Just because the crash was not your fault

[Mr Bogus]

Have had this conversation with many a rider over the years and I am a believer myself..

Just because the crash you were in was NOT your fault, does not mean you could not have avoided it..

Situational awareness in this sport is tantamount to living a long productive life.. "It was not my fault" equals squat when tucked under a car..

Driving a car or truck insulates us from the daily hazards we face on a motorcycle and often we ignore much of what is going on around us..

This is not to say that EVERY bike crash is avoidable but I am going on the record as saying I bet 99% of all bike crashes are avoidable..

The guy rear ended me, he ran a light, he changed lanes into me... are all common "Not my fault" things but with a good dose of "what is going on around me" awareness, many if not most could be avoided..

I have talked with a lot of bike crash guys and almost without fail there was an "out" if they had been a few seconds further into the thought process..

"Yea passing that guy right there was risky but I did not think the other guy was going to pull out" Well, that moment of indiscretion ends up being a life changing event..

Take a second and keep in mind, that even if it was his fault? who really pays the price... (and I am tired of funerals)

 

[Jayhawk]

It's called being 'dead right'.

 

[skydivr]

Better yet, Sometimes I teach forklift safety class at work; There is always a question asked about "Who has the right of way?" The book solution is that the pedestrian has the right of way, but that's BS; the right of way "belongs to whomever has the LEAST TO LOSE"....same with motorcycles....

 

[Dino]

I agree with you 100%.

While riding you need to continuously assess what is going on around you and anticipating that the other drivers do not see you and plan accordingly. This is why we teach about having a buffer zone around you to give you room to maneuver.

 

[Greenbean]

Very well said,

I still remember the montra


SIPDE...

Scan
Identify
Predict
Decide
Execute,

Doesn't mean I am immune, just glad I use it all the time. Even riding in a car with friends, which has been a lot here lately, and while doing 8000 miles on a scooter in the past 9 months.

 

[Dino]

Very well said,

I still remember the montra


SIPDE...

Scan
Identify
Predict
Decide
Execute,

Doesn't mean I am immune, just glad I use it all the time. Even riding in a car with friends, which has been a lot here lately, and while doing 8000 miles on a scooter in the past 9 months.

Time to take a refreser course bro. Now we teach SEE (Search Evaluate Execute), but SIPDE is still good to know.

 

[Greenbean]

Time to take a refreser course bro. Now we teach SEE (Search Evaluate Execute), but SIPDE is still good to know.

Guess it shows how long I have ridden, lol. and I thought I was still young at 34.

I'll try and re-learn the SEE method.

I always thought SIPDE seemed a tad long for all events on the road, lol...

Thanks Dino.

 

[bazooki]

Not to take this off on a tangent but as a road/mtn/downhill cyclist I am always rubbed the wrong way when I hear car drivers beotching about bicyclists on the roadway! The bottom line is that in ANY confrontation between a cyclist and a car the cyclist is ALWAYS the loser. The cyclist goes to the ER or the MORGUE and the car driver goes home/coffee shop or at worst to the body shop to get that nasty dent or scratch on their car estimated. It's not an equal playing field out there so don't pretend that it is.

On the same note I am always pissed off when I see riders tailgating cars. Use your freakin head man! If that car slams the brakes you are either going to be part of the trunk or go through/over the rear window! Is that what you want?

 

[RACER_X]

Have had this conversation with many a rider over the years and I am a believer myself..

Just because the crash you were in was NOT your fault, does not mean you could not have avoided it..

Situational awareness in this sport is tantamount to living a long productive life.. "It was not my fault" equals squat when tucked under a car..

Driving a car or truck insulates us from the daily hazards we face on a motorcycle and often we ignore much of what is going on around us..

This is not to say that EVERY bike crash is avoidable but I am going on the record as saying I bet 99% of all bike crashes are avoidable..

The guy rear ended me, he ran a light, he changed lanes into me... are all common "Not my fault" things but with a good dose of "what is going on around me" awareness, many if not most could be avoided..

I have talked with a lot of bike crash guys and almost without fail there was an "out" if they had been a few seconds further into the thought process..

"Yea passing that guy right there was risky but I did not think the other guy was going to pull out" Well, that moment of indiscretion ends up being a life changing event..

Take a second and keep in mind, that even if it was his fault? who really pays the price... (and I am tired of funerals)

ya know, i'm on alot of bike forums for many yrs, and i've always said that, and it's crazy how many people take offense to it.........i couldn't be MY delivery.........

learn from each and every incident, cuz it'll happen again.

some people learn from example, others are the example.

 

[shadetree57]

I'm constantly watching out for the other guy. Sometimes when in the truck riding with my wife she sees a guy about to pull out and I say, Better watch that guy. Her answer is, It;ll be his fault. Yea, thats right but whose gonna be without a ride while the truck is being fixed? Or end up bein in the hospital. All in all what I'm sayin is Bogus, you are exactly right and I do practice what you preach. It only takes one bad judgement and your gone.A few more seconds of evaluating the situation may save your life. Bogus.

 

[NickSully]

I agree completely. That whole "it won't be my fault" reasoning never made any sense to me what so ever. If you can avoid an accident why wouldn't you?

 

[Takeuon]

I agree whole heartedly about what you wrote re: "what is going on around me" awareness.

