Isnt it funny Suzuki VS Kawasaki

zx-12 vs hayabusa. hmmmm. could be fun. anyway, i read in a british bike magazine today that kawasaki still has not determined wether they will intro the 12 as competition for the r-1 or the hayabusa. meaning:ultra light flickable great handling incredible power = r-1 competition. or somewhat heavier, less flickable while still great handling, awesome top speed numbers = hayabusa competetion. they are actually leaning towards the r-1 mainly because it is an incredibly flickable bike with mega power and ultra light weight. also, it would require more aerodynamic (thus less attractive if by most aerodynamic standards) body work to be revised before launch. either way, i think we can all agree (and i'm a suzuki man myself) that it will be incredible whichever way they do it. as for the "engine problems" that have been mentioned as of late, i have almost 1300 miles on my 1300 (sounds good don't it) and have had no problems whatsoever. runs like a scalded dog and handles soooo much better than either i expected, or others are willing to believe. anyhooo, all be safe, enjoy your rides, don't sweat the small stuff, and remember, all bikes do something great and somethings less great, focus on the great stuff, (other's will surely focus on the not so great stuff for you) and don't worry about what other's think. hell, it won't be long before either the government stops this madness, or each year as in the past, someone will continue to up the ante until the government DOES rear it's nasty head up and stop it. until then, WOOOO HOOOOOOO heck with them. catch me baby.
mike
 
Hmmmmmm, ZX-12 vs. Hayabusa. Sounds just like last years ZX-9R vs. R1 debates and some of ours got really nasty.

Just one thought........ The ZX-12 supposedly was ready to be introduced as a 1999 model but was held back because it couldn't compete with the Hayabusa. Kawasaki headed back to the engine drawing board and almost certainly will come to the table in 2000 with respectable hp. My question about the ZX-12 is this: The redesigned engine will make more power, do you think they had the time to beef up the clutch, transmission, etc., etc., etc. ? My guess is NO. Kawasaki has a bad habit of reusing transmissions and clutchs from lower model bikes on it's bigger bikes. For example, the ZX-6 clutch(+ 1 plate) in the ZX-9 which has proven marginal. ZX-12 reliability should prove to be an interesting thing to watch.
 
<<<ZX-12 reliability should prove to be an
interesting thing to watch.>>>

From some of the posts I've seen, _Hayabusa_ reliability may be a source of legitimate concern. Blown rod bearings, transmissions seizing . . . it's only been a _month_ since these bad boys started shipping.

So far so good for mine (I'm keeping my fingers crossed and my oil level topped off).
 
Sure the new ZX-12 will be fast, but it looks to me that once again the Kawasaki will be just like the always, when you start pushing it in the twisties the suspension will be too soft too handle it well. Basically, Kawasaki's aim at the Sport- Touring Market with touring more in mind than sport and they all have been like that even the ZX-9 to a certain extent. They run real well at 7/10th pace in the twisties but when you start to get real serious they do not hold up to the superior sport suspension like on the BUSA.

The more things change the more they seem to stay the same

Phil
 
I don't see how Kawasaki could possibly aim the ZX-12 at the R1 market. Kawasaki's current hype on the ZX-12 (June 99 Cycle World) claims a dry weight of 441 lbs which would hardly be "flickable". That's 51 lbs. heavier than the R1. The ZX-12 will have a shorter wheelbase than the Hayabusa and weight less therefore making it more wheelie-prone and less attractive as a dragbike. It looks like a one purpose bike only......top speed.

The Hayabusa put a real kink in Kawasaki's marketing stategy. Now they've got a bike struggling for an identity somewhere between the R1/ZX-9 and the Hayabusa. Their marketing department is certainly working overtime hyping it up just as the Hayabusa is hitting all the magazines. Don't you find it kind of funny that all the magazines now have articles on the ZX-12 in the same issue as the Hayabusa test?

Whatever Kawi decides to do with it, I'm sure glad to see Suzuki and Kawasaki raising the performace stakes in the sportbike market. Last year it was the R1, this year the Hayabusa, next year the ZX-12. I can only imagine what we'll be riding in 2005! Now, if we can just keep the government and insureance companies from screwing it up............
 
