Need your help Folks...

Revlis

Re-Recycled, Busa-Less...
Donating Member
Registered
His Mission is to get some honest answers to the following question. If you would, take a moment, give an Honest answer. Thanks Folks I appreciate it...

Here's the Question...

How has the use of models in fashion magazines, Victoria Secret ads, etc.
affected you personally and how you assess others?

Rev.
 
It's some kinda advanced sociology class I believe, Straight up folks, thanks...
 
Hey Rev, I think it makes people in general alot more self conscious about their size, shape, and general appearance! Maybe even to the point of obsessive behaviors. I've had some friends who have starved themselves trying to lose weight. Others had more silicon pumped into various parts of their bodies then IBM's big blue! As far as me personally I think it can and often does impact the way we view/see things. My kids are a classic example of this kind of sales tactic! I can't tell you how many times we've bought the latest greatest based on some MTV ad depicting teenage kids wearing God only knows what........ But, its what all the teens are wearing! So, yes I've been influenced albeit by my children and the fashion models they see.
 
Wow...what a question...

From a female standpoint, I'd say it not only puts pressure on gals to try and be just like the models in magazines, but it makes the majority that will never look like that feel very bad for how they are...most women could never physically be a 6', 105 lb model, and that makes girls feel like there's always something wrong with them, especially when going through those incredibly odd and difficult teen years.

For women that know they can't ever be one of those super models on the cover of Victoria's Secret, I'd say they are sometimes bothered by it, but accept that that's just the way it is. The flip side for those women is that their men greatly admire pics of models, and women, myself included, often wonder if guys really think their ladies can look like that; are they upset that their girlfriend/wife doesn't measure up to what we're all bombarded with all in the name of "sex sells"

My overall opinion of models in magazines and on TV, men or women: it's sad that sex sells products, but you'll never convince companies using this type of advertising to change...sure, it affects kids in their most formidable years. It affects the self-esteem of so many; it affects relationships...it will never change though...it's here to stay.

To more directly answer the question...All that I've said above is how "selling sex" has affected me...it has, however, made me fully aware of what's considered "normal", and I don't judge anyone based on the fact that they don't measure up to someone on the cover of a magazine...the "sex sells" era hasn't adversely affected how I view others, but I'd guess my view is different since I'm a female...
 
Although I REALLY DO love ALL women, I tend to set my sights on and date the more 'modelly' types.  Like a newly washed, sparkling busa, I =PERSONALLY= prefer a woman who enjoys LOOKING like a woman:  nails, earrings, make-up, longer hair etc etc and more than likely, I have been trained over the last 20+ years by media, magazines, world culture towards this perspective.  I fully intend to end up with a medium to high maintence girl.  I don't believe my personal preference here is superficial, it's just personal preference.  Like a Busa over a 12R.   As I said, I love all women and NEVER shun or avoid any that are not models, but I personally prefer their look over the basic farm girl or whatever.  I'm not a pig, just honest.  :)

That said, I NEVER EVER EVER base EVERYTHING on looks. I have noticed, and never thought twice about someone who is not 'perfect', for I am not perfect either, and personality is AWLAYS the TOP factor if relationship bound.

Well, you asked how I think it has affected me and I told. I do believe I have been tainted by this messed up world. As long as I am not judging or avoiding based on that, I feel I'm okay with it.

Also, I think some women enjoy having a 'baseline' or example to work off of, or goal to work toward. I am VERY AGAINST women feeling they have to measure up and hurt themselves trying. I really do treat ALL of God's gifts equally, I simply prefer eye candy over not, inside my head. Have I given enough disclaimers yet? :)
 
Victoria's Secret models? Hmmmm, well it sure has made me spend tons on my girlfriend. Good or bad it sells.

But on a social note, think of this. We all dress up when they go to a job interview, we wash and wax our cars (or Busa's) when we go out on a date, we all "sell" ourselves everywhere we go and with everything we do, we just don;t think about it. Is it wrong for a company to make their product look as appealing as possible to sell it?

I agree that it is ultimately not right that women are expected to look like what most of them can never be. However, the bigest irony is that for the most part, women are the ones that are looking at these adds and catalogs, NOT MEN, yet women claim that men are the ones with the high expectations and comparisons. Name one man that reads Vogue (ok, striaght man), yet it is reeking with half naked pictures of ridiculously tiny, tall women. We (men) did not put those pictures there or chose those models, other women do, so what's up with that? Don't say it is because men want you to look that way, that is BS (except for immature punks anyway).

