Snakers
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First, let me warn you, it is a long read, and it also include some points of view from some communist a-hole.
Enjoy.
Enjoy.
B. S.
:: Who says we shouldn't raise taxes for the top tax brackets? <56% of the net worth of Americans is held by the top 10% of US households. Total net
worth of Americans was $58 trillion as of 3/31/11> (source: Census Bureau, Federal Reserve)
K. A. H.
oo way to cite that lol
D. W.
And that is fair how? Are the rich not to be treated as equals? Why cant the government operate within the means of a flat tax system where all americans are taxed....equally. Why should I be taxed more if I make more than you? Now the American Dream comes with a higher tax rate? Thats really promotes innovation.
Brittany Sayre it's called "Vertical Equity" Derek. and if that is the case, then why don't we all get the same amount of financial aid-pay same price for college, regardless on the ability to pay or not pay?
3 hours ago · Like
B. S.
...and think of how that top 10% got all of their money, many from tax breaks, tax loopholes, and needless "bonuses". do they really need multiple houses, private jets, multiple cars, living a lavish lifestyle. WHERE IS OUR MIDDLE CLASS?
D. W.
Wouldnt that be where a flat tax rate comes into play? 25% across all americans, no breaks, period. Wouldnt that generate 25% of all the american income? I think it would. If we cant operate within 25% of america's net income, we have bigger issues at hand. BTW: I am the middle class, and I get hurt by taxes just as much as anyone else, but there is no reason to beat the **** out of the rich people because they are more success and we ALLOW them to use the "loop holes". They arent the devil because they are using an opportunity that we know exists and allow them to use.
D. W. You should really re-read your 2nd post. Its communism and it only works on paper. Your talking about making sure that everyone only has what everyone else has. That doesnt work in the real world.
N. R.
If the government get more money all they will do is piss it away on some entitlement program. To quote P.J. O'Rourke, "Giving money and power to government is like giving whiskey and car keys to teenage boys." As for raising taxes why don't we raise taxes on the 50% of US households who pay no taxes?
TJ M.
Just stop using tax revenue on dumb **** like defense http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milit...litary_budget_and_total_US_federal_spending
D. W.
Well, we need defense. So how about on socialist programs that dont work and dont encourage the general population to be more self reliant? We will need that defense budget until we stop trying to police the world...
P. L.
1. We don't have socialist programs
2. Defense needs to be severely. Not only is the military industrial complex a huge money pit of wasteful spending, its operating cost is too high; primarily due to how dependent our military is on private industry. Private industry is expensive and has extremely high overhead due to advertising, marketing and the profit motive. China spends only $95 billion on its military vs our $650 billion, yet is ranked #2 in terms of strength.
3. We need to restore progressive taxation, going back to a pre-Reagan era tax rate. We also need to nationalize large industry and establish said enterprises into democratically controlled worker-run cooperatives.
4. Getting rid of the current private Federal Reserve central banking system and replacing it with a democratically controlled state central banking system would be wise as well. Eliminating/Reducing private speculation would also be helpful; replacing it with public investment similar to China would help as well....
D. W.
1. Welfare, federal unemployment, etc are socialist programs. See social democracy: advocates for social reforms to improve capitalism, such as a welfare state and unemployment benefits
2. Our military makes some of the most innovative discoveries in defense research, and that is due to R&D in the industry. If our government did not spend money to private sector and conduct their own research as well, we would not have the state-of-the-art equipment and defensive strategies we do today. The areas were we lack in this department is the undying need of the people to tell us we need to take care of other countries and fight for their freedom and police the world.
3. Why not take your progressive taxation to the extreme and tell everyone that the government will take anything you make over $X. Progressive tax systems promote retention of success and create a strategy to bypass the system. If I make $1 below the next tier of the progressive tax system, they wont take an addition X% of my income, so I am going to shut down business and lay off workers for the remaining duration of the year because the government is telling me that if I make $1 more, I will net less.
4. Not an area I am familiar with at the moment.
P. L.
1. Welfare and federal unemployment are social liberal programs. Socialist programs change power relations between rich and poor. those you named are basic liberal/progressive programs because they operate on the premise of 'capitalism with a human face.' There is no rebalancing of power between the have and have-nots, which disqualifies them from being socialist. I would know being a socialist lol....(DSAUSA.ORG)
2. Our military's innovative discoveries are increasing the police state apparatus and is responsible for the majority of the world's violence. If the government invested its money in technological development in life sustaining technologies, instead of defense, we would making (read) USEFUL discoveries to improve human living standards, not new weapons of war. Nor would we need to create wars in foreign countries, to drive demand for new weapons.
3. That is not a bad idea actually. That would improve and strenthen the democratic process and money could be routed towards human need, instead of being hoarded by rich unaccountable private individuals who would use such excess wealth to corrupt the political system.
Secondly, the idea that taxation harms success is stupid. Not everyone is so vain that they are motivated by money. Some of us believe in education, duty, and like to work because we simply love to work. People are not driven by these 'false incentives' most right wing conservatives harp about...
TJ M.
13. Im not wearing pants
D. W.
You have got to be kidding me...our military responsible for the majority of world violence? Your complete off your rocker where I shouldn't even dignify you with a response. Alas, yes, blame the US military for the massacres in Africa. Blame the US military for holy wars that date back 2000 some years. Blame the US military for cartels, drug lords, war lords, etc.
Your right, the idea that taxation harming success is stupid, however progressive taxation very well can harm success. A flat tax rate encourages one to do better, because no matter how much I make, im only paying X% in taxes. Think about it. The harder I work to make more money, the less of a % i keep. I work 100% harder than anyone else, but I only get to keep 50% more than they do. Not a fair trade off.
about an hour ago · Like
Derek Whitaker You clearly dont belong in a capitalistic society. Thats what America is. You should leave.
