Let's talk about the future of this site....

captain

Dis in my way!
Staff member
Administrator
Moderator
I wanted to get this out in front of you all so that everyone knows where I am at.....

I really want you all to pay special attention to Section 230 that our political leaders are looking at which would include this forum. I want you all to see the position I am in and why your behavior is key to the solution.




I like to think that we have been pretty consistent over the years in how we have managed the site. While we do believe in the freedom of speech in our country we also reserve the right to edit, modify or delete post made my members. We have the ability to remove attachments if they are considered inappropriate using historical standard decency rules.

I recently posted a short example of how we should all be engaging with each other on the site, some rules to live by is maybe a better way to put it.


I would challenge each of you reading this to go back through your post and see if you have gone against any of those general standards of good communication.

I have had countless request from members asking me to ban or delete members because they felt the other person was posting hate speech or untruths, I have in the same day also received request from other people in the same thread wanting me to ban or delete the 1st person because they felt they were stirring up trouble.

I recently added the ability for members to completely ignore single threads or entire forums in an attempt to allow you all to control what you see.

It's really starting to look like even being a group of enthusiast of the Almighty Hayabusa isn't enough to keep our community thriving and willing to discuss topics as grown adults.

I am stuck in the middle and from my perspective this site is a perfect reflection of our country and the challenges in front of it. Everyone wants freedom of speech until it doesn't agree with your agenda.

It's my belief that we as a society have lost the ability to have decent and relative conversations because we always want to be right and will use whatever we can find to use as ammo even if it might not be true or relative.

In the greatest years of this site it thrived not because we had the best features or most attractive look but because we held discussions and relationships to the highest regard. Post from members were hundreds of words that were well thought out and data was used to explain their stance, not to attack the other person as being wrong or less. To argue for your beliefs is important but you have to do it respectfully with the intent to help get your thoughts clearly over to the readers.

I have personally watched as Facebook took complete conversations away and started shorter less detailed post with one line replies. The worst thing FaceBook has done to communication is adding the LIKE button which made putting your thoughts in words even less important. We now see the same trend here as we have become victim to this as well. Even FaceBook's shorter messages aren't fast enough we now use 60 second videos on TIKTOK.

I will not get into the middle of the Section 230 issue, I do not have time to moderate this site all day and night. I do not have the funds to deal with litigation and I will in no way report to the US Government how I moderate. So let me be clear, I will not close out the politics section because those topics will just flow over to other forums, we can at least keep those sections cordoned off.

Even though we have less daily members now than we have ever had I spend more time dealing with daily drama and keeping things running. We barely make financial ends meet and to be perfectly honest I think we are on the closing days of the site.

This site is not what I make it, This site is what YOU MAKE IT. If you don't like politics great don't go into that thread, we have given the option to not see it. If you want to participate in a thread we surely appreciate the interaction and value your input but you need to post respectfully using the general standards of conversation.

If you disagree and can't type something nice then don't post anything at all, why there are so many people that feel they are required to reply to post with their differing opinion and argue about everything is beyond me. Remember it takes at least 2 people to have an argument, are you the other person?

The one thing we have always asked our members to do is treat each other with respect and have thoughtful discussion, this is how we learn about each other and maybe just maybe we learn something new.

You all decide how we proceed!

Cap
 
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A very sobering post Cap...

I am new to discussing any politics as a former long time serving soldier, politics discussions were both avoided and discouraged. It was our mission to serve the people of our country, not the politicians.

Politics bring out the passion in people more than the ownership of a motorcycle or even a sports team.

The fact you've been able to hold this forum together at all is simply amazing especially in the day and age of all the other popular social media platforms taking over everyone's lives.

I will stick around as long as there is a forum.
 
It would be a sad day if you had to shut the site down Cap. I got on this site to learn about the Hayabusa, and in doing so I made some great friendships, which still stand today, all over the country.
 
I think the site is the victim of a perfect storm. There is the political events of the last 4 years and a president who was hell-bent on keeping us in turmoil. Then, there is the lack of things to really talk about on the Busa. I think if a new Busa came out we would all post on that and the political section would be forgotten.