If you (women or men) have a problem with the way women are unfairly or unrealistically portrayed in media, then don't buy it, don't look at it, don't read it. Only then will it stop.

You women out there think that you have to look like a model because you think we men want it that way. Well not necessarily true. What a REAL man wants is an honest women that treats him right and truly cares for him. To hell with looking like a model. It is amazing how beautiful a women is to your eyes when she is the REAL thing.

I will now step down from my soapbox ;)
 
One more point to add here. Yes men like the way models look, me included, but it is hard wired into our brains to be attracted to certain features. What you must remember is that models are actually exagerations of what we like and want. We like long thin legs, so they use women that are almost freakishly tall (no offence to tall women, heck my own girlfriend is 6' 1''). We like athletic build, so they use freakishly skinny women, etc. etc. That doesn't mean that "normal" women need to look like that.

Something else to realize is how neurotic and insecure most models are (I have dated one, for real, and was exposed to all of her model friends). These women are mental wrecks. Ironically they have been made fun of and ridiculed most of their lives for not being "normal", for being too tall, too thin, you name it. It is a double edge sword.

The moral of he story, be happy with who you are and quit blaming you lack of self respect on others. And if you women think your man thinks you should be someone that you are not, get another man, a REAL MAN.
 
How have I been personally affected by the use of models in advertising such as Victoria's Secret? Very little, except that I find it spawns discussions in which I feel men are being unfairly judged.

From an advertising standpoint the use of those models to sell products is done to generate sales among the target audience. Namely women. Men might buy things from Victoria's Secret or look at the ads. But the vast majority of sales come from women and that is who the ads are targeted at. Furthermore, the decisions to run these ads and use these models are GENERALLY not made by heterosexual, male executives. Rather this is an industry run by women and homosexual men for women.

Fine fine. Sales are sales. But what about the psychological effects of these ads on American women and girls? It can be harmful, I won't argue that. Many women have serious body image issues. Issues that stem from their own sense of competition with all women they see and their ideas about what men want. They see these ads and the models in them as being representative of the pinnacles of femininity. As such, this must be what men want and what they must become to be beautiful. And that is where the harm is, since most women cannot ever look like those models.

So, many women feel unattractive, undesirable, and unfeminine. Which they rightly feel is unfair. But which they seldom realize is also fundamentally untrue. Because it is very likely that the men around them feel they are attractive, desirable, and feminine…

Oh but what about Playboy? That is a men’s magazine targeted at men and what men want, right? Well, almost. We men are intensely visual creatures. We respond to our environment first from a visual standpoint. That includes sexual attraction. There are visual cues and traits that we are drawn to, signs of reproductive health, vitality, etc. that we make snap judgments about from what we see. This happen automatically, very quickly, and without any conscious thought. Those women in “men’s magazines†are caricatures of those signals men instinctively notice. But that does not then make them exactly what men want.

There have been studies done on that very subject by people far better informed and smarter than I am. But the end result is very much the same. Men want a woman who looks healthy, young, shapely, feminine, and nothing like a man. Some models fit that description, but not all. Generally, men marry and WANT TO MARRY women who would be overweight by those artificial standards so many women believe in.

But if that is true, why do men look at these models and magazines? For the very same reasons that women read romance novels, watch movies like “Shakespeare In Loveâ€, or like romantic candlelit dinners. Our attraction to the exaggerated female form is very much like women’s attraction to “Romance.†Neither sex seems to understand the other’s attraction to such things, but there it is. And that is all it is, a difference.

I don’t believe most men look at models and grumble that the woman in their life isn’t that good. Anymore than I believe women watch a romantic movie and grumble that their man isn’t as good as the movie character. But if he does act that way, HE is the one with a problem. And in thinking about it a bit, perhaps we guys should feel a little threatened by romance novels… ;)
 
Wow, this went deep quick. :)

You guys all seem pretty intellegent, then again buying a Busa ought to be complementory entrance into MENSA anyway. :D

Reversing the topic [which is dumb because it was created with a specific class-driven intention] I pick up copies of Men's Health all the time and see the well built, tanned and toned muscle builder on the cover and RARELY do I long to be that guy or feel infirior to that image. I know I COULD be that way if I dedicated the time and effort but I do other things that take up that time instead and am fine NOT being that way. I'm still an 8 or a 9 [self confidence standing tall] even as a light weight tall thin guy, so I don't care what ads tell me I should be. But I'm also EXTRTEMELY self supportive, well balanced, accepting of others, and comfortable with everything in life, and understand many are not... and sometimes they use those images as a measure. :/ bummer for that.

