Lowside, highside, push

[EAKbusa]

Time for the dumb question.

I am no newbie but have never raced and although I have some ideas what these terms mean (I am pretty smart, really) I wondered if someone could give me the correct definition for these terms so I am a little more educated when discussing handling quirks/disasters.

 

[BulletTrain]

Not technical definitions by any means but gives you an idea...

Lowside= When the bike lays down and slides out from under you.

Highside= When the rear of the bike gets loose and starts around, but suddenly catches traction and flicks the top of the bike over and basically catapults the rider into the air.

Push= When the direction of the bike isn't changing in proportion to the turning or direction of the front wheel/tire. Like when you lock the front tires on a car and turn either way. The car continues straight while the wheels are turned to one side. There are different degrees of push, though. It's not always a full slide with no change of direction. Maybe it's changing directions but not in proportion to the input you are giving.

Hope this helps. I got these translations from reading net articles and some of Keith Code's writings.

 

[Revlis]

Yep what he said...Lowside generally speaking you walk away.

Highside, generally speaking after the bike launches you in the air then runs over you on it's way past...your carried away... Bad Mojo...

If you know you've lost it and it aint coming back, it's generally a good idea to force a lowside if possible, keep the rear locked, lock the fronts, etc... If you have the presence of mind...or...get teh hell off, before you get launched... worked on the dirt a coupld of times...

Push is just what The Bullet described, your hard in a corner and your front starts kinda ignoring your inputs, or your rear...not doomed yet but sign that you need to slow.

 

[BulletTrain]

If you know you've lost it and it aint coming back, it's generally a good idea to force a lowside if possible, keep the rear locked, lock the fronts, etc...  If you have the presence of mind...

I'd agree that I'd rather force a lowside than risk a highside but what I get from my reading is that if the back starts to slide you're better off slightly accellerating than to let off or hit the brakes and lock the rear. According to Keith Code, gettin' on the gas is the way to handle a slide and rolling off or braking is a contributing factor to a highside when the rear slides out. That's what I took from it anyway.

It really makes more sense to me than grabbing brakes and locking the rear. I don't think you'd want to jack it wide open in a slide but my experience on dirt and what Keith Code claims is the same in roadracing is that a bike naturally countersteers toward the slide by design. Getting on the gas should keep it loose and sliding until the natural countersteer brings the rear back in with maybe a wiggle when it hooks back up.

Keep in mind though that I've never slid a sport bike. All my sliding was done on dirt. If there's a difference then I wouldn't know it. Take my comments for what they cost you here...

 

[EAKbusa]

Ah, ok. I was right about the lowside and push but no idea about the highside. And intersting comments about the lowside save. Makes sense.

I need to get a good book. I hear that the Keith Code stuff is poorly written but good info.

 

[BulletTrain]

I wouldn't say it is "poorly" written, but it could be better. My biggest gripe is how every other friggin' word has an asterisk by it. He seems to feel a need to include the definition of almost every word in the book. When I see an asterisk I think footnote. It distracts the heck out of me the way Code uses them.

 

[gararnett]

When the rear steps out, it is best to continue with whatever input got it there, and not reverse input. In other words, if you locked up the brakes and caused the rear to step out, stay on the brakes and keep the rear locked. If you don't, the rear will violently kick back into line with the front and will probably launch you over the front (can you say Superman? I thought so). And the same for wheelspin induced slide of the rear. WHen you give it too much gas and cause the rear to step out to one side, keep on the gas. If you let up, again the rear will immediately and violently come back in line with the front. The force and abruptness of this coming back into line will send you into Superman mode again. If you stay on the gas, or on the brake as the case may be, you have the best chance of the rear gradually coming back into line and being least likely to induce imitations of Superman. Superman imitations usually involve a broken collar bone, at best, though I have a friend who was unhurt from one. Also note, a high side can occur at almost any speed. Really! I know one who was pitched over at about 15mph, and caused the primary drive gear to jam, necessitating a complete teardown of the engine. But, he was unhurt.

Anyway, all highsides are caused by the rearend getting out of line and then coming back into line violently and pitching the rider over the top. They usually happen when someone tries to save a lowside. Rossi has saved a few highsides, which were rather spectacular to watch.



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[†WÃ￾§†ëD]

seems to me when the rear spins out in a fair lean far enough then the force is removed, the rear WANTS to get in line with the front, but never gets there? so the bike stands up quickly in a rather uncontrollable manner tossing rider and bike. most lowsides occur when the front end washes out. lots of ways to do either I suppose...

 

[WWJD]

Here's a visual aid:
BLACKTOP cut a little on the LOWSIDE:

 

[†WÃ￾§†ëD]

got a shot of the bottom cut a little on the highside?

 

[Cookie]

I'd lowside her highside with a little push.

 

[BulletTrain]

I'd lowside her highside with a little push.

 

[SHODA]

Well stated BT

 

[WWJD]

am I good at derailing threads or what??

 

[Cookie]

,,,,what?

:blush:

 

[Revlis]

I'd lowside her highside with a little push.

OK at least my poorly written comment above generated some discussion... Sorry folks I don't think I was horribly clear. What I was aiming for in my comment was this; If you know you have lost the plot, as in there is no coming back, your going down...What I was trying to say is do ANYTHING to avoid getting highsided... Including, just letting go, Locking the front etc... That was sorta what I was getting at. I mean the chances that you will have time to work out a plan is pretty slim, but it was just a thought...

Otherwise exactly what Gararnett said.

 

[Revlis]

Oh and Keith Codes Books are full of useful information, cleverly hiding underneath a pile of poor writing and freaking Definitions that make me want to cry...

Still some of the better books out there, but damn insulting all at once.
Definate love/hate thing going with Keith "Definition Man" Code.

 

[BulletTrain]

Oh and Keith Codes Books are full of useful information, cleverly hiding underneath a pile of poor writing and freaking Definitions that make me want to cry...

Still some of the better books out there, but damn insulting all at once.  
Definate love/hate thing going with Keith "Definition Man" Code.

Yeah, that is my biggest gripe about TOTW. I start reading and immediately run across asterisks and have no idea why they're there. I look for footnotes and such but nothing. I keep reading to find that he feels some sick need to define every other word at the end of each section. That is the most irritating thing I have ever ran across in a writer's style. Asterisks by every other word is SEVERELY distracting to me. The worst part is that 99.9% of the words he feels the need to define don't even have anything to do with riding! WTF?!?

 

[†WÃ￾§†ëD]

Tommy Hayden was a student of Keith Codes, now Tommy schools Keith....

 

[Revlis]

I hate to say it, but I do think this is a case where those that cannot do Teach. I would still recommend both of Code's books though to anyone who is serious about riding. THough I just got done reading a book by Parks...I think his name is that while it's well written sorta comes apart towards the last 1/4, just stops making sense.

Hands down the best book I have found for real world street riding advice, is David Hough's "Proficiant Motorcycling". Has a spoked wheel on the front which allmost lost me but there was just a ton of good useful riding tips. Not really designed to make you a fster/safer/better rider, but real good for addressing all sorts of street scenario's.