Lowering links?

Replace top clamp or upper triple tree assembly. Imho that is. The spacers work fine but move your control up an equal amount. Forks can be lowered or airide as well. Simpler just to slide the tubes up and strap it at the strip if your gonna race.
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i didnt mean for this post to start a fight between jersey shore 300 fat tire boys and corner takin people-ive had fast cars and loved the lowered look -i think its all about having fun on what u got -this is my first busa , 2nd bike and i dont t think its so gune-ho- one bike overover another, theres so many awesome bikes out there -we (talking about this forum) just we love what we do and more power to it---ride on!:beerchug:
 
:rofl:
Its just a ride height adjustment. Roflcopter.

Throwing the big words out there doesn't help. Torque application 101. Thanks for the enlightenment.
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Okay Mr. Smarty Pants, since you are so quick to toss out insults followed by a happy face thinking you are funny, I'll be happy to point out your extreme lack of understanding of how suspension functions.

Oh, and I'll try not to use any big words you can't understand. Roflcopter!

Since you still argue that adding preload makes the suspension stiffer, I'll quote Andrew Trevitt's words in his book "Sportbike Suspension Tuning".

Page 26: "One common misconception is that the preload adjuster on a fork or shock changes the stiffness of the spring"

Page 44: "It's important to realize that adjusting preload does little - if anything - to affect the stiffness of the suspension. Mostly, it is used to change the suspension's range of operation within the total travel available" ie Ride Height.

Pagek 52: "Adding 10mm of preload to the fork springs will raise the front of the bike (Ride Height) by 10mm. As long as your suspension is not topped out or bottomed out, dialing in more preload does not compress the spring more".

Chapter 5: Springs, Preload and Sag.............. Andrew goes into great detail on how your springs function and how to adjust your ride height using preload in order to adjust geometry to make your bike behave favorably.

The simple explaination that you have yet to grasp is, you cannot change the stiffness (Spring Rate) of a spring without changing the spring itself.

Now, if you choose to continue to toss out insults please send them to Andrew Trevitt @ Sport Rider Magazine. Just maybe you'll get your comments posted in the "Your Abnormal Guide to Things Abnormal" by Andrew Trevitt!

Oh, page 96 by the way, so you can keep an eye out for your Suspension Expertise to be published! :rofl:
 
Does little... Did I say it suddenly makes it feel your you've drastically incresed the rate of the coil itself. He's wrong or your picking and choosing the quotes.

Its simple and you don't have to get butthurt about it. Your effecting the coil height and if you affect that your gonna change the rate of the coil slightly. Go study for a few more hours about rate and quote someone else so your not liable for your misinformation.

If it didn't effect coil height then you would have to have a nut on top of the spring to loosen as you've tightened the lower. Which would effectively do absolutely nothing. I'm no expert or claim to be I guess I'm just a poser.

Go turn the preload adjuster and let me know what the coil does.

If it stays the EXACT same length then nothing is effected. If it changes then it changes the rate of the spring ever so slightly.

Its a bandaid that can make up for slight variances such as rider weight.

I've never claimed to be an expert or anything but I can stand behind what I've learned and discuss it with other to try and learn more unlike yourself that has to result to mudslinging anytime you got a quote that you think supports your poor understanding.
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Let me ask you a question outside of the prior post.

Why if you shorten a coil by preload does it make the ride height go up, yet a higher rate coil at the same height will not need as much preload to equate the same ride height?
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Let me ask you a question outside of the prior post.

Why if you shorten a coil by preload does it make the ride height go up, yet a higher rate coil at the same height will not need as much preload to equate the same ride height?
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Okay, that's a reasonable question. Let me see if I can explain.

I will assume your question is directed towards motorcycle suspension?

Your bikes forks for instance has about 10mm of preload adjustment. However, when the spring is installed at the factory, it always has some preload dialed in by installing let's say, 315mm of spring into a fork that only has room for 300mm. Now you have 15mm of preload without using any of your preload adjustment.

With your preload adjustment backed all the way out, you sit on your bike which overcomes the 15mm or factory preload and compresses the forks let's say,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, 40mm (Rider Sag). The spring is no longer topped out against the spring stop and is compressed 40mm.

Here is were the fun stuff comes in :-). While you are sitting on your bike, crank in all of the 10mm of preload available to you in your preload adjustment. What happens? You guessed it, you can't compress the spring any further without adding weight. What takes place is by adding preload and pushing down on the top of the spring which will not compress without adding weight, you have raised the front of the bike by 10mm. You have sucessfully changed your sag number from 40mm to 30mm.

Setting your sag using preload is nothing more than pushing down on the spring in order to raise the front or rear of the bike. Or lower according to which way you wish to go.

Suspension is an art all it's own. Greek to most but once you get a grasp of how it functions and how twiddling all those little knobs affect your bike's behavior, it becomes great fun. If you are truely interested in digging deep into this mysterious creature, I'd suggest picking up a copy of "Sport Bike Suspension Tuning" by Andrew Trevitt. Andrew does a great job with lots of illustration photos accompanied by detailed explainations. Another good source is Dave Moss's dvd's on suspenson. Dave get's into detail on how to read your tires (My favorite section). Great info!


:beerchug:

Oops, let me add one more thing directed to your question above.
You can only compress the spring using preload if the spring is topped out. Once you add the weight of the bike along with the rider, the fork and shock are no longer topped out so adding preload will not compress the spring further. However, adding preload will raise the bike.
 
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See that's what I'm getting at. You increase the preload which separates the shock for lamens.

