I promise last few newbie questions





SuperBusa02

Registered
The manual says use 87 octain gas is this what u guys use. I know if a car says to use 87 octain u should use 87 cause a higer octain would cause a little less hp?? unless it requires high octain.
And is it really that easy to change the oil. just remove the right farring?
Thanks
Martin
 

Revlis

Re-Recycled, Busa-Less...
Donating Member
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I have a thought on this, Premium fuels have a higher concentration of detergents, anti-varnish compounds, etc...
Your Bike may not produce more power using premium fuel but the motor/fuel system may thank you. I believe that using premium can also result in an engine that runs a little cooler...I think...I may be full of it on this point though, but I think I read it somewhere.
 

Juggler

Techie Answer Guy
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SB2,
Good question. I've used 92 on my bike since I bought it (going on 4 weeks). I had never thought about whether or not it would hurt performance/engine. I'm interested to see what people are using...
 

WWJD

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Registered
Race car freak [builds them] here at work says use the lowest octane it's tuned for... 87... cuz it burns faster and will keep cooler BECAUSE it burns faster, and give you best HP. Dang it! I just filled up with 92. I'll be switching to 87 asap and see what happens. Plus saves me a dime a gallon ;)

Then there's this:
http://www.motorcycle.com/mo/mcnuts/rt-fuel1.html

In many high-performance situation, riders clamor for higher octane fuels, thinking this will give them additional horsepower and, thus, an advantage over the competition. But this is not the case--adding higher-octane race fuel to your motorcycle may actually produce less horsepower. Here's why: Octane, an arbitrary number which is calculated as the average of the Research Octane Number (RON) and the Motor Octane Number (MON), and is only an indic ation of a fuel's sensitivity to knock, which is typically pressure-induced self-ignition. (Of these two ratings, MON is more applicable to racing fuels as it is measured under high load and high speed conditions.)

Octane, as you can see, is not a measure of how much power--or, more correctly, specific energy--is contained in a fuel. And remember that leaded high-octane race fuels burn slower than most unleaded fuels, and may reduce performance in stock or lightly modified motorcycles. A high octane rating itself, however, does not mean that the fuel is slow burning. Hence, it has no direct bearing on the power characteristics of the fuel.

The knock tendency (and hence, the Octane rating) of a fuel is a function of the amount of free radicals present in the fuel prior to ignition and can be reduced by the addition of tetra ethyl lead, aromatics and other additives.
 

dezzy7

Registered
Dang maybe i should try using 87, after all thats what the guy who makes the bike recommends?
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??? I've got 200,000 miles on my car with no problems and all i've ever burned was 87
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?
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?
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??? I think this is like the oil question...motorcycle or car, synthetic or not???

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Revlis

Re-Recycled, Busa-Less...
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Just a thought, In the article you link to mentions using higher octane fuels in "Racing Engines" to prevent pre-ignition and allow the use of higher compression ratios.

Would you consider 11:01 a high compression ratio?

Would you consider 1300 CC's making 175HP an engine under alot of stress?

The Busa's motor produces liter per liter more HP than a Dodge Viper. A few other examples:
S2000-120 HP per liter
ZO6 Vette- 71HP per, the highest yet for a GenIII Smallblock
BMW M3- Just over 100HP per liter...

I dunno what to think really, I would consider the Busa's Compression ratio High but not "real" high, and the Busa does have some pretty good fuel/ignition smarts.

So I really don't know, I never actually saw the recommended fuel as 87RON,
I just assumed that a high performance engine would need the best fuel you can find...
Interesting, will have to try a tank of 87 and see.
 

WWJD

Donating Member
Registered
I coulda swore 93 OCT in my KAW gave a peppier ride but maybe it was psychological. The thing I wonder about is the 'timing' issue where the slow burn needs timing adjustments?? That's all beyond me, as I still pay for oil changes!! I just check, start, hop, ride! (sometimes I don't check... yeah, yeah, I know I should)

Still waiting for someone to post with actual reports of 87 OCT.
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?
 