I don't agree with the original post that Suzuki couldn't compete in the 1100 market. The GSXR1100 has dominated 1100 supersport for as long as I can remember and still does. It has also enjoyed successes in endurance racing and Formula USA and Formula Extreme, where the ZX11 hasn't even showed.

What's more, the GSXR1100 remains a force in drag racing and on the track in many classes, while the Kawasaki ZX11 only performs better for touring, straightline speed, and is competetive in drags.

The GSXR1100 has also been around a lot longer and defined the nutter-bike class with only the GSXR750 preceding it in that capacity.

By all rights the lack of development on the GSXR1100 over the last couple of years should indicate the idea that the GSX1300R is it's worthy successor. Now the Suzuki is quicker, faster, and better in every respect.
 
It's amazing what an introduction of a new motorcycle does when it eliminates bragging rights of past years' best. I enjoy watching all the has-beens get either subjective and say the 1300 is ugly or turn into soothsayers and say next year's this or that is gunna kick its butt. I know that someday the 1300 won't be king in a bunch of statistics, but it's a blast buying and owning a bike that "raises the bar" so much more than other new bikes have in the past.
 
Funny, I thought the CBR900RR OWNED the Formula Extreme. How is it that the GSXR1100 is successful there? Even Chuck Graves went to the R1 - better bike.

Still haven't run into a 1300 here in Houston, TX at the dragstrip. I hear one ran 10.1@138mph last week.
 
I spoke of the 1100 in FE with the past tense and in comparison to the Kawasaki -- not the present day or against R1's and CBR's. Chuck Graves was just one of the guys who had success on the GSXR1100. Now that the GSX1300R has succeeded the 1100, it remains to be seen how it will fair in FE. It will take some development, but I can only imagine that it will see some success as early as next season.
 
I don't know where you guys get your ideas from claiming the ZX-12 won't be heavy enough. Have you guys actually been down to the track lately. The 8 second dragbikes are only weighing in at just under 400 lbs and I'll bet they don't have any troubles breaking 200. Thats an R1 comparison almost and if the ZX-9 runs a 9.99 out of the box then add a little better aerodynamics, a little more weight and a lot more horsepower. I not saying its going to break the 200 mph barrier stock but lets use a little common sense hear.
 
Cummon Guys, this is getting funny. IF, that is IF the supposed ZX-12 is better than the Abuser, it will by by a VERY small amount. I own the R1 and everyone knows it beats the 9R, but not by all that much. This will probably be the same gap that COULD lay between this ZX-12 and the Abuser.

Personally, from the pictures I have seen, I think the ZX-12 isn't designed well enough aerodynamically to best the 1300 in Top Speed. When you figure the Coeffiecent of Drag and the claims of this ZX12, it's going to need close too 200rwhp. Cummon, you know it's not going to happen with 100 less CC's to work with. We all know there are no substitute for CC's! What I am waiting for is the 2000 R1 which is rumored to get Ram AIR and EFI! Perhaps this will give me a better chance at running down my buddy with his Abuser!

Jaim Wolfe
 
Common sense? 8 second dragbikes weighing 400 lbs. and going 200 mph???

OK, common sense and reality mode now in full function. These 8 second, 400lb. dragbikes have wheelbases much, much, much longer than any of the street bikes we are speaking of. They also have a center of gravity that is much, much lower than any of these street bikes. They are also making at least 200 hp. This is like comparing John Forces' funny car to the production car that the fiberglass body is loosly based upon.

Streetbikes with street suspensions at normal ride height just don't run 8 second 1/4 miles. The ZX-12 is not going to do it and a 200 hp Hayabusa wouldn't do it either (at stock ride height).

This is not ZX-12 bashing, this is just common sense from someone who has been drag racing for 18 years.