P. L.
Your right, the idea that taxation harming success is stupid, however progressive taxation very well can harm success. A flat tax rate encourages one to do better, because no matter how much I make, im only paying X% in taxes. Think about it. The harder I work to make more money, the less of a % i keep. I work 100% harder than anyone else, but I only get to keep 50% more than they do. Not a fair trade off.
First of all, taxation is based on the ability to pay. If I am making $10,000,0000 a year and my income tax rate is 60%, I still have $4,000,000 left. How is that not far? lol If you re fiscally responsible, $4,0000,000 can last a lifetime. Especially ifyou invest it in a bank with compounding interest. You could probably live off the interest alone with that much money, and you are making that every year. Cry more, if you ask me lol.
D. W. Please. You act like the only reason africans are killing africans these days are ONLY because of "US objectives" but im pretty sure africans killing africans dates back before shakazulu and would continue to this date with or without us intervention.
If I am to work, I will keep what I work for. You can feel free to give 60% of your earnings if you like, but dont impose that **** on me. You have that option ANYTIME you want. Why should you enforce that on me? Its not wrong of me to work hard to I have the opportunity to drive sports cars, open more businesses, have more hobbies, build a nice house, etc. If you dont want that for yourself, give up all your money that you earn, but that doesnt mean you should require people that dont feel the same way as you to do the same as you.
Stop trying to eliminate the American Dream.
P. L.
If I am to work, I will keep what I work for. You can feel free to give 60% of your earnings if you like, but dont impose that **** on me.
How is the social contract imposing? You live in a society that protects you and provides for you with safety, free roads, education among other pluses of living in an advanced capitalist country. Why is paying taxes imposing? Everyone has to do their part. Its not like they are taking everything from you.
You have that option ANYTIME you want. Why should you enforce that on me? Its not wrong of me to work hard to I have the opportunity to drive sports cars, open more businesses, have more hobbies, build a nice house, etc. If you dont want that for yourself, give up all your money that you earn, but that doesnt mean you should require people that dont feel the same way as you to do the same as you.
Yet, as a conservative you want other people to feel the same way you do about taxation, spending habits and job ethic, do you not? I can't remember the last time I haven't heard a conservative telling people how they need to live correctly to live a 'prosperous' life. Everyone has to do their part in society. There is no such thing as a person being so much an individual that he is more important than others.
D. W.
I dont care how you feel or what you do, but I dont need to be told how to live or what I think by anyone.
Work Ethic: If you dont want to work, dont. But dont expect me to take care of your ass while im working for a living and your not. If im working harder than you, i deserve more. If you choose not to, then you dont, and you will be compensated accordingly.
Spending Habbits: If you want to be frugal with your money do so. If you want to spend it all til your broke, do so. But do it on your own, dont associate me with it. Me, I choose to make lots of money and spend it how I see fit. If you spend all your money and have none left, dont expect me to give you any because you couldnt budget appropriately.
Taxation: Everyone owes their FAIR share. So how do you want it to be so its FAIR. By percentage or dollar amount? Everyone could owe $100 per year, or everyone could owe 25% of what they make a year. But dont tell me I should pay a higher percentage than you because I make more money than you do. "There is no such thing as a person being so much an individual that he is more important than others." If I make more money than you, and you tax me more because of it, you are making me more important than you. I dont want to be more important than you. I want to be the same as you. I want to pay the same percentage as you OR the same dollar amount as you in taxes.
F. J. II
All of these ideas are nice to talk about but here's the truth. None of them will ever be realized. Because the government no longer works for the people. We live in a plutocracy that is solely controlled by the wealthy. Not the rich, the wealthy. Since starting a flat tax would raise the taxes of many people at the top, it won't happen since either through private donations or donations through their companies, they pretty much pay for the campaigns of every democrat and republican politician. If anyone voted for this, bye bye re-election. Since these same people control all of the corporate media, any attempt to start this movement and especially a sliding tax rate would be labeled socialist and quickly thrown out.
It also wouldn't work to cut subsidies, loopholes, and other benefits large companies get from the government because industry controls our government. The food industry has it's people on the right committees in congress and the right government agencies. Same with oil, banking, etc. Essentially, people have lost all power. The only power we still have is a majority vote over the top 1% of the social strata but when they dictate the only 2 people we can vote for, what kind of power is that really?
Now, to taxes. If you really learn where our money comes from and how much debt our country truly has, which I think Phillip might be a little more aware of, you'll learn that if every American gave all of their money to the government, we'd still be in debt because our dollar had debt on it when it was made. The only way to undo the damage that has been done would be a complete overhaul of our entire financial system which, barring a total collapse of our economy WILL NOT happen due to the reasons mentioned above.
And D.W., yes, Africans killing Africans does date back to ancient times because they're human. And humans killing humans dates back to the dawn of our existence. But if you look into the external pressures coming down on African leaders by the money power in this world, you see how it is in their best interest to oppress their people. And it doesn't only happen in Africa. It happens everywhere. When you wear a Nike shirt or Reebok shoes or buy a computer you're buying into it. The power making the wealthy wealthier, the poor poorer, and the middle poorer as well is global and they aren't going anywhere soon. Barring a large scale revolution the whole world will be under their boot soon. Sorry for the bleak outlook.
D. W.
The US budget is an entirely different conversation and a lot of stuff got thrown in here. All I want is equality in taxation, whether it be everyone pays the same percentage, or everyone pays the same dollar amount, I just want tax equality.