Racer 222

The rider formerly known as Howlin_Mad
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I run the highest I can find and have since the day that I bought her! Ran race fuel in it before and there was a big gain. I'll stick with what I know.

Marc "Howlin Mad"
 

PaceMaster

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Registered
I rode 8k miles last summer..all on 87 octane...i do twist it up
often but not as often as i would like to..no pinging,detonation
I've been into the revlimiter a few times..Runs just perfect except for that very lowspeed surging...
Who are we to second guess the people that designed this awsome engine...87 unless you raise compression, or turbo it.
then ones getting into the world of aftermarket...full of unpleasant suprises...tuning a modified engine is an art...
ask N.E. it's not just bolt on and go.....even a full exhaust
messes it up without the correct pc2 or 3 mapping..
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rubbersidedown

BUSA-RIDIN'-BASTID
Donating Member
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VERY cool topic ...OK get this . My last ride: 2000 GSXR 750.
The sticker on top of the fuel tank strongly suggested a rating of 95 or HIGHER . Well...I ran 94 in it , because in this part of the world , 94 is the highest you can get .
The average gas station in this part of the world has 87,89,91or92,and 94 .
BAM BAM BAM....that was me bangin' my head against the wall.....I'm confused .
The WRONG gas....all these years.....
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rubbersidedown

BUSA-RIDIN'-BASTID
Donating Member
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o ya.....yer topic title
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the last few newbie questions .
NEVER stop askin' questions . Ask a good one....great info,gr8 banter,good fun .
Ask a bad one....get flamed,made fun of,good fun.
IT ALL ENDS IN GOOD FUN .
Never stop askin' .
 

PaceMaster

Donating Member
Registered
To balance out this issue and make it more confusing..Like Howli'n said...use the highest octane you can get..
When road racing at Infinion in the early ninties.. with a 89 FZR 600 Yamaha..they said.......since it costs so much to race
"why take a chance of getting a bad batch of pump gas"..
so we used the good stuff 100+ octane..always ran good on that...and exhaust that smelled good...but will never know if there was a power gain...
Just before the FZR i had a 88GSXR1100..ran 10.76 et @ 128
on 91 octane...at Sacramento friday night drags..no pinging
just a wild ride...ah..memories
 

Revlis

Re-Recycled, Busa-Less...
Donating Member
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So Basically this "Newbie" question has us all stumped...
Pacemaster, Who are we to second guess the people that designed this awsome engine...87 unless you raise compression...[/QUOTE]

This is true BUT, Have you noticed what speed "according to the manual" you are supposed to shift into second gear?  I think It is at about 12 MPH, 3rd at like 22MPH...
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I know they do it this way for EPA/DOT reasons but they do actually write it down.  What I want to know is if they recommend 87octane for a similar environmental/DOT reasons?
 

Tree

Registered
From '86-'89 I would drive 350 miles one way every Friday and Sunday, 90% highway. I did the experiment several times on both the bike and a couple of cars. Higher octane = higher gas mileage. The cost was almost identical when the mpg is figured in. These were based on the same roads just different octane ratings. I allways run 93 in the bike.

Later,

Steve
 

WWJD

Donating Member
Registered
hmmm.... sooo..... does higher milage = lower power the same way that NOT hammering the throttle = higher mileage??
These are all great responses!

more junk:
http://www.msgroup.org/TIP037.html
Assuming your engine is properly tuned, then you need to think about the octane rating of the fuel you use.
Octane ratings
I think that some attention should be paid by all of us to both altitude and temperature in the selection of our fuels. When it is hot a higher octane is often called for. The closer to sea level you are, the more likely you should be running with a grade of gasoline above 'regular'. Note, however, that the newer your motorcycle is, the less likely you need to run anything other than 'regular' - ever. Motorcycles manufactured after about 1980 (other than the odd 'Boxer Twin') were made to run quite well with regular gasoline. In the middle of summer, if you notice a slight pinging from your engine, a medium grade of gasoline might be just the right 'fix', and it's cheap.
Using a higher octane than is needed does not cause unusual engine wear, though it may tend to cause a carbon build-up within the engine - particularly if you use premium grade. Using a lower rating, if it results in pinging, DOES do engine damage (the theme of this message, after all.)

