You might find this amusing: I jusy bought an 04 with some road wear on the right fairing. The seller said that you should only use the front brakes on this type of bike. This comment seemed a bit weird but I let it slide. The rear brake made a little metallic noise and didn't stop well, so when I brought it home I checked it out. Someone had installed ebc hh pads but one was backwards, with the metal backing plate against the rotor. I'm guessing this accounted for the comment, and maybe the road rash.
Motorcycle Safety Topic of the Week
- Thread starter ridercoach
- Start date
Thanks for the excellent suggestion about taking the time to practice fast stops and watching the stopping distance to get better.
I'm going to give it a try in my industrial park after hours as soon I get some better protective gear.
I've practiced hole-shots and cornering but hate to admit I never thought about practicing breaking.
I'm rather stop a few yards from Granny's Caddy when it pulls out in front of me, instead of a few yards over it.
I'm going to give it a try in my industrial park after hours as soon I get some better protective gear.
I've practiced hole-shots and cornering but hate to admit I never thought about practicing breaking.
I'm rather stop a few yards from Granny's Caddy when it pulls out in front of me, instead of a few yards over it.
don't forget about the ICG
The whut? The instantaneous center of gravity.
When you get that center above the front axle, you rear comes off the ground.
How? Grab the brakes quickly.
See, when you gradually apply the brakes, you keep the ICG below the front axle. This also means that the rear tire approaches its traction limit as it's weight decreases.
But, did you notice that when you only use the rear brake, the back squats down?
It's because you are putting the ICG below the pavement.
There is a book out there for further reading, can't remember the title, but it talks about setting up suspensions on cars. The physics of the CG's are all explained and applicable to bikes too.
The whut? The instantaneous center of gravity.
When you get that center above the front axle, you rear comes off the ground.
How? Grab the brakes quickly.
See, when you gradually apply the brakes, you keep the ICG below the front axle. This also means that the rear tire approaches its traction limit as it's weight decreases.
But, did you notice that when you only use the rear brake, the back squats down?
It's because you are putting the ICG below the pavement.
There is a book out there for further reading, can't remember the title, but it talks about setting up suspensions on cars. The physics of the CG's are all explained and applicable to bikes too.
Wonderful thread. I am one of those riders that uses *both* brakes. I try to be very aware of what each of the brakes is doing. I do understand the thoughts about panic braking causing the rear to get too much force, but that is a practice and training issue in my opinion. I have practiced (some, not a lot yet) quick stops on my new 06 LE, but the combination of new bike/tires, cold weather, and dirty roads is keeping those practice session short and admitedly tentative. I'll be spending lots more time practicing quick/safe stops when the weather turns.
Keep up the good work Coach!
Keep up the good work Coach!
Hmm realy good stuff here Rider Coach and I am a noob to this board so I have a bit of catching up to do..I have a question regarding engine braking and its relevance and I shall paste an article on a kiwi board for your critique and opinion:
Brakes are primarily for braking and engines are primarily for accelerating.
Approaching a corner I use the brakes to slow down whilst shifting down to arrange my RPM correctly to maintain and eventually power me out of the corner at the appropriate time with as much grunt as required.
Too higher gear and you open the tap and it wont accelerate out (everyone else just sails past or runs up yer ass) and too lower gear and it just revvs the #### out of it, makes a lot of noise (and you are now alone on the road) so the skill on down shifting into a corner is based around an eventual power application. The advantage (or byproduct) of shifting down is that you can also use some engine braking advantage and this can be a nice bonus. On a lot of bikes this can be an excessive amount that will give you a rear wheel lock up, hence the slipper clutches that are fitted to such types. On a Sprot bike its your front wheel that does all the retarding in a straight line and the back brake and engine braking augments it on a lightening (as in getting light on the road) rear wheel. However it is a common technique to use the braking effect (brake and/or engine) on the rear wheel to assist with stability and directional control during high speed turn entries or, in some cases, patching up an over-cooked turn whilst retaining a suitable lean angle as the front brake will tend to stand you up. Tricky stuff using any sort of a brake whilst leaned over in a turn and often ends in tears..So I gues the moral of the story, or the safest option is to get it all done (or at least the majority of it) before you roll into the corner. Somewhere around this site I see a Signature (can't remember where) that says something like "Enter the corners slow and exit fast" which makes good sound sense to a person that rides on the public roads. As always the application of any sort of rear wheel braking needs to be treated with respect as it has similar effect to that of pulling only the handbrake on your car and if mishandled the rear wheel will loose grip (skidding wheels have less friction) and eventually attempt to overtake the front.