Not ZX-9 bashing here but where does a ZX-9 run a 9.99 out of the box? I've seen a lot of pissed off Hayabusa owners at Motorcyclist Magazine for the poor numbers they posted for the 1300. That was just another example in a long string of poor journalism by Motorcylist/Sportrider which are both Petersen Publications with the same writers. The ZX-9 that Sportrider claimed to run a 9.99 on bone stock was really Rickey Gadsen's Prostar ZX-9 dragbike. Even though Sportrider said otherwise, those that were at Phoenix and witnessed it said that the bike was setup pure dragrace style, lowered to the ground, geared for 1/4 mile only, and tuned by 2 Kawasaki engineers that were sent to Phoenix for the express purpose of putting that ZX-9 in the 9's. Kent Kunitsugu of Sportider ran the 9.99 on Rickey Gadsen's dragbike. Rickey ran some 9.80's the same weekend on the same bike with a Muzzy exhaust system.
 
Sorry Slurpee but you've been kidding yourself for a lot of years.
Number one is that the Kawie 1100 has nothing on the GSXR1100 in the way of turning, So that means all your bike is good for is upright riding. Your bike is not competative in racing which is a proven fact,(thats why they use the GSXR1100 for the Suzuki endurance races in which it has taken over 12 championships.)
The Gixer 1100's engine is overbuilt, the Kawie's shows cost cutting to the max, and still has that cappie, klunky Kawie tranny. I've owned Kawie's as well as Honda's, Yamaha's and my Suzuki's. The real story is that your speaking from what has been written in books or magazines and not from reality or practical experience.

Mr G.
 
I dunno Erno. Stateside the 99XX is faster than a Zx11 top speed wise. And +17hp? Maybe across the pond but not here. I think they are getting maybe 3 or 4 more here.
 
Mr. Wolfe-man,

although the R1 has more CC and more horsepower than a ZX-9, an unmodified ZX-9 beats an unmodified R1 in top speed.

And I shouldn't be too thrilled about a new R1 with Ram Air and EFI, 'cause that's exactly what Honda did with the 1999 Blackbird, and despite all that and +17 HP it still can't beat a ZX-11 in top speed either...

Nonetheless, I think the R1 is a very good bike that doesn't need modifications, but I can't really judge 'cause I only rode a ZX-9.
 
Hey guys don't want to be a smart arse but with all this talk of hp and top speed etc,how many of you can ride your bikes to there limit???????????????.........just a thought.Cause..........if you can you should be racing,so 270.......300..... whatever it's all fast ,BLOODY FAST Boss
 
let's face it
as we've all said before
when talking about riding fast on the road
a great rider on a 5 year honda CBR600F2 would blow away the deep-pocketed, yet mediocre rider on the:
1. R1
2. ZX9R
3. 'Busa
4. F4
5. R6
etc...
i'm not talking about 1/4 or top speed
i'm talking about real-world riding
twisties for fun
you know what i mean

all this mental masturbation is making me nauseous

greg
 
A just saw a large contradiction. Someone just mentionned that a lack of cc's will prevent the ZX12 from catching the Eyeabusa in top speed, followed by saying that the new R1 will have a better chance of catching when it comes out in 2000. Isnt that 300cc less ? Stumped me !!!
 
Yeah, I don't really understand this facination with top speed. Once you get well over 150mph, who cares? Do any of us ride our bikes somewhere where we can safely go over 150 mph? I'm not willing to risk my life on a rock in the road or a little bunny rabbit that jumps out in front of your bike.

Question for the Hayabusa owners, what gear do you go through the traps with in the 1/4 mile? The Bus appears to be heavily undergeared in an all-out attempt for maximum top speed. I don't need to go 190mph. I'd rather get to 150mph faster. When I finally get my Bus the first mod will be to drop a tooth or two from the front sprocket.
 
Hey Erno & Coops,

Erno: I have never read (or seen) any proof that a stock 9R bests an R1 in top speed (Not that it really matters), but I will take your word for it.

Coops: I stated that the having fewer CC's is just going to make it that much harder for the ZX-12 to beat the Abuser. I also stated that future mods to the R1 may help in catching the Abuser, not beating it. I think everyone agrees that if you add horsepower and torque, any given machine will gain a higher top speed (given that it's geared to use it all).
 
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