Military Personnel (Current/Vet)

[stkr00]

Long time no post, huh?

I have a question concerning the use of privately owned scope on the M16.

I will be going to Iraq in about a month, and I'm picking up a used compact scope with a carry handle mount prior to deploying. The scope will mainly stay in one of the pouches in my over armor vest unless I need it.

Question: Can someone try to find out the regulations concerning use of the scope in theater. Off the weapon, it's just a poor man's range finder (P4 sniper reticle), so I'm not worried about that. Just if it's mounted on the weapon.

I would call and ask the command, but I don't want to raise any flags that make them start looking too close.

Thanks for your help

 

[Warputer]

During Desert Storm we were told that we could bring any personal weapon as long as it was registered thru the company armory. I wouldn't see a big deal with a scope.

 

[Devil Dog]

Many Marines used their own accesories in theater.

 

[stkr00]

My main concern is that I'm in the SeaBees, not in the Corps. We are there to build/repair stuff, but at the same time, we are attached to the Marine Expeditionary Force and provide whatever engineering support they need.

We get issued M16's, but we aren't out doing patrols, sweeps, or entries. We do deploy on convoys at times, and do perform work outside the wire, so we still have to be prepared.

I've always shot expert on the M16 with the iron sights, but having a scope would be nice. Knowing the environment we're working in, it would be nice to have something to scan the surrounding area with in case something happens. I'd rather be over prepared than to be sitting there wishing that I had brought it.

I'm just wondering how to bring it up to the range master that I'd like to verify the zero on it. It shouldn't be too far off for short range firing, but for any long range stuff it might fail to put the rounds on target.

Thanks...keep it comin'

 

[bitabur]

Try asking around, keep it informal and hypothetical.

"Hey, if I wanted to get a scope for my m16, would that be ok?"

 

[GSXTacy]

I learned one thing in the military during desert storm and somalia......its easier to beg for forgivness than ask for permission!

 

[stkr00]

(GSXTacy @ Dec. 07 2006,23:52) I learned one thing in the military during desert storm and somalia......its easier to beg for forgivness than ask for permission!

Yup...that's what I was thinking, but I still need to get a few rounds worth of range time with it. That's my delima

 

[frisbee]

I would think that as long as your shots count...

 

[warwgn]

as a seabee if you actually have to use your weapon the shid is real bad and a scope will do you no good anyway. It sounds cool and all but it is a waste of time, and will actually hinder you. I would leave it and take a side arm instead, that would be far more usefull to you than a scope

 

[thrasherfox]

Jim -

My two cents is this.

Scopes are an awesome tool in the right environment.

If your job is a sniper then scopes are pretty much a must.


However in the environment that you will be in, I would not recommend using a scope.

Get good with the iron sites and stay proficient

In the combat environment that you will be in (or potentially be in) you have a pretty good risk of the scope being damaged (rifle dropped, thrown, scope shot, etc) numerous ways to damage a scope.

With the standard iron sites, pretty hard to jack those up.


If you are use to your scope and you count on it, if it gets damaged, not only will you physically not be as familiar with the iron sites as you should be, but there will be a psychological disadvantage you will experience because in your mind at some level you will second guess your shooting abilities now that one of your primary tools have been removed from you.

And the last thing you need in an armed confrontation is doubt in your mind. You need to be able to focus and have confidence in yourself and your equipment.


On a side note, if you are attached to a MEF you will probably not have as much problems. Marines are "usually" focused on getting the job done, how you get that job done is often a secondary concern.

In other words as long as you don’t do anything WAY out of line, normally you wont get much flack.


the only time I have heard of the Marines (or any other branch for that matter) specifying something that people could NOT take was some type of cloth.

I think it was under armor or something like that.

If I remember correctly troops were wearing under armor they bought themselves in order to stay cool but I think it was discovered that if you are burned in someway while wearing under armor on that the material was like melting to the skin and making burns worse

(I think that was it, I will research and see if I can find reference)


Anyway, that is my two cents.

 

[stkr00]

Thrasher...

Thanks for the input. I'm comfortable and proficient with iron sights, and like I said, the scope would just be for one of those "oh chit" scenarios. The scope would primarily just stay in my IBA pouch.

