Toyota won't ever be found 3/4 of the way down the list like Nissan can be found at times.  I don't think Nissan is honestly only 25% above the bottom like the one link I posted said, but the sheep that assume they are "better than the domestic junk" have formed their opinion without a valid basis.  Again, I don't think the Titan is junk, but it isn't the defining truck of this age."

well?...you're definantly entitled to your opinion and I don't think there's a manufacturer out there that hasn't had their vega, pinto and K-car moments but any of the survivors in the oh so heated and competitive automotive sector have also had their shining stars...in my younger days I owned both a 289 '68Stang and a '69 Ford Torino Cobrajet w/ 428CI...and I love the new release retro stang...and if I needed or had use for more truck?...Fords 6.0 Powerstroke was on my shortlist..Nissans Titan is a hot truck for it's class and my wife can't wait for the daughetrs to grow up and fly the coup to buy one of her own as she loves Nissans 350Z...and it's all good man...but I have a financial reponsibilty to my family and we aren't well off enough to absorb the same poor decisions and service we got in yesteryears domestics...while we never had a problem in the last decade of toyotas and hondas...like zero problems...and it's been nice...real nice.

"Nissan has Infinity, and if you check around you can see they have some vehicles on some of the "worst pick" lists.  Lexus is always at the top.  No comparison.  Case closed."

So Infinitys Q45 is a POS huh?...odd.

"As for fit and finish, I honestly cannot see why anybody would think the Titan's paint is better than anybody else's.  Like I mentioned before, I can't even spray clear with as much orange peel as a Titan has (or F150, or Chevy) but I'm only a hobby bodyman."

First off?...I can detect exactly zero orange peel in my Titans Radiant Silver paint job...and to me and my minds eye?..fit and finish is far more than just paint...it's how tight are the body lines where the hood meets the fenders and fenders meet the jambs?...it's new innovations such as the TracLock adjustable tie down system in the Titans Bed...and the clever locking storage compartment in the deadspace behind the rear wheelwells...and little things that mean a lot like the built in spillway for the oil to flow down when removing the oil filter...ease of service...and speaking of service?...the dometic manufacturers not only can't but don't even seem to want to hold a candle to the after purchase service one recieves as a Honda, Toyota, Nissan consumer...to this day I have blown blood vessels dealing with ford service writters...even with the old GOLD ESP extended care BS...my Ford F150 had numerous problems and the only thing I could count on?...was the fact that I was always "In For A Fight" trying to get it repaired as paid and promised...huge fights...arguing for services I paid for with people who sold me shid that broke...and even when I won those fights?...then I'd hafta fight to get'em to do it right the 2nd time...he11...I took my F150 in for a front-end alignment....twin I-beam my azz...and then $250 and c-bushings later?..they roll out my truck and the freaking steering whekk is at a 45 degree angle...as they tell me yeah that's normal...while my cruise controls are on the damn steering wheel...I had to go to the owner of the dealership and threaten to drive the damn thing through his glass showroom floor to get'em to straighten out what they screwed up...sorry...they sux...yet when I hit the honda, toyota or nissan service joints?...it's...

"Oh jeese Mr. Jinks...we're sorry you're having a problem with your vehicle...we'll take care of it right away...just have a seat in our lobby and help yourself to refreshments and we'll have it fixed in a jiffy...and btw...we are so sorry to have inconvienenced you in this way."

Night and day...more like...Nightmare and Day difs in after sales service ethics....and the japs make me feel like the wireless puppet. LOL!

L8R, Bill.

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[Dennis]

Bill -

Yeah....right

and far be it from any of the american manufacturers to "Decieve" anyone....right?

Come on Bill, denial doesn't change the facts.

I never said domestic mfgs are innocent of such events.  I'm merely pointing out that the others aren't innocent either.  You're not producing any credible evidence or theory that leads us to believe anything other than the reality that they were deceptive.


well?...you're definantly entitled to your opinion and I don't think there's a manufacturer out there that hasn't had their vega, pinto and K-car moments but any of the survivors in the oh so heated and competitive automotive sector have also had their shining stars...in my younger days I owned both a 289 '68Stang and a '69 Ford Torino Cobrajet w/ 428CI...and I love the new release retro stang...and if I needed or had use for more truck?...Fords 6.0 Powerstroke was on my shortlist..Nissans Titan is a hot truck for it's class and my wife can't wait for the daughetrs to grow up and fly the coup to buy one of her own as she loves Nissans 350Z...and it's all good man...but I have a financial reponsibilty to my family and we aren't well off enough to absorb the same poor decisions and service we got in yesteryears domestics...while we never had a problem in the last decade of toyotas and hondas...like zero problems...and it's been nice...real nice.

