Iraq and North Korea

[Thinker62]

I would just like to say that I am happy that I was born on THIS side of the street, if you know what I mean. Additionally, I am willing to fight to protect my way of life.

However, with that siad, I can't ignore the hypocritic doctrin that we are jamming down people's throats. Our position is that we have developed weapons of mass destruction, and we are keeping them! Furthermore, we want to draw the line there. If you don't have these weapons already, you ain't gett'n em!

We are saying that the US is a Super Power, and we refuse to allow any "new" super powers to develop...nana nana boo boo, or how ever that goes.

As I said, I am happy to be American, and willing to fight for the US, but I just can't ignore the obvious hypocracy. Does anyone else find it funny that we only notice civil rights attrocities when there is something larger at stake, like oil or the balance of power due to weapon development?

Any way, that is my .02.

Thinker

 

[STUNNAH]

America the worlds Bullie!!!!

 

[bacharles]

Differing opinions with some very relevant and true points. Let me first start off by saying that I agree with most of what has been said here. Most relevant is the argument made by Narcissus and Stunnah. Their perspectives together basically hit the nail on the head as to what is currently going on in America.

My position is that America should leave these people alone. Trying to police the world and liberating everyone has been America's signature trademark since the time of the Native Americans when their land was stolen from them. This has been a culture with our 'powers that be.' Can someone explain this? Why is it that we can't police ourselves and handle our own problems? In my eyes, this would truly make us a great nation. We have an ill economy, poor educational system (as compared to our status in the world), failing health care system (especially for the elderly), racism (it still exists and you'd better believe it), homelessness (more poor and disenfranchised people than we can shake a stick at), and a lackluster feeling about the future.

Let's start out with the government. O.K., let's kick the ballistics...Government is a business! And business fights back when it feels threatened. Look at what happened with the Iran Contra affair. Oliver North took the rap for some sh^t that Ronald Reagan was doing. All that and he and his cronies all still have high paying government jobs right now. Look at drug trafficking. This is also a business that has been controlled by the government (CIA) since the 60's. California Representative Maxine Waters uncovered valuable information that tied drug smuggling in with the CIA. Explain how we can go to the moon and we can't stop drugs from entering the country? Also, anytime anyone tried to champion a cause to bring solidarity amongst the races in this country, they were assassinted. History shows us that JFK was killed, but it never truly reveals what brought about the plot. Everything with JFK started with his efforts (or lack thereof in the eyes of some) during the Cuban Missile Crisis. If anyone hasn't figured it out yet, "War is a means to serve politics, which in turn is related directly to government." Answer this question, but please don't take this as a shot at Republicans. Why is it that every war that America has been in, the President was always Republican? If you don't believe me, just check you History books. I realize and believe in having political parties is all bullsh^t. All they do is use each others dirty little secrets against one another in order to gain popularity with the voters. This country is twisted in that it based on the almighty dollar. Those who have, will do anything to protect what they have and to gain more. Wanting more is just human nature. It's a flaw of creativity, but who are we to second guess our maker.

I agree that History has shown that throughout the ages that at some point, the beast will fall. Our life follows a set path, and whether your belief is in a Superior Being or not, we will all meet the same fate. We are in the midst of something that we probably can't just turn back now and say..."O.K., I'll leave you alone for now, but you must follow the rules."

Tupac Shakur wrote a song that explained our government best. He said that he lived his life the way that he did because he didn't want to get caught up in all the 'Capitlistic drug dealing.' This means that the government puts all kinds of propaganda out there for the public to latch on to and believe in. It's like a drug and we can never get enough of it. Government is the drug kingpin and the media is street dealer. We never see the underlying truths as to why our government act as they do. I think that this is a great idealogy of what America is all about.

I have lots more to say, but I think I've said just enough to put something on our minds.