Brakes are primarily for braking and engines are primarily for accelerating.
Approaching a corner I use the brakes to slow down whilst shifting down to arrange my RPM correctly to maintain and eventually power me out of the corner at the appropriate time with as much grunt as required.
Too higher gear and you open the tap and it wont accelerate out (everyone else just sails past or runs up yer ass) and too lower gear and it just revvs the #### out of it, makes a lot of noise (and you are now alone on the road) so the skill on down shifting into a corner is based around an eventual power application. The advantage (or byproduct) of shifting down is that you can also use some engine braking advantage and this can be a nice bonus. On a lot of bikes this can be an excessive amount that will give you a rear wheel lock up, hence the slipper clutches that are fitted to such types. On a Sprot bike its your front wheel that does all the retarding in a straight line and the back brake and engine braking augments it on a lightening (as in getting light on the road) rear wheel. However it is a common technique to use the braking effect (brake and/or engine) on the rear wheel to assist with stability and directional control during high speed turn entries or, in some cases, patching up an over-cooked turn whilst retaining a suitable lean angle as the front brake will tend to stand you up. Tricky stuff using any sort of a brake whilst leaned over in a turn and often ends in tears..So I gues the moral of the story, or the safest option is to get it all done (or at least the majority of it) before you roll into the corner. Somewhere around this site I see a Signature (can't remember where) that says something like "Enter the corners slow and exit fast" which makes good sound sense to a person that rides on the public roads. As always the application of any sort of rear wheel braking needs to be treated with respect as it has similar effect to that of pulling only the handbrake on your car and if mishandled the rear wheel will loose grip (skidding wheels have less friction) and eventually attempt to overtake the front.
Very good topic and nice job by the coach. Like he said, 70% of the braking comes from the front wheel and the rest from the back wheel. MSF gives good advice when they tell you to get your "slowing" done before you enter the curve!... then, look, press, lean, and roll on the juice. About the only sure fire way to effectively brake while in the curve is to straighten the thing up first... otherwise, it's a guessing game of whether or not you're going to keep the shiny side up. Just my 002 worth
+1 from me. I'm a noob too. The material on this forum is awesome.
I'd really love to know whether this is a good idea or not. I always downshift first to bleed off a little speed while squeezing the front and rear brakes - well before I reach a corner. Result being my corner entry speeds are realllly low. And then once I've entered the corner I start rolling on the throttle as much as required.
I know I'm kinda chicken but ever since I high sided in a corner around 15 years back, I just cant bring myself to enter a corner at any kind of speed
I'm always slowing down and preparing to straighten up and hit the brakes at any moment in the corner.
I'm hoping to take the MSF advanced class to try and get my technique sorted out, thoughts anyone?
Busa_Nick
Registered
Very nice post. In addition you should get used to using both brakes at the same time, as far as downshifting into turns, it all depends on what your gear your in/RPM. I tend to downshift alot and not have to use the brakes as much into the turn, just remember the faster your going into a turn the more leaning you should be doing also. It's always best to stay more in the inside left middle part of the lane so others can see you, you should always be scanning ahead. The worst thing people do is take the turn to wide, and too fast, then they end up running off the road or onto the shoulder, I've seen it happen, its not pretty. Also Rev, its best to stay back in the pack anyways and let more of the inexperienced riders up front, so they can be watched.
whitechocolate
Registered
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