New 1507 build, need +12 timing just to run above 5k rpm Pipes Glowing under +12?


??? I just finished a gen 1 1507 build. -2.5mm Carrillo rods, no spacer, gen 2 crank w/ cb gear removed and lightened by APE, CP slugs @ 13.7 CR, APE full head package, 415/395 web cams, PC5-PC5 Ignition-PC5 Autotune, 69lb bosch injectors, MPS 62lb reflash, and much more.

I couldn't get a decent idle out of it w/o +14 of advance on the PC5. The pipes were glowing at 5-6k on the dyno until I went north of +10 advance on the PC5. What would cause the fuel to burn in the pipes other than retarded timing? The farther I go with the timing the better it runs. Kind of scaring me. What would throw the ignition timing off by 15+ degrees w/o keeping the engine from running at all? Stupid amounts of exhaust pressure coming from the pipe, this seems impressive. Will idle smooth at 1400rpm on a very rough and unfinished fuel tune.
The pipes stopped glowing and the bike made more power and smoothed out after I bumped the timing up. If it was lean the pipes would have gotten even more red. The AFR is 12.8 - 13.2 all the time. This is on the PC5 software w/ autotune and the AFR on the mustang dyno I'm tuning on w/ a pro tuner.
Lets do the simple version of the question: Is it possible to get the cam timing right, the build correct overall, and somehow get ignition timing that's off by 12-15 degrees retard due to a mechanical issue during assembly or a defective part in the motor? IE; stator, flywheel, cam pin height, crank sensor position, ect?
No answers? No ideas? I thought this was the place to go with Busa questions? I guess I'm a little disappointed! I've owned my Busa's since 2005. I've avoided forum membership because every question comes with at least 25 stupid questions about completely unrelated issues like "do you have a tuner". I stated the facts and asked a question. Of course I have a tuner, me! I'm an engineer by trade. I'm Not a Busa engineer. I will eventually figure out the issue myself but a forum like this one is supposed to be the community helpful shortcut to an answer or at least an idea of a solution. I cant believe that no one has had this issue before. This is my third Busa build. This cant be a completely new problem. I have a 02 turbo, full build and an 03 1507 full build. I'm certain for the price of an idea or two I will be able to provide some useful data to the forum community in the future. Can anyone help? This is very discouraging and also what I was told to expect when I enrolled in to this forum. This forum has a reputation for steering the members to vendors for profit. I was hoping this was not the case but now I wonder.......
This forum is very cliquish. Making assertions like that off the bat isn't going to net you anything but exclusion. I would try your question at psychobike or another drag forum. Builds like yours are rare around here.
Thanks. Hopefully some of the other Busa forums are still about Busa's and not so much about getting a new leather jacket for $148.
Well go ahead and say what you mean. If there are other busa forums out there that fit your needs take off and join one of them. No need to bash this one as you go. Unless the door hits ya, then I would understand.

Sent from my Ford F-150 using Forum Runner
What are the cams set at??
And what is the fuel pressure set at?
What are you running for fuel?
If you were rebuilding an old muscle car, I would ask if you dropped the distributor in the wrong in this case, is there any possibility that the cams 'moved' when the chain was put on during the rebuild? I've never rebuilt a busa I don't know if putting the chain back on is a failsafe process or not, but thought I'd ask anyway.

Or what about where the motor 'picks up' (sensor) the time to fire? Sounds like something is a tooth off, especially since it's occurring across all cylinders?
1500 rpm is normal for a 1507 stroker motor due to the increased piston speed. lower than that and the bike will not idle correctly. Check to see if the timing chain jumped a tooth on the cam sprockets
Put a timing light on it and scribe a few extra marks or use a paint marker on the starter clutch to show additional timing references. Put your degree wheel on the stator side and setup just as you wodul when degreeing the cams (you did degree the cams, right?). Index it in 10-15 degree increments and see if the timing is where you think it should be.

Using the MPS reflashed ECU is a crap shoot for tuning since you really don't know what Dan sent you back and he won't send you the .bin file. Maybe he changed the timing as well, maybe he didn't, who knows?

Those are very large injectors for a N/A 1507. Since you didn't mention anything else, I assume you aren't spraying it. Something like S2000 or CBR11000 injectors should be plenty.

I assume you also do have a GEN1 rotor on the bike and not a GEN 2.