K9 Stock brakes

[jellyrug]

Just curious, I often hear complaints about stock brakes, and how much they improve with mods.

I have never had reason to complain about mine, they do what they are supposed to.

So what are the complaints about?

Fading after numerous high speed stops?

Too much force needed on the back or front lever?

Perception of feel?

 

[GAmedic]

My only complaint is they dont say Brembo....

....but that's only a personal desire.

My brakes work just fine, although they could be better with braided lines and a new master cylinder.

 

[Bumblebee]

I figure under normal everyday commuting or light riding the stock brakes work fine. It's when you ride the bike hard (er) the brakes suffer from fade and less lever feedback as a result.

Brembo calipers are stronger but it's the master cylinder and braided lines which make the difference...it's probably only Suzuki trying to save money by not putting better master cylinders and brake lines on their previous flag ship bike-that's something I don't get.

I will ask those who own ZX14Rs or our resident H2 owner-do these bikes have braided lines? I know they have better master cylinders.

 

[Tached1300]

I think it’s relative to the type of riding and the type of rider you are really. As well as what you are comparing them to in terms of your frame of reference of bikes previously ridden.

I had an 09 Busa and now have a 15 and I feel a big difference between the two brakes for sure, the 15 is much better. Of course both can be improved upon with pads, braided lines, master cylinder upgrade etc

 

[fallenarch]

Just curious, I often hear complaints about stock brakes, and how much they improve with mods.

I have never had reason to complain about mine, they do what they are supposed to.

So what are the complaints about?

Fading after numerous high speed stops?

Too much force needed on the back or front lever?

Perception of feel?

Yes, those are a few of the issues. "Perception of feel" sort of tells the story of why you ask this question. Feel is an objective, if difficult to quantify quality. It's not in the eye of the beholder at all. If you ride the bike in a way that is not demanding yes, the stock brakes work. Push the bike a little and no, they don't.

 

[jellyrug]

Thanks for the feedback.

I guess I have to admit, I do baby my Busa. It use to sit on stands most of the time, but I have now made it a point to try and do a breakfast run on very remote roads out in the country at least once a week.

There are a few places where I do push it past maximum that can be handled in 4th gear. At those speeds things come at one pretty fast and when needed the brakes have been just fine. I don’t push it in the twisties though where acceleration and deceleration is a factor.

I guess the proof of babying this bike is my chain. On the way to 12,000 miles and it is still on factory adjustment. But then again, my philosophy on O-ring chain maintenance differs from most. ( Remove all external lube when new and run it dry until it needs replacement)

 

[Pjpcardoso]

I think it’s relative to the type of riding and the type of rider you are really. As well as what you are comparing them to in terms of your frame of reference of bikes previously ridden.

I had an 09 Busa and now have a 15 and I feel a big difference between the two brakes for sure, the 15 is much better. Of course both can be improved upon with pads, braided lines, master cylinder upgrade etc

You have "15"???
Can you show pictures?
What mark and model?

 

[busabobh]

Thanks for the feedback.

I guess I have to admit, I do baby my Busa. It use to sit on stands most of the time, but I have now made it a point to try and do a breakfast run on very remote roads out in the country at least once a week.

There are a few places where I do push it past maximum that can be handled in 4th gear. At those speeds things come at one pretty fast and when needed the brakes have been just fine. I don’t push it in the twisties though where acceleration and deceleration is a factor.

I guess the proof of babying this bike is my chain. On the way to 12,000 miles and it is still on factory adjustment. But then again, my philosophy on O-ring chain maintenance differs from most. ( Remove all external lube when new and run it dry until it needs replacement)

Don’t know about the brakes , but never heard of this kind of chain maintenance.

 

[fallenarch]

Ask yourself these:

1. Can you feel precisely where your bike begins to react when you pull the lever? Is this action smooth, precise and progressive?
2. Can you hold the brakes at that precise point? How big is the area between when the brakes start slowing you down and full lock? Do the brakes get progressively stronger of do they feel like a switch?
3. Can you completely stop the bike in a panic with a single finger, 2 at the most?
4. Does your lever come back to the same point even after several aggressive stops? Does it loose feel?