Pinging is the sound of damage being done to your engine (directly or indirectly - and, of course, it could simply mean that you are driving in too high a gear.) A higher grade of gasoline eliminates pinging - however, it may also merely camouflage what is really wrong by eliminating those pings.) In other words it is perfectly safe (assuming that there is not something fundamentally wrong with your engine and you do not use a higher octane to eliminate symptoms), though a bit more expensive, to use a higher octane gasoline for part of your driving year.

If your bike does not ping (at all) when using regular, fine, use regular. If it does, then move up a grade of gasoline.

http://www.dansmc.com/gas.htm
There is a lot of misinformation on gas octane out there. So let's take a look at it. If you have a high compression ratio, you are squeezing a lot of air into a little space. Whenever you compress air it gets hot. Lots of compression equals lots of heat. When you heat an explosive mixture it tends to explode. Now this explosion is what we want, but we want it to occur at the right time. That is when the spark plug fires. If the fuel mixture starts to burn before the spark plug fires you end up with two flame heads. One from the spark plug and one from wherever a hot spot developed in the combustion chamber. When these two flame heads hit each other there is a lot heat and pressure, and it goes PING ! This is called pre-ignition. Also known as knocking or pinging. When you hear that ping it's kinda like someone is hitting your piston with the round end of a ball peen hammer. The piston can handle it for a while, but not for long. Sooner or later it will put a hole in the piston. What can you do ? You can retard the ignition a bit and lose your horse power or you can use a fuel that will not fire off as easily. The higher the octane number the harder it is for the fuel to start burning. This reduces the chance that a hot spot, in the combustion chamber, will pre-ignite, causing pinging. Lead worked really well for this, that is, lead helped raise the octane numbers in gasoline. Lead also helped lubricate the valve seats. But lead is bad, bad, bad. Or so we are told. So they put in other stuff that does not work as good. Now that other stuff is getting into our water supply. Do you think maybe the cure is worse then the disease ?

Because of this octane thing, it is always a good idea to try different brands and/or grades ( regular, hi test, premium, etc. ) of gas, especially if pinging is a problem. I can think of at least one bike ( the old, old Honda 50's ) that ran better on low octane, regular gas. Oh yes, most of those oxygenated fuels are just gas with up to 10% or so alcohol added. Alcohol can damage carb bodies and rubber parts in older machines. However, it is good to take moisture ( water ) out of the fuel system.

Do I dare mention "ethenol"
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 ;)
Should I have just posted the links?
 

Revlis

Re-Recycled, Busa-Less...
Donating Member
Registered
SWEET, WWJD!!
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Thanks for the good information, still may not be definitive answer to the Fuel grade question but it certainly should help us be better informed about the decisions we make. Nice work and thanks for taking the time to post this stuff...

Keith
 

mikeyusf

Registered
all the scientific reasoning is sure interesting, but here is why I decide to run 93 octane-

I own a Grand Marquis V8, and when I give it full throttle with 87 octane, the engine makes noise, like a rattling noise. when I give it full throttle with 93 octane, it pulls smoother and doesnt make noise.

My idiot brain conclusion? Under hard acceleration, 93 octane appears to be better for my grand marquis. So, it "might" be better for my busa.

Also, another theory would be that because 93 octane gas is more expensive, maybe the gas companies filter/refine this gas a little more before selling it. As in, they put more "care" into the gas. I have seen gas stations, especially the Farm Stores on Sheridan Street in Ft Lauderdale, FL water down their 87 octane. It happened to a friend when he filled up his boat there, and it happened to me when I filled up a rental car with gas there. I almost had to get the thing towed!

93 works awesome for me. It runs cool, it pulls hard, and I have had zero problems. Unless I have see one hell of a test, done by experts in the field, I'll probably never switch. Some hack-job black and white text webpage is tough to convince me otherwise

Mike
 



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