Is my Oxygen Sensor relevant or not?

My comments related to the O2 are based on hundreds of bikes that I have dynoed. The amount and area of closed loop varies between brands and models and the effect can go from unnoticed to unbelievable. There are models where closed loop can go from 10% to 80% throttle and cover an area up to and sometimes above 5,000 rpm. I can tell you that on a Honda Grom with a stock ecu you can only tune 90% throttle and above. Not there there is much happening on a Grom below that, but it shows where electronics are going. The 2017 CBR1000RR is a total waste to hang a powercommander on because of how limited they made the fuel map. Fuel injection itself became a necessity when the EPA leaned on motor vehicles in the late seventies and early eighties. The early carbureted bikes were lean and cold blooded back then because of the restrictions. Unfortunately, the EPA did not fade away and manufacturers are still forced to meet certain standards, especially with air/fuel, hence we still have PAIR systems and CATS and all sorts of nonsense. The introduction of O2s was not a performance move!
 
My comments related to the O2 are based on hundreds of bikes that I have dynoed. The amount and area of closed loop varies between brands and models and the effect can go from unnoticed to unbelievable. There are models where closed loop can go from 10% to 80% throttle and cover an area up to and sometimes above 5,000 rpm. I can tell you that on a Honda Grom with a stock ecu you can only tune 90% throttle and above. Not there there is much happening on a Grom below that, but it shows where electronics are going. The 2017 CBR1000RR is a total waste to hang a powercommander on because of how limited they made the fuel map. Fuel injection itself became a necessity when the EPA leaned on motor vehicles in the late seventies and early eighties. The early carbureted bikes were lean and cold blooded back then because of the restrictions. Unfortunately, the EPA did not fade away and manufacturers are still forced to meet certain standards, especially with air/fuel, hence we still have PAIR systems and CATS and all sorts of nonsense. The introduction of O2s was not a performance move!

Thanks Frank. We use Lamda more on the potential side, sometimes we still use MAP, but mostly MAF and we use exhaust gas temperature as well in the PID algorithm. The thing is all fuel around the world is not the same, winter, summer and the amount of ethanol added is important when it comes to Lambda and if one expects a motor to go 200,000 miles, or 750,000 if it is a diesel without a rebuild then those are all important.

The original remark of only EPA, 10% to 80% obviously that is not only for EPA. Where does the GenII Busa fit in this range?

If you can only tune 90% and above, for reliability my first concern would be fuel dilution in the oil, or the need for more frequent oil changes. On my Husqvarna this is very noticeable, on the Hayabusa it is absolutely negligible.
 
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Hard to believe Suzuki designed the system just to satisfy EPA

EVERY manufacturer out there designs their system just to satisfy the EPA. Just look at the millions upon millions it cost VW for not "satisfying" the EPA. :fire:
 
Hard to believe Suzuki designed the system just to satisfy EPA

EVERY manufacturer out there designs their system just to satisfy the EPA. Just look at the millions upon millions it cost VW for not "satisfying" the EPA. :fire:
LOL
Pretty ironic, Rupert Stadler, CEO of Audi arrested a couple of days ago for the emissions tweaking thing. And then most of the motorcycle gang throw away all that stuff some even before the bike leaves the showroom and it is no big deal.

My take on an after market Busa tune is if you can still get close to 50 mpg on babying a Gen2 and after 5000 miles your oil still looks pretty clean, you had a pretty good tuner. That is for a bike used on the street most of the time.
 
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Is it possible to richen the a/f beyond the factory settings and still get clean plugs. With my bike (Hayabusa) tuned in the 13.1 - 14.1 range (under boost cruise throttle, 1 - 10% tps), my plugs are never clean like a stock motor, untuned bike...
 
Hard to believe Suzuki designed the system just to satisfy EPA

EVERY manufacturer out there designs their system just to satisfy the EPA. Just look at the millions upon millions it cost VW for not "satisfying" the EPA. :fire:

Yup, this is the PC BS we live under, and then they tell us it's all OUR fault the planet's climate is changing!! Well, you know what?? It's constantly changing, that's what it does, even without us here.
 
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Hi. I had a Toyota pick up truck it had 355000 mi. It would just pass the EPA test in Ma. I took the cat and the EGR off at the next years EPA test it read all 0s. thats with over 385000 mi. on it. On a trip out of state at 40 to 45 MPH on back roads and with 2 bikes in the back I got a best of 44 MPG! I loved that truck! The frame split 2 tines we welded it but 2 YRS later at about 445000 mi the frame was all done.
 
Hi. I had a Toyota pick up truck it had 355000 mi. It would just pass the EPA test in Ma. I took the cat and the EGR off at the next years EPA test it read all 0s. thats with over 385000 mi. on it. On a trip out of state at 40 to 45 MPH on back roads and with 2 bikes in the back I got a best of 44 MPG! I loved that truck! The frame split 2 tines we welded it but 2 YRS later at about 445000 mi the frame was all done.

You sir, wore out a Toyota...Congratulations!
So few of us can actually say that, lol
 
Hi. I had a Toyota pick up truck it had 355000 mi. It would just pass the EPA test in Ma. I took the cat and the EGR off at the next years EPA test it read all 0s. thats with over 385000 mi. on it. On a trip out of state at 40 to 45 MPH on back roads and with 2 bikes in the back I got a best of 44 MPG! I loved that truck! The frame split 2 tines we welded it but 2 YRS later at about 445000 mi the frame was all done.
I wish Toyota used better frame construction techniques. It seems like they fall apart before the motor kicks the bucket!
 
Bang! This is my problem! Its too easy to loose horsepower and or economy with ECU manipulation. I have no personal problem with 186 mph restrictive settings. I just want the bike to function without the heat of the cat between my legs, please. Also this maybe crazy, but the best tuned ECU bike just does not sound like the carborated models. As much as i love Hayabusas, thier sound is not appealing. Does anyone know why they use 2 into 1 collectors instead of 4 into one? I rather my bike muffled. The inate exhaust note reminds me of a propane powered Hyster forklift.
 
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