Let's say a 180lb rider compresses the coil 5mm. On a stock rate. You throw a 250lber on there and get more compression (sag). So what do you do. The real technical way to fix the problem and get them 5mm of compression(sag) with the 250lb guy is to increase rate by replacing the coil. Then your not over working the shock. By increasing preload you'll unload the shock sooner as well. But you can adjust preload that will net the same sag by affecting the active rate of the coil under compression. Yes its basically a ride height adjustment but your accomplishing the adjustment by changing the compression rate. The rate change won't be noticed unless you ride every day competively and timed. But it can be used for slight changes but its not the right way to account for a longer arm or a heavy laden bike.
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Last part wasn't there when I replied.

So when you achive you desired sag at a higher weight, that means it'll take more weight to sag the suspension back to where you started, right? Basically for lamens terms make the suspension "stiffer".

Just for theory no real numbers.

180lb-5mm sag stock preload

260lb-10mm sag stock preload

Add 5mm preload to the 260lb rider and get 5mm sag. Equal sag/ride height but the 180lb would in theory be at 0 sag right? The bike unloaded would just be "higher". But when you add weight with the 5mm preload it will take more than the original 260lb to achieve 10mm sag correct. Therefore making it "stiffer"?
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No! Adding preload to reduce sag does not make it stiffer. You still have the same spring with the same spring rate. When you sit on the bike it still compresses the spring the same amount as it did before you added preload. You have successfully raised the free sag (Weight of the bike without rider) but the difference between free sag and rider sag will always remain the same no matter how much preload you add or take away.
 
I'm starting to get a headache. Lol. Were saying the same thing diff way.

Preload increases the amount of weight required to get a desired ride height. That's is rate. Its not the rate of the coil that's been changed its the active rate. If you weigh 150 and I weigh 250 the bike is gonna sit lower with me on it. Say an inch lower. If I ajust that with preload it'll take another 100 lbs of weight to regain that inch equal 350 lbs. That is the rate increase cuased by preload. That's why if your lighter than me and you power out of a corner on my chassis the rear end will wanna deflect not settle.
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I also like the look of a lowered 'Busa. I am seriously thinking about lowering my 'Busa. My questions is, what is the best way to lower the front of the bike? :beerchug:

You might want to try this,

Pretty easy install, Lowers the front 1"

https://www.hayabusa.org/forum/general-bike-related-topics/122037-soupys-delivered-time-lower.html

https://www.hayabusa.org/forum/general-bike-related-topics/122106-done-lowered-1-front.html

https://www.hayabusa.org/forum/general-bike-related-topics/122043-question-front-lowering-block.html
 
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The point that I was making is because my bike is lowered I am considered a poser? it can easily be said that the person that wears a leather suit is a poser! thats what they do so I'm not knocking what they wear or how they have their ride setup, my ride is setup to my perference!
 
Agree to disagree.
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It's okay to disagree. I'd suggest you buy Andrew Trevitt's "Sport Bike Suspension Tuning". Could be the best $25 you'll spend all year? Read chapter 5 (Springs, Preload and Sag) thoroughly several times. Andrew explains in detail along with illustrations how springs and preload function as a unit.

I've never heard the term "Active Rate" used in suspension. Active Coils yes, Active Rate no! Maybe you could explain the difference between "Spring Rate" and "Active Spring Rate" or direct me towards a reference source!

:beerchug:
 
Active rate may not be the correct term.

The rate is reflected by amount of force to reduce height by a specified amount?

As the coils become closer together it takes more energy to cause the same amount of change.

Google it. Maybe I'm wrong. I'm on a blackberry so I can't really look it all up and read it. But its all uner coil height and number of active coils.

In theory a coil would compress evenly throught the height bu it doesn't. Whenever a turn of the coil is compressed more than the next, the less compressed of the two would have a lower rate same same for the one that is compresses more would have a higher rate.

Ever heat a coil spring up to get a redneck lowering kit or cut a coil down? The turns are still the same rate but the rate of the coil has changed becaused of the number of active coils.
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Threaded Spring Preload

I'm wrong in terminology but here's a page that clearly explains what I'm getting at.

100lb/in spring preloaded a quarter inch will take 26 pound to begin to compress. Takes more weight to get same travel.

And will continue to compress at normal linear rate until bind, coils become inactive, and the rate of the remaining active coils will increase.
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It also states that preload should not be used to adjust intermittent bottoming. Which was what started this whole thing. I said preload will make a suspension appear to be stiffer but will not correct the problem made by stretching the arm. I'm not gonna try to butcher why but its in there clearly.
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I Have question, if I lower my busa 1", do I have to lower the front? Only reason for lowering gis so I can be more firmly planted when moving backward, so it's more a safety issue for me. I'm 5'11" and can touch the ground with no problems, but would like to be more firmly planted especially when have to back-up on a slight incline.
Along with the 1" drop, would a 4" stretch effect the ride drastically from it's stock ride?
 
Don't forget that rear spring sag height will also change front geometry. It will change the fork angle. The lower the rear of the bike the slower it will turn. If you make the rear higher it will turn in faster. Two different weight people can get the same result's out of the same suspension setting's by making sure the sag is correct. I think the handling is more affected by this than just the rear setting's. Make sense? To answer the question in the last post, you can lower just the rear 1". I did my girl's daytona 675 and have had no problem's with the bike. She can reach the ground now.
 
Longer arm acts like a cheater and will compress the spring more. 2up is where you'll probably have problems. One down in rear will affect the ride and speed will magnify it. You won't have huge problems with it being lowered just get used to it and know you, your machines, and the roads limitations be safe.
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