BTW anyone ever notice TV shows that feature really HOT detectives with long hair and nails? I have NEVER, EVER seen a real life police, detective type woman who was really 'hot'. Have you?:super: What a stupid lie
 
Thanks for the input guys, Good stuff so far.

One thought, Buggle boy had a jeans add running about 8 years ago that had a bunch of tasty ladies bouncing around in mens clothes looking sexy...That was Pure genious...The Adds in maxim especially CK stuff Kill me...I wanna see some oiled up dude lounging on the beach?:super: HELL NO!  I don't even slow down at the adds....I dunno what advertisers are thinking...I really don't.....OK OK

My Topic I don't wanna derail it either...Please stay on topic for just another few hours...Thanks

Rev
 
Not to make this an argument, but while some of you claim that models are used in women's mags, and that the industry is run by (per WWJD) women and homosexuals to target the female segment of the population, lest we forget just about every beer ad on TV and motorcycle magazine in the rack?  These are targeted at men, and freely use sex to sell their product.  It's not so much the woman on the cover of Vogue I worry about...it's having to sit through commercial after commercial of bikini clad women used solely to target my husband and sell a product...

I'm not disagreeing with what anyone's said here today; just trying to emphasize from a female viewpoint that when we talk about models being used to sell sex, it isn't just on women's magazine covers or Victoria's Secret catalogs.  Hell, I remember all of the talk over the Victoria's Secret show that was aired on TV a while back...I wasn't listening to my girlfriends talk about how excited they were to see models in underwear; it was targeted to and watched by men...

What I'm trying to say is that it's somewhat unfair to blame women for this type of advertising...I don't buy Cosmo or Vogue...I'm not affected by any advertising supposedly aimed at me.  When marketing aimed at men uses sex so explicitly, it's difficult for women to believe that men aren't affected by it...

No soapbox...just a different view from what you guys might think... :super:
 
Points well taken Michelle, I agree with you too. The same models that are used to sell products to women in Vogue are used to sell beer etc. to men, and in a quite shallow way.

The difference is that they are only to get our attention to buy beer. They put them in women magazines for something completely different, to make women feel that they must buy more fashions and health/exercise/beauty products to try to look like the models.

And yes, the VS show was aimed at men. This was to convince us to by VS fashions for our girlfriends so that our women will look more like the models.

It's all crap, don't take it personally. Don't buy it, don't look at it, don't read it, turn it off, whatever. When it no longer sells it will stop.


I have spent a ton at VS on my girlfriend. But believe me, she is beautiful to me because of who she is and not because she looks good in VS stuff and is 6' tall 130lbs. I really mean this, really. But this makes me a hypochrate of sorts I guess. Sorry about that.

And besides we all know what a real woman is right? One that can handle a Hayabusa!!!! And she if she looks like Heidi Klum, all the better (sorry about that I could not resist, after all I am a man).
 
Object of adolecent fantasy, eye candy, etc... No effect on my choice of mate. All people have there place. If I could sell my body like the models do, I would. I cannot remember buying anything because it was hawked by a babe in a g-string, except a lapdance, but that is a different story. LOL

just my 2bitz
 
I'm not in the least bit offended...don't think that I am...I just wanted to clarify that what guys might think is really targeted at women is in fact targeted at men...like VS...and that many of the glossy mags that you think are targeted at women are really only read by teen girls...

It's funny, but now that this subject has come up, I realize how little I pay attention to women's mags now...all through high school and college I faithfully bought Cosmo (and my then boyfriend/now hubby flipped through it religiously I might add...you know, the pics entertained him!), but the older I get, the less I even notice magazine like that.

What's bad is that they are supposed to target "career" women, but they in fact seem to target the younger gals at an age that is very impressionable...I remember reading "Seventeen" magazine long before I was 17 years old, and then Cosmo once I was 17.  The editors know their target, and they nail it every time...

...now, I read Dr. Suess :tounge: ...occassionally flip through Entertainment Weekly and enjoy several motorcycle mags...I'm not their target audience anymore, and that's the problem.  That's why there are so many young girls starving themselves and having nips and tucks...it's not that women are gullible or that we're all self-loathing and destructive; it's that the ones reading those sexy "womens" magazines are really too young to be doing so!  I was one of them...