Well the K-car was revolutionary in its day.  But times change, and we can't judge the quality of what Chrysler makes by what they made in 1980.  I recognize your bad luck with past vehicles and the impact on your decisions, but there has to be more to the story there.  Something just wasn't right.  We don't need to figure that out here though.


So Infinitys Q45 is a POS huh?...odd.

]

Do some reading, see how Lexus and Infinity compare as a whole.  There really are Infinity vehicles on the "worst" lists.


To me and my minds eye?..fit and finish is far more than just paint...it's hopw tight are the body lines where the hood meets the fenders?...it's new innovations such as the TracLock adjustable tie down system in the Titans Bed...and the clever locking storage compartment in the deadspace behind the rear wheelwells...and little things that mean a lot like the built in spillway for the oil to flow down when removing the oil filter...ease of service...and speaking of service?...the dometic manufacturers not only can't but don't even seem to want to hold a candle to the after purchase service one recieves as a Honda, Toyota, Nissan consumer...to this day I have blown blood vessels dealing with ford service writters...even with the old GOLD ESP extended care BS...my Ford F150 had numerous problems and the only thing I could count on?...was the fact that I was always "In For A Fight" trying to get it repaired as paid and promised...huge fights...arguing for services I paid for with people who sold me shid that broke...and even when I won those fights?...then I'd hafta fight to get'em to do it right the 2nd time...he11...I took my F150 in for a front-end alignment....twin I-beam my azz...and then $250 and c-bushings later?..they roll out my truck and the freaking steering whekk is at a 45 degree angle...as they tell me yeah that's normal...while my cruise controls are on the damn steering wheel...I had to go to the owner of the dealership and threaten to drive the damn thing through his glass showroom floor to get'em to straighten out what they screwed up...sorry...they sux...yet when I hit the honda, toyota or nissan service joints?...it's...

"Oh jeese Mr. Jinks...we're sorry you're having a problem with your vehicle...we'll take care of it right away...just have a seat in our lobby and help yourself to refreshments and we'll have it fixed in a jiffy...and btw...we are so sorry to have inconvienenced you in this way."

Night and day...more like...Nightmare and Day difs in after sales service ethics....and the japs make me feel like the wireless puppet. LOL!



Hmmm ... Chrysler invented the cup holder and all the neat little extras that everybody has now.  I guess they are the masters of fit and finish?  Most of what you mention (including the oil drip tray the F150 has) are not fit and finish.  They are convenience features that are nice and do help sell vehicles.  I would like to have more storage space in my F150, but that is not fit and finish.  

I had an apple the last time I was in my Ford service dept.  Oh, and they gave me a car to drive with a pager to let me know when my vehicle was ready.  They hand wash every car that goes through the service dept for free.  Even if you are in for the $19 oil change special.  I went to the wash building with the truck one time.  They had 4 guys washing on second shift.  They even chamois off the vehicles and do a quick interior cleaning.

Our local Honda store has a notably horrible service dept.  Our dept secretary at work goes there and pays an arm and a leg every 30k miles or whatever the ransom mileage is.  The last time afgter service her car got out into the middle of the intersection in front of the dealership when it quit.  She described the following events in a not too favorable light.  The previous time when she needed a new ignition switch she called them and they told her it would be three weeks before they could get her in.  She had another non-Honda repair place fix it.  I guess all dealerships have their own personality.  I can't seem to buy a vehicle from the local Ford store.  Those guys think I'm stupid I guess.  I don't hold it against Ford though, I just went down the road to the next town and bought one.  I wouldn't not buy a Honda because of our local store, I'd go down the road for that too.

The worst experience I've ever had has been at the hands of Suzuki.  Fortunately the dealer made things right for me.

I've got a 289 67 Stang (first car) and a 69 Torino GT convertible.  By today's standard they are complete junk, but times change. (one of my recurrent points)



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[JINKSTER]

Well Dennis?..you stick with domestics and I'll stick with american made jap...we both sound happy in our decisions...win win. L8R, Bill.

 

[BulletTrain]

Moved to Random Thoughts...

 

[SAMBUSA]

Funny how Fords are built in Mexico and Canada, yet Honda, Nissan and Toyota are all built in the States