My Thoughts & Experience Regarding Exhaust Systems

[JINKSTER]

Well I'll stand up for the bolt on's, I love my Bolt on's because they are a 15minute job, required NO additional tuning, look great, sound great, and are holding up wonderfully.  No fuss no muss.  No custom maps, no dyno required...

 

The time and energy spent into properly tuning and installing a full system for 12hp or so is kinda silly in my opinion unless your racing.  The weight saved is cool, but really besides being loud, 90% of the time those extra horses are useless.  I know it's not the popular mind set, ya know being practical but spending a Grand or two on a bike with 150hp already is mostly a mental/bench racing exercise.  

Folks go on and on about lightest weight by 2 lbs (Skip Breakfast).  Or 5 extra horsepower (open your throttle all the way)... On and on, I know it's fun to fiddle with the machines, but for the most part garage tuners are only trading Bottom end for Top end, and paying out the ass for the pleasure.

As for the Yoshimura pipes?  Dude, the Pipes are fuggin nearly invisible on the Busa, what are ya worried about.

They fit better than most, their canisters are second to none, and they are relatively affordable.  Hell get a Ti system and start worrying about how to keep em' silver.  

  But I wouldn't jump all the way oer to Muzzys.... That's like throwing bowtie parts on a Ford.  

So I say save your money folks, buy some slip ons, and a track school weekend and really get faster, It's most likely NOT a lack of ponies slowing ya down...  I'm not saying you personally Jink, I am saying anyone.

 My .02 anyhoo...

"Well I'll stand up for the bolt on's, I love my Bolt on's because they are a 15minute job, required NO additional tuning, look great, sound great, and are holding up wonderfully. No fuss no muss. No custom maps, no dyno required... "

Yes...I agree...bolt-ons are the epitomy of convienience for the mechanically un-inclined.

"The time and energy spent into properly tuning and installing a full system for 12hp or so is kinda silly in my opinion unless your racing. The weight saved is cool, but really besides being loud, 90% of the time those extra horses are useless. I know it's not the popular mind set, ya know being practical but spending a Grand or two on a bike with 150hp already is mostly a mental/bench racing exercise.

"

Well?...first off...I typically get to use all that 150stock rwhp several times a day when ripping through 1st, 2nd and sometimes even 3rd gear...on a wild day wid das crew?...4th & 5th as well...and even your average wrench shouldn't take more than 1/2 a day to swap out the exhaust system and plug in a power commander (or what I'll probably go with which is TFI's Techlusion which requires no remapping) and then it's just an hour to run'er over to the dyno and get'er dialed in...in less than a day...which to me doesn't seem like a whole lotta effort considering it's going into a bike I'll be riding with pride for the next 3-5 years or more so...he11...I actually enjoy such tinkering..as a labor of love...if anything?...I get depressed when it's all done and over.....and then I look for the next thing to do

...but that's just me.

however I don't feel too special cause there's many others out there who are just like me...

"Folks go on and on about lightest weight by 2 lbs (Skip Breakfast). Or 5 extra horsepower (open your throttle all the way)... On and on, I know it's fun to fiddle with the machines, but for the most part garage tuners are only trading Bottom end for Top end, and paying out the ass for the pleasure."

Actually?...the weight savings of a full system is quite incredible...far more than the 2lbs you infer...more like 25-30lbs as the stock headpipes are double walled steel and weigh down the front end like an anchor and...I've seen folks here pay nearly as much for twin slip-ons than what a brand new SS Full Muzzy System can be had for...which is right at about $565.....ass?...pleasure?...you bet!

L8R, Bill.

 

[grabntwist]

Great write up! I have given my opinions on different manufactures and their qualities in the past this generally starts a pissing match and doesent get to far so to sum it up as the old saying goes, "you get what you pay for".

Although slip-on's in most cases are less expensive and the more logical way to go for a rider that doesen't want to spend much and isn't worried about performance (not me btw), they are not for a Busa. Considering the dual can thing a quality set of slip-ons will most of the time be within' a few bucks of a decent quality full pipe.

Just an opinion.

 

[JINKSTER]

Considering the dual can thing a quality set of slip-ons will most of the time be within' a few bucks of a decent quality full pipe.