No apologies to me please...I was just trying to interject the female perspective, and I might add that seeing a bit of the real male perspective is enlightening...  :)
 
One more point to add here. Yes men like the way models look, me included, but it is hard wired into our brains to be attracted to certain features. What you must remember is that models are actually exagerations of what we like and want. We like long thin legs, so they use women that are almost freakishly tall (no offence to tall women, heck my own girlfriend is 6' 1''). We like athletic build, so they use freakishly skinny women, etc. etc. That doesn't mean that "normal" women need to look like that.

Something else to realize is how neurotic and insecure most models are (I have dated one, for real, and was exposed to all of her model friends). These women are mental wrecks. Ironically they have been made fun of and ridiculed most of their lives for not being "normal", for being too tall, too thin, you name it. It is a double edge sword.

The moral of he story, be happy with who you are and quit blaming you lack of self respect on others. And if you women think your man thinks you should be someone that you are not, get another man, a REAL MAN.
what we like and are supposed to be attracted to is also dictated to us by the media;lets not forget that marilyn monroe would be 45lbs over weight today,and the models for victorian era art are 'fat with small breasts',but they sure were hot back then.so to say we are hard wired to be attracted to certain features,i think, is false
 
I think that it is important to note that there really isn't anyone to blame for the way advertising is used or the way sex is used in advertising. There really is no hidden agenda to make women feel badly about themselves or to promote the concept that all women should be shaped like runway models. Ad agencies and companies with products to sell use sex and sexy models because it gets attention. Men look because we are literally programed to look by our biology. Women look because they always check out the other women around themselves and rate their relative attractiveness. Either way, the sexy chick on the billboard has captured both sexes attention and then the product can get noticed too. It works. So it is used.

Although it does happen, it is rare for men to feel terrible about themselves as a result of seeing a picture of some well-muscled hunk on a billboard. Now that isn't because men has inherently better self-image than women. It is just that men apply different values when making a judgement about how the measure up to others. It might have to do with prestige, power, money, or how nice their car is. It might have to do with how well they play football, ride their bikes, or how often they get lucky. But it usually has nothing to do with how his waistline compares to the Calvin Klein model's.

As a society we can try to ban certain types of ads. Or boycot products with advertising we don't like. Which can have an effect on how sex is used to sell. But we cannot change human nature on a whim. Sex and sexiness will still attract the attention of men and women. Women will continue to feel they are in a subliminal competition with every woman they know about. Men will continue to live in a world ruled first and foremost by their sense of sight and be drawn to look at the female form.
 
Uh Thanks for keeping to the original question...you pack of A.D.D. Bastids! :D
 
Hey...it's a can of worms...can't help it...

And you of all people should know that it's hard to put something in to words in just a sentence or two!  :D

:bounce:
 
"what we like and are supposed to be attracted to is also dictated to us by the media;lets not forget that marilyn monroe would be 45lbs over weight today,and the models for victorian era art are 'fat with small breasts',but they sure were hot back then.so to say we are hard wired to be attracted to certain features,i think, is false"

I wish I could point you all in the direction of the study I'm refering too, but I can't remember all the details. But anyway somebody did this study on attractiveness using cross cultural data and data from previous centuries. They studied pictures and paintings and also did surveys here and in lots of other cultures around the world. The whole idea was to see if there were any constants when it came to what was beautiful in the female form.

They came up with the notion of hip-to-waist ratio. I don't remember the number, but the idea was that there was this ratio of hip size relative to waist size that was nearly universally appealling. The ratio is what counts here. Not the acutual measurements.

From decade to decade and culture to culture, local customs and fashion trends will suggest a certain weight is ideal. But the ideal ratio of hip size to waist size seems to remain very similar. They cited Marilyn Monroe as an example. She happens to have had a hip-to-waist ratio that is almost exactly the same as the Victoria's Secret models they were using. I don't know their names.

The point is that style has changed since the early 60s, just as it has since Victorian times. So weight and measurement ideals have shifted too. But the comon thread between the beauties of the 1800s and the beauties of today is real -- and it is that which draws men regardless of our societal programming.

I'm not trying to discount the reality of the brainwashing we have all undergone. Our culture in this day and age dictates things. Like 5'10" and 135 lbs. is supposedly better than 5'3" and 175 lbs. But the biological side is with us too and it too is very real. And it dictates that Marilyn M. is pretty as well as Anna K... and for similar reasons.
 
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