Brian

 

[race24x]

Wow what a topic . I have to agree with alot of what is said by all . But there are things we are tricked into believing by our government and things our government doesnt tell us . Things they do for reasons not disclosed to us . I do have to say I am very disappointed in our government about the whole Iraq thing . We did not provide any real facts and the UN inspectors have found nothing. Not even a little what a joke . After we watched our President and others claim they have proof of weapons of mass destruction . Well where the hell are they ? It seems to me there must be another motive for going to Iraq and wanting a war . We can all speculate why oil, economic need, Bush influenced by his fathers failure, Saddam is a pain , hard telling when you dont get let in on the secret . Maybe they do have weapons maybe we are just gathering intel first for the invasion . Who knows but until we find something worth attacking for I say we dont. And what the hell is the deal with N Korea we need to send some people to talk with China and Russia and kick N Koreas ass they lied to us took our money and oil developed Nuclear weapons and then told us haha we did it anyway now if you dont give us more we will go to war with you . If you give us economic sanctions we will nuke you . This sounds exactly why we dont want Saddam to develop these weapons . Give us your money and oil etc and we wont nuke you . Hmmm does anyone else think that sounds like a ransom note . We need to find out who is going to help N Korea and make a pact with them hell give N korea to China what do we care as long as they stop getting stuff from us . The deal is we spend a whol.e lot of money to rebuild people that brought us into wars and never get a friggin thing back they never pay us we send humanitarian aid but cant afford a public health care system and social security that we have all paid in is bankrupt or will be soon . Money and free oil special nuke plants to make electricity so on and so forth for everyone from our tax dollars . We pay to help everyone but ourselves . Feed the homeless welfare etc just enough to live on and welfare so mothers can have kids and stay home creating the next generation of welfare recipients . We need to spend alittle more money and time repairing our own country and less on every other one that turns around and goes to war with us with weapojns we sold no gave them . I think our country is flawed and in trouble but when I look around they keep us just happy enough not to create and outrage the system is crappy but I have to say it is the best one out there . I love what my country stood for now its like we are trying to hard to be the worlds watch dog . Anyway I vote for kick N Koreas ass obviously consulting China and Russia first . But if you cant find any weapons in Iraq get the hell out . Get some Navy seals in there to whack Saddam and see who takes over .

 

[STUNNAH]

Race24x,

I like...Kill the @#$! out of Saddam...And kick the $#@! out of N. Korea's @#$...

 

[race24x]

Well it seems alittle funny to me that N Korea has no oil and we dont care that they pretty much sayed screw you we made nukes and took you money and oil . Iraq says we have no weapons of mass destruction we send in a team they go anywhere they want so far with no problem cant find a thing and we are loading up on soldiers to go to war with them and take over there oil fields to pay for it .......

 

[Thinker62]

 Trying to police the world and liberating everyone has been America's signature trademark since the time of the Native Americans when their land was stolen from them.  This has been a culture with our 'powers that be.'  Can someone explain this?  Why is it that we can't police ourselves and handle our own problems? In my eyes, this would truly make us a great nation.  We have an ill economy, poor educational system (as compared to our status in the world), failing health care system (especially for the elderly), racism (it still exists and you'd better believe it), homelessness (more poor and disenfranchised people than we can shake a stick at), and a lackluster feeling about the future.  

                                                  Brian

This topic is just to braod to cover in this type of forum, and many of you have taken the opportunity to talk about all the ills of our society, which just makes the topic even broader. If I really start writing, it would go on forever.

but I will give my answer to Brian's question: "Why is it that we can't police ourselves and handle our own problems? "
The reason is that we are not really policing the world. That is propaganda so that the public will swallow what is going on. Everything we do has an alterior motive...money. There is an economic reason for keeping Iraq in check, just like there was an economic reason for putting him in power. All of a sudden we give a $h^t about civil rights under Algueda...yeah right! It's all about money and power. We have it and intend to keep it. We know that access to energy (oil) means power, and that is why we are so involved over there. Exactly what do we owe Israel? Nothing. If anyone owes them something, it is Germany. It just serves our purposes for the moment to be allies with Israel.

Anyway, now I am off the subject, but my point is that US Foriegn Policy is all about maintaining wealth and power, period. It just sounds better when we say that we are saving innocent people, or protecting the world from the "axis of evil".

Thinker

 

[bacharles]

but I will give my answer to Brian's question: "Why is it that we can't police ourselves and handle our own problems? "
The reason is that we are not really policing the world. That is propaganda so that the public will swallow what is going on. Everything we do has an alterior motive...money.

Like I said Thinker, it's called capitalistic drug dealing.