Still, I get your point. Hopefully, the election being over will lessen the focus on politics.
 
hi cap,
what i experianced peronally here in germany

years ago i had a (german) hayabusa forum as well
(and i was the one and only admin)

after a while (on request) i opened a special part called politics like here

and what should i say - around one year later a very big stress started there
that i came to my personal border (in mind)
and i had no other chance to get the peace back into my forum but to close that politcs part.

that way i personally found out that politics never would fit into a motorcycle / technical forum.

my conclusion is:
the subject of politics must generally be clearly excluded in the terms of use - the subject only brings deep deep discord and sometimes even hatred into the forum.
the exclusion / prohibition of politics in my forum was then also based on the following rules :
first violation - warning and deletion of the post
second violation - ban from forum for 90 days
third violation - final exclusion from the forum

and - with all i stand for and are -
yes !
the freedom of speech and thought in connection with unconditional tolerance is the greatest good we have and that must be defended.
i fully agree with you - anything else would come close to a dictatorship.

but unproven / unprovable / untenable claims (lies) are made or are constantly repeated, which could then at least confuse a lot of people,
a limit must be reached and the spreader of postings of this type must be relegated to its place and should this warning not help, the person must ultimately even be banned from a forum.

best regards
i wish you a happy hand with the forum
good luck
from across the pond
 
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hi cap,
what i experianced peronally here in germany

years ago i had a (german) hayabusa forum as well
(and i was the one and only admin)

after a while (on request) i opened a special part called politics like here

and what should i say - around one year later a very big stress started there
that i came to my personal border (in mind)
and i had no other chance to get the peace back into my forum but to close that politcs part.

that way i personally found out that politics never would fit into a motorcycle / technical forum.

my conclusion is:
the subject of politics must generally be clearly excluded in the terms of use - the subject only brings deep deep discord and sometimes even hatred into the forum.
the exclusion / prohibition of politics in my forum was then also based on the following rules :
first violation - warning and deletion of the post
second violation - ban from forum for 90 days
third violation - final exclusion from the forum

and - with all i stand for and are -
yes !
the freedom of speech and thought in connection with unconditional tolerance is the greatest good we have and that must be defended.
i fully agree with you - anything else would come close to a dictatorship.

but unproven / unprovable / untenable claims (lies) are made or are constantly repeated, which could then at least confuse a lot of people,
a limit must be reached and the spreader of postings of this type must be relegated to its place and should this warning not help, the person must ultimately even be banned from a forum.

best regards
i wish you a happy hand with the forum
good luck
from across the pond

Appreciate the insight on your experiences and how you dealt with these types of issues too. We have in the past turned politics off for a time to let things cool off but what will typically occur is the spillover and cheap shots in other threads.

I am personally just to the point that I should not have to be moderating the people that are here on a daily basis. I do not have the time to read every thread, get input, calm everyone down and try to mediate the issues. There is no hiding that volumes on site have declined over the years for numerous reasons ( other social media outlets, members moving to other bikes, age of the busa ).

The very rich history and content of the site is what makes the oRg what it is and separates us from a facebook group or even other newer forums. To keeps the ridiculous amount of data on the site there is a cost that is required to fund the platform that we run on.

Because of the need to have discussions in a discussion forum we need to go where the people are talking and having interactions. I am not independently wealthy, I didn't receive a message from God to open a message forum nor do we get government funding. This site is essentially funded by advertising that we have added that seamlessly runs for each member. If there is no conversation there is no advertising, if there is no advertising there is no funding, if there is no funding there is no site.

If I remove the politics section then we without question remove advertising which at this point there is not an abundance of other discussions going on.

So we are back to everyone just playing nice together, be willing to lay down the fight for the greater cause and understanding that your not going to change anyone's mind by arguing on the Internet.

The ball is in the court of the members.

cap
 
A very sobering post Cap...

I am new to discussing any politics as a former long time serving soldier, politics discussions were both avoided and discouraged. It was our mission to serve the people of our country, not the politicians.

Politics bring out the passion in people more than the ownership of a motorcycle or even a sports team.

The fact you've been able to hold this forum together at all is simply amazing especially in the day and age of all the other popular social media platforms taking over everyone's lives.

I will stick around as long as there is a forum.

Passion drives our country so more conversation will bring better understanding. The key is how you communicate your thoughts and ideals to others.

If the goal is greater good of understanding, resolution and to seek truth you wouldn't typically say " You are an idiot " for what you believe. That attitude stifles conversation and the other person naturally will reply in like fashion or just shut down. Either way how a person behaves will speak volumes to intent.

I have had some tough conversations with some friends and foe's in my lifetime and when I was seeking truth I never branded them with a name, never stereo-typed them or told them their opinions were worthless.

It is okay to disagree, heck I disagree with family and friends on a myriad of issues but we aren't going to get into a name calling contest and go to blows over a topic, that defeats the purpose of the friendship all together right.

