Is there an electrician in the house?

el stumpo

Registered
Ok,
I'll admit I'm more of a breakanic than a mechanic, but sometimes I get things right. The ceiling fan pull thingys broke in our bedroom, so we ended up getting a new ceiling fan (yes, they can be replaced, more coming up). I installed the new ceiling fan and thought, I'm da man!
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Then the dreaded, "Hey, let's start fixing other things too!" feeling comes along. I decide my daughter's room needs more light, so I replace the pull thingys in our old ceiling fan and start to take hers off. Fans blades come off... light assembly... this is a breeze, it's going so smoothly! I can't believe my luck! I'll be able to make the 1PM football games!

I remove the motor part and wiring, it was tight, so I removed the wiring nuts and everything comes off. Quick inspection and then....
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I see the free black wire (good), I see the white wires connected in the junction box with one free wire(so far so good), then I spot the rest of the black wires in the junction box crimped to a white wire
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The lone black wire's matching white wire is connected to the group of black wires. I don't get it.
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I'm sure there's a reason for it.... but I thought all black wires go together and all white wires go together...

I did look online and read something about it could be 'hot' but I don't know. Here's a pic of the wires. Can someone tell me how I should wire the ceiling fan without burning down the house?
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White is a neutral ( It can go either way) On lights white sometimes is used for HOT for switching. ( I believe this is your question.. )PM me your number if ya need some help.What your are showing is really simple !
 
That looks like a mess. The white bundle is the neutral, the single black could be the switched hot, and the bundled black is the constant hot. Wire the constant hot to the fan, the single black to the light, and tie the whites together. If you want to double check, make sure the wires are separated and turn on the breaker. Use a volt meter to determine what I stated above. Use a helper to flip the switch for you. If you use a good quality leather gloves with no holes, you will be fine. Just keep the wires apart. Also, after you determine what is what, when you put the wire nuts back on, use electrical tape to cover and hold the wire nuts in place. Wrap the tape in a clockwise motion so you dont loosen the wire nut when you put the tape on. Better safe than sorry. Good luck bro!
 
Thanks for the advice! I did speak with PocketRocket and so far the house is still standing. Thanks Ron!!

Twotonevert - Anytime you want to come over and help me clean up that mess, I'd appreciate it!
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I wish I knew more about fixing houses....
 
Thanks for the advice! I did speak with PocketRocket and so far the house is still standing. Thanks Ron!!

Twotonevert - Anytime you want to come over and help me clean up that mess, I'd appreciate it!  
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 I wish I knew more about fixing houses....
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Cleaning up a poor wiring is not a fun job, but hey, we can do it if you really want!
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I'm going to try and replace the wire from the switch to the junction box (I think... I may back out
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The thought it to put in a three wire switch - one to control the light, the other the fan.

I hope I can just pull the wire up in the attic to the junction box (which I will replace, it appears to be plastic and the new fan instructions say to use a metal one). Plus add a better support for the junction box.

Wow.. how do these projects get started? It was just supposed to be one ceiling fan replacement
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I want to redo the wiring in the house, finding someone who knows what they are doing at an affordable price has been tough...
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Get several quotes and choose one in the middle. I work for an electric utility as an engineer, and I deal with electricians all the time. Believe me, they are not all the same. Good luck. By the way, if you plan to replace a single pole switch with a 3 pole, you will have to wire constant hot to all three and a switched hot to each circuit, fan, light, etc.
 
TWOTONE is telling you correct.. if you didnt have to pull a permit , and werent in a hurry I could help ya wire it. But I am booked for a few months.. I'm licensed in my State but Not NC.. What service panel do ya have? 200 amp main .. ? Rewire is harder than doing new . type of walls , age , Wires run above or below. 1 or 2 story, what you are wanting to do, all factors in.. You got my number if you need anything or got any questions...Glad to help " Thats what its all about"
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Often they will send the unswitched power down to the switch (that is why the white is in the bundle of black wires)so that when you see the black by itself in the junction box it is identified as "hot" to be connected to the black (and blue for the light on the fan). That is the case with yours. So if you want to have the fan and light operated as one from the single pole switch on the wall hook it up as stated above.
Twotonevert had a good idea to hook the fan (black) to the bundle of black wires with the one white in it. Then connect the single black (switched hot) to the light (blue wire) from the fan. This will allow you to operate the fan and light independently. Just remember that only the light will be switched from the wall. To use the fan you will have to pull the chain.
Other than that you will have to pull a three wire (black, red and blue w/ground) from the switch box to the junction box on the ceiling.
BTW why do you want to change the wiring? Is it brittle at the ends? Is there no ground wire?
 
BTW why do you want to change the wiring? Is it brittle at the ends? Is there no ground wire?
The wiring appears to be ok. THe only reason to change was that so I could put a dimmer on the lights and a switch for the fan - on/off. There is a ground wire.

I didn't do any of the other work I talked about today. Put the old fan up and left it at that
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Is it standard to control the lights from the switch and the fan from the pull cords? It has pull cords for both and can't think of an advantage of having the lights controlled by the switch or the fans...
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Is it standard to control the lights from the switch and the fan from the pull cords? It has pull cords for both and can't think of an advantage of having the lights controlled by the switch or the fans...
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Some people like to be able to control the lights and fan seperately. In all houses built today it is very common to wire the bedrooms with two the ability to do so. They will run a three wire from a two gang switch box to the ceiling box which is usually metal and supported by a block of wood.
The scenario would be if you wanted to just turn on the light without the fan. You can achieve the same result by keeping the fan off by the pull string but using the switches for the fan and light constantly can result in the chains being pulled out of the switches (as you already know).
To answer your question ,yes, it is common to control both the fan and light from the pull chains. When houses were built in the past they figured on just a light fixture being mounted on the ceiling. That is why the box is plastic. Those boxes screw to a metal bar that spans from joist to joist. They do that to get the exact center of the room.
 
Get a nice fan with a remote and you don't have to use the switch anymore, or pull chains.  
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Thats what we have in our living room. I love the remote for the fan. But, I will tell off on myself. I wired and hung the new fan, stepped down off the ladder and turned the breaker back on. Walk back into the living room and my wife is like, "honey, how do I turn it on?" And I was like, "just pull the............wtf?" Anyway, had to take the cover off the box and install the remote receiever in line. I hate when I do that. Its one of those big two blade fans from the home depot.
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