Brian

 

[race24x]

Just imagine what it would be like if a normal middle class persop like one of us where President we would get shot for sure trying to tax the rich corperations and all .

 

[mikeyusf]

this is my take on the whole america versus the world situation. I'm sick of it, I had both my parents serve a combined 30 years in the Air Force, and I used to be alot more patriotic.

I'm sick of the US soldiers getting hurt and killed for crap that is forgotten 2 weeks after it's over.

I'm sick of driving through poverty stricken neighborhoods that look worse than third world countries while our politicians waste billions on garbage that doesnt do anything

I'm sick of politicians who think that the American Military is for getting votes in the next election. As in "gee, I'm behind in the polls, lets send 20,000 troops to die in some troubled country to display my authority so I can get relected"

I'm sick of the US sticking it's nose in places it doesnt belong, and pissing off people we cant protect ourselves from.

Sorry to vent guys, I just dont see these terrorists bombing canada, or switzerland, and many of these other neutral coutries. Why cant the US be a neutral country? Why do we have to give a $h*t what happens in other coutries, when we can change things?

I tell you what, Tom Cruise said "love it or leave it", and as soon as I can save up enough money, I'm packing my bags and moving to Canada. All these american problems are a million miles away from those people. I am just sick of these nonstop problems, I want to raise my kids in a peaceful, safe environment, and ride my motorcycle. Sorry to rant guys

Mike

 

[busahigg]

Well...I didn't vote however I do have a little to add...(take into consideration I'm on Valium today for my back, so this might not make a whole lot of sense).

As far as us being a world police force....we are....I have been to over six foreign countries in support of the world policing effort in ten short years in the army. Now as far as the reasons for going to those places....not always entirely clear....normally it's republicans.

On the other hand.....we damn sure can handle sorry ass N. Korea and Iraq at the same time...but would we want to do something like that? That is going to put a serious strain on our economy and homeland security would be very vulnerable. We have plenty of soldiers and equipment to go around. Since the early 80's the Army has had a "two war" theory. "WE" should be able to fight two wars, in two seperate parts of the globe simultaneously. Bull.....we can but we should never have to....that means things are in a sorry state of affairs. In my opinion we should stop trying to tell everyone how to do things and support the U.N. more....they can handle it.

 

[bacharles]

Just imagine what it would be like if a normal middle class persop like one of us where President we would get shot for sure trying to tax the rich corperations and all .

That is probably the best response I've heard...





Brian

 

[race24x]

While again we find nothing in Iraq and are sending more and more troops there . N Korea is giving us a big old screw you we are backing out of our treaty and we will build nukes restart our nuke plants and do whatever we want and if you even think about economic sanctions or not giving us what we want we could possibly start WW3 . What a bunch of crap souihds like a kid having a temper tamtrum cause they arent getting enough Christmas presents . All they want is more more more oh yah and they still had a hidden Nuke project going on even when we were giving them what they want . If you where a kid and you acted like that wouldnt your Mom or Dad give you a good butt whoopin . No there not our kids but they seem to think that threatening the US is going to get them something again sounds like a ransom note

 

[Thinker62]

this is my take on the whole america versus the world situation. I'm sick of it, I had both my parents serve a combined 30 years in the Air Force, and I used to be alot more patriotic.

I'm sick

I'm sick

I'm sick

I'm sick

Sorry to vent guys, I just dont see these terrorists bombing canada, or switzerland, and many of these other neutral coutries. Why cant the US be a neutral country? Why do we have to give a $h*t what happens in other coutries, when we can change things?

I tell you what, Tom Cruise said "love it or leave it", and as soon as I can save up enough money, I'm packing my bags and moving to Canada. All these american problems are a million miles away from those people. I am just sick of these nonstop problems, I want to raise my kids in a peaceful, safe environment, and ride my motorcycle. Sorry to rant guys

Mike

I hope you feel better soon.

But I do see feel what you are saying.

Thinker

 

[STUNNAH]

Just imagine what it would be like if a normal middle class persop like one of us where President we would get shot for sure trying to tax the rich corperations and all .

That is probably the best response I've heard...





                                  Brian

I agree with Bacharles and other's on this quote...However, I do not believe it to be the best, but I do believe it to be the truest...