Sometimes you have to just click on by a comment because you know its either

A.) Troll trying to pull you in
B.) Something someone is looking for a fight
C.) Nothing you can say will be received well

Its okay there is not requirement that a person comments on every thread and we don't have any quotas here to stay a member.

I lay down my freedom of speech all the time because sometimes my opinion just doesn't matter...

Thank you for your service by the way,

Cap
 
hi cap
thx for your long response to mine - very honorable to me as a foreigner !

but i guess your former locking the politic-sektion is necessary today again to get back the deep sense of this forum.
and i don´t think that the number of posters would drop a lot - 1 only i suppose.
all the others are posters i know since i´m here so your fear to loose some "income" seems to me negligible.
and what is more important in the end?
hundreds of posts in a single thread,
which alone lead to
that people are pissed off and may turn their back on the forum precisely because of that, which could lead to the forum's extinction, or the one or other dollar that the forum earns less?

as you said
yes the ball is in the court of the members - yes -
but said in soccer language the goalkeeper (the admin here) is just that important.

so even we all as honorable users are never able to stop a troll
no matter what ever we would write.

as sandow already wrote above - ban the politics
i add - ... for the next 6 months or so
then - philosophically - the rain of time should have put out the current hellish bushfire
at least I hope so.
 
Hi Cap , I've been a member here going back to the very early days , made a lot of great friends , sadly most are gone now , left for a few years but returned . I still think a motorcycle forum is no place for politics , it's too inflamatory . Everyone is right in their opinion and no one is wrong , what's worse is each trying to supress the other to their views. Over her in ''sunny'' Ireland it's not allowed for the above reason . But ,yes I do understand your position , caught between a rock and a hard place.
We don't have your bill of rights or the 1st ammendment so I'm not too well versed in that respect but I see people use it as a weapon , and it's sometimes abused .
I tried reading your attachments but the top of my head blew clean off , so I had to rush to the pie shop for comfort and solace .So many big words , even bigger than sausages and marmalade .. Sry , I ramble ..

Quick question , who are the active mods currently , I for one have no idea , maybe they should help you police the site and help keep it in order , not in a heavy handed way , but just be more active maybe ..

Anyways , off to work for another night shift .. Nothing but love for y'all

PS , I have not re read the above as it's too boring and probable just shyte , but it sounded good as I typed it .. Hope you are all keeping well and safe ..Nothing but love for y'all ...

Jules
 
It seems 3 issues are raised in this thread:
  1. Solvency of the Forum
  2. Policing of the Forum
  3. Voice and Tone of the Forum
I am too new of a member to address #'s 2 or 3, but they become irrelevant if Issue #1 is not addressed.
I am willing to cover the deficit operating costs of this forum for a 12-month period, and have faith that, once Issue #1 is no longer an issue, the members of this forum will collectively develop and implement a policy of procedures to resolve the other 2 issues.

Makes me sound like a Communist. I am not a Communist, I just love this site with all my heart and am committed to do what it takes to see this forum through this rough stretch of road.

The Cap is invited to PM me if money is a real and present issue.
 
I've been on this site for 19 years now. I haven't had a bike since 2006 and I don't post very much anymore however I still check in here every day. I have never once been worried about when or where I am when I log in, never have I worried who was around or looking over my shoulder. This site has always been a family orientated place to visit. I've made a lot of friends, traveled around the country to ride with them or just hang out for the weekend. I would like to believe that everyone else feels the same way and that is the way that you have been running the board is the only way we would like it to continue. If that means editing post or removing them all together then do so. The members here know how things run and report problem post. I think as a whole we understand the basis of this site and would have no problem keeping it clean and free of politics.
People come here for the love of the Busa and the friends they have made while here. For you to have kept this site running so smoothly for over 20 years speaks volumes about you and your beliefs. Thank you for being you and providing us a second home. Keep it the way it's been and people will continue to come and visit. The lack of BS is what keeps us around.
 
I find we get as excited whether we are discussing tires, chains or politics...sometimes there is a little boisterous noise but nothing too dramatic.

Rubb used to talk about people getting death threats and threats of people going to their home to thump them....I haven't seen anything even close to that here these days....
 
I'm staying away from the politics section as much as I can. We are all motorcycle enthusiasts so lets keep this forum going. If you need us to pitch in some cash for hosting I will be willing to pitch in. I have been a Hayabusa fan since I was 7 years old and finally purchased one in my 30s. This IS the best motorcycle HANDS DOWN. The group of people here (politics aside) are amazing!
 