I figure for the cost of the scope...CHEAP...I could at least use it as a range finder, and something to scan the area with during downtime. I'm not a sniper, nor do I have the skills to play one on TV,

I look at it more as one of those special tools you put in your toolbox "just in case" you might need it someday.

 

[thrasherfox]

(stkr00 @ Dec. 08 2006,13:07) Thrasher...

Thanks for the input.  I'm comfortable and proficient with iron sights, and like I said, the scope would just be for one of those "oh chit" scenarios.  The scope would primarily just stay in my IBA pouch.

I figure for the cost of the scope...CHEAP...I could at least use it as a range finder, and something to scan the area with during downtime.  I'm not a sniper, nor do I have the skills to play one on TV,  

 I look at it more as one of those special tools you put in your toolbox "just in case" you might need it someday.

If you are planning on just having it with you in case but you will normally have the weapon configured for iron sites, then if it were me, yeah I would bring the scope. just in case.

I mean if you were pinned down somewhere the scope would be a nice option if you had to take out someone from a distance.


And I have a feeling over there, with everything going on I dont think people are going to give you much grief about it. and like what was said early, easier to ask for forgivness than to ask for permission.

 

[BA BUSA]

Take the scope

 

[HT_USMC]

Zero the scope CONUS, take the scope, zero it again once you hit the sandbox if you can (should be able/required to), and leave it fixed to the rifle with the protective covering affixed/zipped over it - a good set of lens covers that flip up would be ideal. It will remain zero'd better there than if you remove it and reattach it later - assuming you can zero the rifle periodically. In addition, if you get into a fire fight, the last thing you want to do is scramble to attach the scope or feel like you want to versus just using what is/isn't on the rifle as is.

If you're in the rear, you'll have almost no need for it - one would hope. If you're inside the wire in country, it will be a valuable asset if you need to scan at whim for any reason (ie. fast moving POV approaching your work area) - sure beats lugging a set of bino's around. On convoy, these help for picking off the distant rooftops and corners in the event of an ambush.

Keep a low profile Stkr and keep us posted on how things are going!

 

[Gunnybusa]

I had a M4 with rails, no carring handle.

 

[Gunnybusa]

These are great!

 

[Gunnybusa]

These good too.

 

[inthexring]

(GSXTacy @ Dec. 07 2006,14:52) I learned one thing in the military during desert storm and somalia......its easier to beg for forgivness than ask for permission!

Boy aint that the truth, I am sure you would not get in trouble for it, but count on not bringing it back. Just in case. I wouldn't take my own personal weapon unless I didn't mind not bringing it back...just in case. Sometimes the customs could be weird. Or what bs they are trying to pull. But seems easy to get stuff there. Just my experience. I would do it if it were me.

Good luck and be safe!!

 

[Gunnybusa]

Sorry stkr00 I got carried away. Have you put your scope on an M16A4 before? If so and you know it is going to be a multiplier then I say take it.

 

[Revlis]

(stkr00 @ Dec. 07 2006,20:02) My main concern is that I'm in the SeaBees, not in the Corps. We are there to build/repair stuff, but at the same time, we are attached to the Marine Expeditionary Force and provide whatever engineering support they need.

We get issued M16's, but we aren't out doing patrols, sweeps, or entries. We do deploy on convoys at times, and do perform work outside the wire, so we still have to be prepared.

I've always shot expert on the M16 with the iron sights, but having a scope would be nice. Knowing the environment we're working in, it would be nice to have something to scan the surrounding area with in case something happens. I'd rather be over prepared than to be sitting there wishing that I had brought it.

I'm just wondering how to bring it up to the range master that I'd like to verify the zero on it. It shouldn't be too far off for short range firing, but for any long range stuff it might fail to put the rounds on target.

Thanks...keep it comin'

Not Sure STKR but I'd say you are good to go... The ACOG as well as A LOT of other optics have been approved and experience taught me that once in country, the "RULES" regarding such things become meaningless.


BTW, SeaBees Freakin Rock!!! Long Story, but they freaking ROCK. I have family that were in the SeaBees. Some Tough Hardworking SOBs...

Might have to get it mounted and sighted in once in country though, stateside range master/armorer might have some issues. I say this only based on my memory of how rules and regs are followed Stateside VS deployed.