Just an opinion.

Ed Zackery.

 

[BA BUSA]

I went with the Akropovic EVO full titanium system

its not cheap...but you sure get what you pay for

 

[FL Knifemaker]

I went with the Akropovic EVO full titanium system

its not cheap...but you sure get what you pay for  

Exactly!! Holding one stock can in one hand and my complete Akro system in the other and realizing the full system was lighter made it worth every penny. I also went with the JC mapped PC at the same time. Its only money I saved a ton of money by making my own pair valve block offs so it all evens out, LOL!!

Great post Jinxter!! Now if I could just find time to ride the damn thing

 

[BusaWizard]

Now this is something I have never heard. So if you do a 4-2-1 setup you actually LOSE low end power?

Ye, me either, according to the Brock you gain low and midrange with the 4-2-1 system.

 

[timebombrob]

WOW you just talked me out of a yoshi system and into a muzzy, anyway thanks for the heads up, you really did your homework on that one

 

[WarBaby]

Now this is something I have never heard. So if you do a 4-2-1 setup you actually LOSE low end power?

Ye, me either, according to the Brock you gain low and midrange with the 4-2-1 system.

The "2" in 4-2-1 theoretically increases low-to-mid range power (over a 4-1 design) through collector-induced cylinder scavenging effects but...there are many variables that must converge by design for the theory to be realized as a tuned exhaust gain. Both 4-2-1 and 4-1 can produce stellar peak results with a slight peak advantage going to the 4-1 style--when properly designed.  

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[bigoltool]

Now this is something I have never heard. So if you do a 4-2-1 setup you actually LOSE low end power?

Ye, me either, according to the Brock you gain low and midrange with the 4-2-1 system.

The "2" in 4-2-1 theoretically increases low-to-mid range power (over a 4-1 design) through collector-induced cylinder scavenging effects but...there are many variables that must converge by design for the theory to be realized as a tuned exhaust gain. Both 4-2-1 and 4-1 can produce stellar peak results with a slight peak advantage going to the 4-1 style--when properly designed.

Aren't the crossover tubes on some pipes designed to counter this effect?

 

[WarBaby]

Crossover (or "balance") tubes are used to broaden the powerband by increasing low/mid RPM average torque. This is typically achieved by flattening the torque peak(s).

 

[JINKSTER]

Now this is something I have never heard. So if you do a 4-2-1 setup you actually LOSE low end power?

Ye, me either, according to the Brock you gain low and midrange with the 4-2-1 system.

The "2" in 4-2-1 theoretically increases low-to-mid range power (over a 4-1 design) through collector-induced cylinder scavenging effects but...there are many variables that must converge by design for the theory to be realized as a tuned exhaust gain. Both 4-2-1 and 4-1 can produce stellar peak results with a slight peak advantage going to the 4-1 style--when properly designed.  

well imho that "theory" sux.

as it's been my personal experience that the 4-2-1 design is much free'er flowing than is 4-1 designs as follows....

4-2-1 type systems have of course 4 headpipes which run into (2) 2 pipe collectors and then those two "secondary" pipes (carrying 2 cylinders each) run for a distance and then join into the 1 primary collector which "in theory" is supposed to make for a far more free'er flowing exhaust as all four banks run for quite a distance before "collecting" joining together...where a point of "combined backpressure" is established...which while free'er flowing for max exhaust characteristics and greatly enhanced top-end perfomance greatly reduces the backpressure signal at the mid-revs and really takes it's toll on the low-end revs...which typically reduces torque levels in those ranges and is the very ranges that give tuners nightmares trying to sort out...and it is these very wide open, free flowing system concepts that had the real race bikes of yesteryear (prior to computerized ignition wizardry available today) revving at 3,500rpms while at the sitting at the starting line just to keep'em running...and initially the 4-2-1 exhaust concept used to be known as "The Triple Y" and originally designed/created by Carol Shelby...which we now call the 4-2-1.

