Living With the 500 Pound Gorilla

S

straightshooter_la

Registered
The PO decided that Vance and Hines’s research and development department with a budget of $12.50 knew how to make a better set of bolt ons than Suzuki. I do know that Two Brothers baged this SAME pipe for a while. Luckily he included the factory cans when I bought it. I road with the VH cans for about 4 months and tried everything short of a TRE or a Power Commander to fix a really bad flat spot in the power band from idle all the way to 4000 RPM. Sure the bike felt like it had a great top end surge but that’s only because it was falling on its face below that. And it made on off throttle transitions a ##### in traffic. The best way to describe it is that the bike was running rich and loading up at part throttle.

So my question is how many of you aftermarket pipers are REALLY happy with your choice and how many of you are just ignoring the 500 pound gorilla? BE HONEST!
 
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I'm not a troll. I think I'm gonna cry now...You do know that somebody that holds a different point of view is not necessarily a troll right?
Maybe I've gone cynical in my old age of 32 and I do remember the days when factory exhausts where heavy and inefficient. It just seems to me that while heavy the Busa’s factory exhaust works a lot better than these. I’m not the first person I’ve heard grumbling about on slip-ons either. Maybe the factory headers are designed for a specific sympathetic tuning frequency that the Vance and Hines don’t reproduce. Ya yhink?
 
If the stock cans would do what we wanted, there would be no aftermarket. Besides you're too cheap to buy a PC, so you haven't even tried to fix the problem. Go away. You are a troll.
 
Dunno.. i think there is more wrong with your bike than the cans though..

I never installed a PC.. I did remove the pair valve junk,, and I wouldn't give .20 cents for a TRE and have no problems. .. I did a full micron system.. so I bet their is either a problem somewhere.. or I guess it's possible V&H just made a shitty slipon..

even high dollar slip ons don't change performance much one way or the other from what I've seen.. I can't imagine just a slip on could cause the problems your describing.
 
The PO decided that Vance and Hines’s research and development department with a budget of $12.50 knew how to make a better set of bolt ons than Suzuki.[/QUOTE]

Okay, relax for a moment. Your premise that the V&H R&D budget is small-time is flawed. V&H is enormous and Byron Hines (the "H" in V&H) is one of the brightest, most talented innovators in the motorcycle performance world. They don't sell junk. Before you fault the pipes, have a professional Hayabusa tuner check your bike. No, you probably won't find such a pro at the local Suzuki dealership. Several things could be causing the "flat spot" like an improperly adjusted Throttle Position Sensor (TPS) or other little issues that have big effects. If you don't know the complete technical history of the bike, how can you derive such conclusions?

Re-mapping may be part of the solution. Even the factory maps are not necessarily ideal for all stock-engine riding circumstances. Mapping is a major part of TUNING. Tuning, with or without mods, is usually the key to a happy motor. Think about it, do what you need to do...  and try to be happy.  
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OK,look.... The slip ons are just that.Slip ons..No performance gains, just a different look and sound. Most manufactures even say that remapping is not necessary for their slip on cans.Now, its been well documented that the factory headers are the problem with the busa breathing,If youre looking for performance, get the PC3 and have it remapped, the factory map is rich,you can smell it and see it,get a quality full system and a PC3, you wont be disappointed. I never thought my bike had a dead spot when it was stock,even when I added Micron race cans, it ran good.Another board member can attest to this,as he rode my bike in that configuration.I dont have to tell you that speed or performance cost,If youre not willing to spend the money to achieve your desired level of performance, then you my friend have a problem.Sorry I called you a troll.NJ.
 
Ahhhh that's the thing! I'm not cheap. I'm going to a full system and a power commander. Actually I'm going to get the power commander first. The idea behind the post was to goad the some REAL information out into the open. I was lucky I didn’t spend $400 on a pair of slip-ons. I wouldn’t want anyone to make that mistake.

I adjusted the TPS at 1000 rpm. Then I turned the idle speed up to 1250 rpm or so. I balanced the throttle bodies. I Put new sparkplugs in just to see. I can and have dismantled and reassembled more than one 4-cylinder engine and I can tune carbs. This aint my first rodeo. The Busa feels like it’s running rich but that may have more to do with goofy timing than fuel.

The guy who got all stiff on Vance and Hines should really do more homework. Cause either Mr. Hines didn’t design that pipe or he leased it to Two Brothers or the companies are both buying them and retagging. Whatever the bike runs better now with the factory cans.

Maybe a lot of it has to do with individual bike or some people just don’t notice that kind of thing.


And I do see how the first post came out trollish. On the Internet nobody can see you looking into the clamp side of a Vance and Hines slip-on and shaking your head while you wonder why they put the rear baffle in with no taper.
 
BA-ZIIIIING!
haha

never pick a exhaust performance fight with a guy that has more knowledge of the subject than the rest of us COMBINED in his pinky toe..

lesson learned..


BTW.. you didn't hafta "goad" nuttin' from us.. just ask the question and we'll answer.
 
Nice link the Hindle system is on the top of my list.

I'm not arguing design. If you look into these Vance and Hines f_ckwit you'd see there nothing smooth about them. They're full of sharp edges.

Obviously you’ve never looked into them from the flange side.
 
You know the more I think about I'm just don't know why I bother. Here anybody want a set of highly engineered bolt ons from Vance and Hines? If you get here before I cut them into scrap metal they’re yours for $150. Warbaby guaranties he can make um work for you. Of course it may cost you 3 or 4 hundred dollars in power commander and tuning but golly they’ll look great and sound awesome! And you’ll get a hole 1 and a half horsepower on top if you don’t mind loosing 10 everywhere else…

Buy minions BUY
 
uhh.. the link is to his personal website... IE.. he wrote it..

he can get you a damn good deal on the Hindle/BDE system also... well if he didn't tell you to eff off instead of dealing with ya anyways.

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Obviously you’ve never looked into them from the flange side.[/QUOTE]

Wrong... but it's irrelevant.

Warbaby guaranties he can make um work for you.[/QUOTE]

Wrong again. WarBaby made no such claim (although I can--it is called tuning).

I'm not arguing design.[/QUOTE]

It appears that you are "arguing" precisely that--poor muffler design.  

Your comments were amusing and I am now well-sated by your intelligent contributions. Thanks for the entertainment. I think I'll go away now and enjoy conversations with other "straightshooters" who don't fire blanks in their threads.

Happy trails to you...
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