Maybe you don't need this level of braking performance, but it is very confidence inspiring. Drive an old car and when you push the brakes you have to push the pedal until the brakes "take-up". It should not feel like a sponge is between the pedal and your foot, it should be smooth, progressive resistance on your foot. When you drive fast, you can account mentally for the spongy zone, but that lack of feeling lowers your feeling of confidence. OEM Busa brakes may not be this bad but they are relatively sloppy.

Also braking is 40% braking system and 60% suspension. The best brakes are wasted on poorly setup suspension.

 

[Twobrothersbusa]

My07 GSXR 1000 had over 10K on the factory chain adjustment. I set it at around 2K miles and never touched it giving it nothing but track duty for service. The factory chain is bullet proof for thousands of miles. Keep it lubed and it will serve you well.

 

[jellyrug]

My07 GSXR 1000 had over 10K on the factory chain adjustment. I set it at around 2K miles and never touched it giving it nothing but track duty for service. The factory chain is bullet proof for thousands of miles. Keep it lubed and it will serve you well.

Am I the only one here who never lubes an O-Ring chain?

A chain which runs with external lubricant needs to be enclosed preventing any contamination. Example your timing chain.

Grinding paste is made from grease and carborundum.

Carborundum is finely ground stone.

So it follows if you lube an o-ring chain pretty much the same stuff (oil or grease with road dust = carborundum) sticks to the chain and you have grinding paste shaping your sprocket teeth into a new profile, including a new profile on the roller links. The result is shorter chain life.

Anyway, if my chain at 12,000 miles still have the original factory adjustment, it sure must mean something.

BTW, I have been a competitive cyclist for a long time and we get around 3,000 miles on a thin non O-Ring chain. For me that means at minimum four chains a year. I have tried every trick in the book with those chains over the years, and the fastest way to wear it out is DuPont dry lubricant. It develops a squeak within a couple of hundred miles and the chain wears out in no time.

 

[Bumblebee]

Am I the only one here who never lubes an O-Ring chain?

A chain which runs with external lubricant needs to be enclosed preventing any contamination. Example your timing chain.

Grinding paste is made from grease and carborundum.

Carborundum is finely ground stone.

So it follows if you lube an o-ring chain pretty much the same stuff (oil or grease with road dust = carborundum) sticks to the chain and you have grinding paste shaping your sprocket teeth into a new profile, including a new profile on the roller links. The result is shorter chain life.

Anyway, if my chain at 12,000 miles still have the original factory adjustment, it sure must mean something.

BTW, I have been a competitive cyclist for a long time and we get around 3,000 miles on a thin non O-Ring chain. For me that means at minimum four chains a year. I have tried every trick in the book with those chains over the years, and the fastest way to wear it out is DuPont dry lubricant. It develops a squeak within a couple of hundred miles and the chain wears out in no time.

What you say is interesting....I guess I have always lubed a motorcycle chain and to not would be against all I have read and taught...

Is your chain loud? I find if my chain starts to get dry, it gets loud and immediately quiets down when I lube it...

 

[jellyrug]

What you say is interesting....I guess I have always lubed a motorcycle chain and to not would be against all I have read and taught...

Is your chain loud? I find if my chain starts to get dry, it gets loud and immediately quiets down when I lube it...

On the Busa I really don’t know, can’t hear it through the helmet. I do the same on my dirt bike, riding with a lubricant wet chain in the dirt is a recipe for disaster.

On my cycles, yes one can hear when the chain gets dry. Here one unfortunately don’t have an option, as there are no o-rings to retain lube in between the pins and bushings. I do 1,500 miles on a new chain which comes with lubricant. Then I remove the chain, clean it in an ultrasonic bath, let it lie in 90 gear oil overnight, then dry it as best I can. After another 1.000 miles or so it is thrown away. The problem with these is one has to keep the stretch in spec, otherwise the rear cassette sprockets wear out. A Campagnolo rear cassette is around $500, chain runs around $60.