If there's a discussion about a topic where I have a strong opinion, you bet I want to express my opinion and even more so if it's in opposition. Why sit back quietly and let others steer the ship? They started a conversation in public, why would they expect their opinion wouldn't be challenged? As I see it social media is a place to exchange ideas just like you would face to face. Who believes everything they hear in a conversation face to face? Are we all going to become little news agencies making sure our opinions are only based on facts? Where do you go for facts? Do the news outlets provide facts? You can't even trust all news outlets let alone some guy on a message board. There is no absolute truth, you have to use whatever common sense you possess to determine what is (probably) truth. It's up to every individual to discover what they think is the truth but it's still never more than their opinion. No one ever knows for certain what is true and what is false and I don't think they ever did. Penalizing people for expressing their opinion is tyrannical. It's not far from penalizing people for reporting facts. Who will decide who gets penalized? How do we know that person is smarter than everyone they deem worthy of being penalized?

What about opinions that are based on morals and not on facts? Are you allowed to express those opinions? "Abortion as a method of birth control is wrong because it destroys human life or it destroys something that would have become human life." Will I get sued for saying that? I have no facts but it's my opinion. Am I allowed to have an opinion about who is President of our country and express that opinion on the internet? I might be wrong. Someone may take it as fact and be misinformed.

As for this forum, we can't personally go back and edit any misinformation even if we did discover it after writing it. I know I've written incorrect information in a tutorial or two. The best I can do is post the correction later in the thread unless I want to bug Cap to edit my post. Hopefully anyone reading my tutorials realizes I'm just a guy on the internet. I make mistakes and I might have opinions that are based on information that is wrong too. Common sense again, this is some guy on the internet. Proceed with caution.

If exchanging ideas/arguing about current events is such a problem here, disallow it. Give people who discuss anything other than motorcycles a friendly warning. If they can't stick to bikes, suspend them or ban them. All of us who visit here regularly can respond to a political comment with such a warning. I wouldn't want to see the bike information go away because we tend to fight about politics.

The Hayabusa isn't a political matter. As for this section 230......that's a political matter so I won't go into it further than I already did. Glad I heard about it here though.
 
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...and I would be happy to become a paying member too. This is the best place to get bike information. I'd be lost without it. Give a free trial and then charge a membership fee. That would be better than just hanging it up.
 
...and I would be happy to become a paying member too. This is the best place to get bike information. I'd be lost without it. Give a free trial and then charge a membership fee. That would be better than just hanging it up.
There are motorcycle forums that offer a basic free membership with the option for a premium membership. The V-Strom forum I frequent asks $20/yr to be a premium member.

For me, it's like, would you pay $20 to have access to an evolving, up-to-the-minute knowledgebase complete with the stories (and splendid illustrations) that go along with the knowledge? Duh

Just between me and the other 3 or 4 people reading this post, I'd pay triple that amount for a subscript to Hayabusa.oRg. For mechanical/mod reasons only. Otherwise, how easy would it be to pick the brain of somebody like Greg at Boosted or Rob at BCP??

I'm okay with riders being whatever they want to be - as long as they take proper care of their bike. On the other hand, I would wonder why someone who's never owned or worked on a bike would choose this forum to post comments on anything other than motorcycles.
 
There are motorcycle forums that offer a basic free membership with the option for a premium membership. The V-Strom forum I frequent asks $20/yr to be a premium member.

For me, it's like, would you pay $20 to have access to an evolving, up-to-the-minute knowledgebase complete with the stories (and splendid illustrations) that go along with the knowledge? Duh

Just between me and the other 3 or 4 people reading this post, I'd pay triple that amount for a subscript to Hayabusa.oRg. For mechanical/mod reasons only. Otherwise, how easy would it be to pick the brain of somebody like Greg at Boosted or Rob at BCP??

I'm okay with riders being whatever they want to be - as long as they take proper care of their bike. On the other hand, I would wonder why someone who's never owned or worked on a bike would choose this forum to post comments on anything other than motorcycles.
They have that on the German Hayabusa forum. A section for a paid membership...no fixed rate but everyone who donates a amount annually gets access to the "good stuff".
 
They have that on the German Hayabusa forum. A section for a paid membership...no fixed rate but everyone who donates a amount annually gets access to the "good stuff".
I honestly think if that were to happen on this site, membership would drop off to only the "elitist" who pay. New members who have questions will go elsewhere and the same people will be in the "special" portion of the site until they get bored and then the site dies off.

The Hayabusa platform is old, it's not attracting as many new riders, IF another rendition of the Hayabusa is born we MIGHT have a chance to keep this thread going.

Sadly, this is the exact reason many forums are inactive, the platform either aged out or people went to other social media platforms.
 
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