In comparison and conversly?...the 4-1 systems ajoins all 4 headpipes into a single collector....and in relativly rapid fashion (as opposed to a 4-2-1 system) as the single primary 4-1 collector is typically located far further north in the system than it is in a 4-2-1 arrangment....which in turn the 4-1 systems combined backpressure signal is much closer to the point of origin....retaining much of the engines low-mid range power as compared to a 4-2-1 system..which when tuned right should give slightly better numbers up top (due to it's free'er flowing design) but...does not retain the same low-mids a 4-1 will.

as I understand it and...L8R, Bill.

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[WarBaby]

And that is what makes the subjest interesting. Happy trails...  

 

[DaCol.]

Very interesting and educational

, but my head hurts now

, I think I'll just go ride an blow away some squids  

It's always fun when I wait for'em down the road, take my helmet off and see their faces when they see my age and I ask'em,

Sup-tin broke on your bike  

 

[JINKSTER]

Very interesting and educational

, but my head hurts now

, I think I'll just go ride an blow away some squids  

It's always fun when I wait for'em down the road, take my helmet off and see their faces when they see my age and I ask'em,

Sup-tin broke on your bike  

I LOVE IT!!!

 

[BusaWizard]

Very interesting and educational

, but my head hurts now

, I think I'll just go ride an blow away some squids

It's always fun when I wait for'em down the road, take my helmet off and see their faces when they see my age and I ask'em,

Sup-tin broke on your bike

good one

 

[Revlis]

I hear ya Jink, you think your using your bike to it's utmost on public roads regularly and you need the extra ponies.  Cool.  

I was just pointing out that bolt on's are a viable alternative for those who feel the Busa makes plenty of power as is and is mearly looking for something more than a whisper.  

Folks carrying on about the Full system costing just a little more than bolt ons are still missing the cost of the Power commander and tunning.  So add another $500 over the cost of good set of Bolt ons, more if your getting a high quality full system.  

I really dig the HMF Highmounts for example, they sound sweet and look fuggin rad, I am not saying that Bolt ons are the only way to go, just that they are perfect if all your looking to do is give your ride a voice.  

 I will say though, that adding a full system and a PC to your busa still isn't going to make you faster.  If your slow you'll still be slow, just slow and loud.  

I fully understand the desire to tinker though, it's part of the hobby.  Hell look at Bullet, he's a professional tinkerer...

As for the ...ass? ...pleasure?..... Thing?  Are you trying to pick me up?  I'm sorry bro, but I am not inclined that way though I am flattered.  

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[JINKSTER]

I hear ya Jink, you think your using your bike to it's utmost on public roads regularly and you need the extra ponies.  Cool.  

I was just pointing out that bolt on's are a viable alternative for those who feel the Busa makes plenty of power as is and is mearly looking for something more than a whisper.  

Folks carrying on about the Full system costing just a little more than bolt ons are still missing the cost of the Power commander and tunning.  So add another $500 over the cost of good set of Bolt ons, more if your getting a high quality full system.  

I really dig the HMF Highmounts for example, they sound sweet and look fuggin rad, I am not saying that Bolt ons are the only way to go, just that they are perfect if all your looking to do is give your ride a voice.  

 I will say though, that adding a full system and a PC to your busa still isn't going to make you faster.  If your slow you'll still be slow, just slow and loud.  

I fully understand the desire to tinker though, it's part of the hobby.  Hell look at Bullet, he's a professional tinkerer...

As for the ...ass? ...pleasure?..... Thing?  Are you trying to pick me up?  I'm sorry bro, but I am not inclined that way though I am flattered.  

"I hear ya Jink, you think your using your bike to it's utmost on public roads regularly and you need the extra ponies. Cool."

If I took you out on the roads in the middle of my state?...not only would you understand....you would agree.

"I was just pointing out that bolt on's are a viable alternative for those who feel the Busa makes plenty of power as is and is mearly looking for something more than a whisper. "

I...understand.

"Folks carrying on about the Full system costing just a little more than bolt ons are still missing the cost of the Power commander and tunning. So add another $500 over the cost of good set of Bolt ons, more if your getting a high quality full system."

Didn't someone here already mention..you get what you pay for?....and you're somewhere's between exagerating and justifying with those cost figures there...heck....two quality carbon fiber cannisters are almost as much as a single can CF cannister full system...you're waivering Rev!

"I really dig the HMF Highmounts for example, they sound sweet and look fuggin rad, I am not saying that Bolt ons are the only way to go, just that they are perfect if all your looking to do is give your ride a voice.