However there are entirely too many scenarios that are indeed out of our control. I think your 99% of all crashes being avoidable is high. Less we all ride 10 under the speed limit in the right lane and have a force field that extends 20 yards out our rear when at a stop light. But that is not realistic. The "woulda", "coulda", "shoulda" thought process is not applicable in all negative outcomes.

And again you did say "This is not to say that EVERY bike crash is avoidable" and your spot on w/ the point "often we ignore much of what is going on around us". I've found myself being to complacent while riding many a time.

So I think this is a great post and I agree with your general points. I'm just chiming in w/ my opinion.

 

[zukracer]

Better yet, Sometimes I teach forklift safety class at work; There is always a question asked about "Who has the right of way?" The book solution is that the pedestrian has the right of way, but that's BS; the right of way "belongs to whomever has the LEAST TO LOSE"....same with motorcycles....

Kinda goes to the size matters policy. Unfortunately this policy seems to be in effect in most major cities when on the highways or dealing with traffic. I cant tell you how many times I've seen HUGE trucks just bully their way into another lane up here in NYC just because they can. They figure you'll just let them over or end up in a wreck....the sad part is this can be happening 6-10 cars ahead of you and you still end up in a pile up cuz the bullied car slams on brakes.

I agree that everyone should be more aware when riding but you should also be aware in every day life. Pay more attention to your surroundings, know what is going on around you, think through the possible next moves someone might make. In a car or on the bike, check your mirrors often, look for holes in lanes that the speeding asshat behind you will no doubt take or force someone into. When walking look around/behind you, heck check out reflections if you dont want to turn around. Regardless of fault of any incident, there is no one looking out for you but you.

 

[Dino]

I agree whole heartedly about what you wrote re: "what is going on around me" awareness.

However there are entirely too many scenarios that are indeed out of our control. I think your 99% of all crashes being avoidable is high. Less we all ride 10 under the speed limit in the right lane and have a force field that extends 20 yards out our rear when at a stop light. But that is not realistic. The "woulda", "coulda", "shoulda" thought process is not applicable in all negative outcomes.

And again you did say "This is not to say that EVERY bike crash is avoidable" and your spot on w/ the point "often we ignore much of what is going on around us". I've found myself being to complacent while riding many a time.

So I think this is a great post and I agree with your general points. I'm just chiming in w/ my opinion.

The point is there really are not that many scenarios that are out of our control....but there is not way to tell because no one keeps track of accidents that were avoided.

 

[Rayabusa0818]

Good post Randy. Those that choose to ignore these words of advice will regret it

Grip it and rip it

 

[BA BUSA]

You play you pay...

Hopefully it does not cost you your life...or anyone elses life. You always need a 'out' a safe
path if someone does the unexpected. Don't ride next to vehicles, or in blind spots...position
yourself so you can see the driver in "their" mirrors...then if they do check their mirrors, they
might see you.

Take it to the track if you really want some fun and to see what your bike can do

 

[mvanlone]

I TOTALLY disagree with you on EVERY point. How can rearends be your fault? How can someone that is drunk at 12:00 at night driving a car WITHOUT lights on running the red light than hitting a car and than hitting you can be avoided?

I have been rearended 2x, I have had 2 weeks ago been hit by a drunk driver that ran a red light that did not even have head lights on. Your argument !!!! I am a human being and I don't have spider man's sense to see through cars, through the dark, and through buildings? Your topic hit a nerve....maybe until you get hit in these scenarios you will change your mind. Since in the drunk driver scenario I was following someone that has more experience than I (20 years of experience) and a car...all of us going through a green light at 35 MPH......how can we all avoid this crash....lol.......dude your logic makes me laugh. It is like you going up in the airplane and someone hands you a bogus parachute and you jump out and when you pull the string no chute......we will say later...you could had avoided this....lol......get real......

 

[RACER_X]

ex:

new rider
VFR 800
1st bike
NO MSF

In my recent accident, I feel that it was practically un-avoidable. A**hole ran the left turn arrow. If I had cut my speed in half (40 to 20) just because I thought he might run the light, I would have been able to avoid it. In that case what risk do I run getting rear ended for drastically slowing at a green light? I came out of the situation ok because I swerved hard to the right and put the bike down. I missed the car, bike didnt.

Speed limit was 35, yes I feel like it was likely I would have been rear ended being as the car had a hard time stopping to avoid me at least 60 feet past the intersection. I was travelin in the far left lane & ended up in the far right lane (of 3). Next time I think I would do the same thing. By the way I need to take msf for the no M endorsement ticket I got that day. Where should I go Racer?

 

[RACER_X]

I TOTALLY disagree with you on EVERY point. How can rearends be your fault? How can someone that is drunk at 12:00 at night driving a car WITHOUT lights on running the red light than hitting a car and than hitting you can be avoided?

I have been rearended 2x, I have had 2 weeks ago been hit by a drunk driver that ran a red light that did not even have head lights on. Your argument !!!! I am a human being and I don't have spider man's sense to see through cars, through the dark, and through buildings? Your topic hit a nerve....maybe until you get hit in these scenarios you will change your mind.

he didn't say the rear-ending was your fault, but what could you do to prevent it?

btw, didn't your parents tell you : only bad things happen after midnight........oh how so true that statement is.......

 

[mvanlone]

I apologize if I misread your post.....someone was stating that you weren't talking about rearends.....