I will say though, that adding a full system and a PC to your busa still isn't going to make you faster. If your slow you'll still be slow, just slow and loud.

"

Hell Rev....everybody here knows I'm slow as shid....but that doesn't lessen my appreciation for great engine/bike performance.

"I fully understand the desire to tinker though,"

No you don't...cause if you did?..we wouldn't even be having this discusion....or?...better yet?....you'd be advocating full systems right along with me!

"As for the ...ass? ...pleasure?..... Thing? Are you trying to pick me up? I'm sorry bro, but I am not inclined that way though I am flattered."

If you could possibly twist thins bad enough to think I was trying to pick you up?...I hate to be the one to inform you that you most likely are..."inclined that way"...hence the "flattered" feelings.

Dude...fer shame!....

L8R, Bill.

 

[JINKSTER]

BTW Rev...if the mindset of bolt-ons is just for the folks who want more than "a whisper" and...for appearance?...retaining the dual exhaust "Looks"?....wouldn't that make bolt-ons the prefered mod for loud posers?....as compared to those who prefer full systems who are looking for max weight savings and max performance?

Love, Bill.

 

[The Big Red One]

Well I'll stand up for the bolt on's, I love my Bolt on's because they are a 15minute job, required NO additional tuning, look great, sound great, and are holding up wonderfully.  No fuss no muss.  No custom maps, no dyno required...  

The time and energy spent into properly tuning and installing a full system for 12hp or so is kinda silly in my opinion unless your racing.  The weight saved is cool, but really besides being loud, 90% of the time those extra horses are useless.  I know it's not the popular mind set, ya know being practical but spending a Grand or two on a bike with 150hp already is mostly a mental/bench racing exercise.  

Folks go on and on about lightest weight by 2 lbs (Skip Breakfast).  Or 5 extra horsepower (open your throttle all the way)... On and on, I know it's fun to fiddle with the machines, but for the most part garage tuners are only trading Bottom end for Top end, and paying out the ass for the pleasure.

As for the Yoshimura pipes?  Dude, the Pipes are fuggin nearly invisible on the Busa, what are ya worried about.

They fit better than most, their canisters are second to none, and they are relatively affordable.  Hell get a Ti system and start worrying about how to keep em' silver.  

  But I wouldn't jump all the way oer to Muzzys.... That's like throwing bowtie parts on a Ford.  

So I say save your money folks, buy some slip ons, and a track school weekend and really get faster, It's most likely NOT a lack of ponies slowing ya down...  I'm not saying you personally Jink, I am saying anyone.

 My .02 anyhoo...

I'm middle of the road on this one. I bought a pair of Viper oval bolt ons that cost me $370 shipped to my door. They're straight through race cans and have a nice healthy, but still reasonable sound, and made a noticeable diff in performance....not huge but noticeable. With 160 ponies on tap I don't need any more power..but the sound, looks and slight power gain along with the ease of install was way cool

Now I wouldn't spend the same amount for bolt ons that I could get a full system for.....personally if I hadn't found the Vipers so cheap I woulda stayed stock....I don't want the hassle of a full system install, and I don't need the extra power.
But I think for folks that are happy with the power but want some more bling and sound with a slight power gain, bolt ons are just fine.
Not every one is looking for max power...so paying big bucks for a full system and the pc, and the hassle of the install just doesn't appeal to every one. To each his own I guess.
I've did tons of research on bolt ons vs full sytems including dyno sheets on tons of diff bikes...Busa included, and the typical power gain for a set of bolt ons/filter on the Busa is 4-6 ponies....full systems/filter seem to average 8-12. So as Rev said for alot of folks the ponies they gain with a full sytem don't always justify the cost/tuning/hassle. I guess its really up to the individual on what they need to feel good. I'll never have the need to install a full system....but I may turbo

 

[The Big Red One]

Now this is something I have never heard. So if you do a 4-2-1 setup you actually LOSE low end power?

Ye, me either, according to the Brock you gain low and midrange with the 4-2-1 system.

Yes you do....the 4-1 is the top end set-up. 4-2-1 is the next comprise up torque/hp wise from the stock duals which are more torque oriented.