I have questions,maybe you have answers. George Floyd & Karma

[rd99]

The sentence below contradicts itself. You say you disagree but add that both parties have changed. Which is it, from your POV?

”As far as the parties switching ideology,I would disagree,both parties have changed”

No contradiction,I disagree that the Democrats and Republicans have switched ideologies.In fact it appears the Democrat leadership is changing their ideology depending on the direction of the wind

 

[Mr Brown]

The post was not about slavery,I was trying to point out the irony of protestors tearing down the statue of a great man who was a former slave.
As far as the parties switching ideology,I would disagree,both parties have changed.

It's not a matter of agreeing or disagreeing, it's a matter of documented fact. The stated platforms of each party changed between the end of the Civil War and the 1930's so that they effectively reversed their respective positions. Why this happened is debatable, but that it occurred is not.

 

[Mr Brown]

As an example, in the 1800's the democratic party was the champion of smaller federal government, (that's how the term "state's rights" became synonymous with slavery and segregation) but that has obviously changed.

 

[Red05]

Ideology. What a concept. I think the problem is everyone's so entrenched in their chosen party's "ideologies" no one notices both arguments have merits. The problem is no one is willing to vote for leadership like that.
I remember when I was young listening to candidates without comprehending the party concept; making decisions in my mind based on people, like we do in choosing friends in our personal lives.

 

[Mr Brown]

Ideology. What a concept. I think the problem is everyone's so entrenched in their chosen party's "ideologies" no one notices both arguments have merits. The problem is no one is willing to vote for leadership like that.
I remember when I was young listening to candidates without comprehending the party concept; making decisions in my mind based on people, like we do in choosing friends in our personal lives.

You could not be more wrong about the problem being ideology. That's what underpins each party's position on specific issues. In a two party oppositional system like we have here, if one party is in favor of an issue (pick one, it doesn't matter) the other has to oppose it in order to attract voters. What we have seen in the last 15 years is an amplification of these positions to the extent that it becomes ridiculous. Combine that with massive disinformation, the vilification of compromise, disparagement of education, manufacturing fear of professional government, and removal of campaign finance restrictions and here we are.
I do agree that both sides have positions with merit though.

 

[fallenarch]

"I am a Republican,a black,dyed in the wool Republican,and I never intend to belong to any other party than the party of freedom and progress." -Fredrick Douglass

Perhaps that is why his statue was torn down by the mob,,,,,,,,,,it's a good thing to know your history before you attempt to destroy it.

Frederick Douglass - Wikipedia

Careful on being a Google Historian, Lol! First of all most blacks got the right to vote through emancipation. Emancipation came from Lincoln, who was of course a republican. Blacks stayed aligned with the republican party until they began moving over with the New Deal and finally were solid Democrats with Johnson's push for civil rights.

No modern republican would find much to agree with in Fredrick Douglass, as he was the leading political leader of his time for black interests and was not above protesting for Black issues.

It's a good thing to know your history before you quote it.

In my personal opinion, they should only remove the statues of traitors, symbols of oppression and statues erected as an act of terror. Unfortunately a mob is usually not prone to thoughtful, surgical strikes.

 

[busabobh]

I don’t think any of the statues need be removed, good or bad , still part of our history. It might be lessons learned, and removing them changes nothing.

 

[rd99]

Careful on being a Google Historian, Lol! First of all most blacks got the right to vote through emancipation. Emancipation came from Lincoln, who was of course a republican. Blacks stayed aligned with the republican party until they began moving over with the New Deal and finally were solid Democrats with Johnson's push for civil rights.

No modern republican would find much to agree with in Fredrick Douglass, as he was the leading political leader of his time for black interests and was not above protesting for Black issues.

It's a good thing to know your history before you quote it.

In my personal opinion, they should only remove the statues of traitors, symbols of oppression and statues erected as an act of terror. Unfortunately a mob is usually not prone to thoughtful, surgical strikes.

I will take that with a grain of salt from a fellow "Google Historian".......any way,I'm a DuckDuckGo historian.
And if Douglass was living today he would make a fine Senator,and fellow Republican.

Very true about the mob.........individual thought is thrown right out the window.

 

[WuzzaCBXRider]

I don’t think any of the statues need be removed, good or bad , still part of our history. It might be lessons learned, and removing them changes nothing.

The actions of those represented in statues is history. No reason to immortalize them in a statue. Anyone interested can read volumes about them. My grandkids should not have to ask why there’s a monument to a slave holder or a person that fought against the United States.

 

[fallenarch]

I will take that with a grain of salt from a fellow "Google Historian".......any way,I'm a DuckDuckGo historian.
And if Douglass was living today he would make a fine Senator,and fellow Republican.

Very true about the mob.........individual thought is thrown right out the window.

Your President thought he was alive today. Just saying!

 

[fallenarch]

I don’t think any of the statues need be removed, good or bad , still part of our history. It might be lessons learned, and removing them changes nothing.

Your reasoning is based on a mistaken assumption. Many of the Confederate monuments were not erected to mark historical events or figures. They were erected to signal WS. Those are facts not my opinion. Those should be removed.

 

[Mythos]

...and here's a nut...I wonder what any of the 2nd War vets would think of having such a flag flying in the country they fought for...???

Woman shot 4 times after snatching boogerface flag from man’s yard in Oklahoma

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/worl...-s-yard-in-oklahoma/ar-BB169XlE?ocid=msedgntp

I don't think shooting someone for snatching his flag was to swift but it's (was) his right to fly whatever flag he wants. Fly a Pride flag, fly a don't tread on me, fly a confederate. It's just ideas and it can't make anyone do anything. Freedom of expression.

I guess boogerface means snotsi on here?

Yeah. The forum won't let you post the word notC.

 

[Mythos]

I don't know who's idea it was to substitute boogerface.

 

[WuzzaCBXRider]

I don't think shooting someone for snatching his flag was to swift but it's (was) his right to fly whatever flag he wants. Fly a Pride flag, fly a don't tread on me, fly a confederate. It's just ideas and it can't make anyone do anything. Freedom of expression.



Yeah. The forum won't let you post the word notC.

So, you don’t think attempted murder for petty theft was “to swift” eh? WTH do you mean by adding, “but” afterwards?

 

[Bumblebee]

I don't think shooting someone for snatching his flag was to swift but it's (was) his right to fly whatever flag he wants. Fly a Pride flag, fly a don't tread on me, fly a confederate. It's just ideas and it can't make anyone do anything. Freedom of expression.

Flying something like that is beyond 'freedom of expression' in my opinion...the regime it represents is not something to be revered or remembered especially in a country which gave so much to stop it. There should definitely be a law against these types of flags being flown. There are laws surrounding the American flag.

Flags which represent evil and oppression is a far cry from a flag which represents people who are oppressed such as a 'pride flag.'

 

[Red05]

You could not be more wrong about the problem being ideology. That's what underpins each party's position on specific issues. In a two party oppositional system like we have here, if one party is in favor of an issue (pick one, it doesn't matter) the other has to oppose it in order to attract voters. What we have seen in the last 15 years is an amplification of these positions to the extent that it becomes ridiculous.

I might be wrong but my point is that ideology was always destined for what has happened in the last 15 or 20 years.

 

[WuzzaCBXRider]

I might be wrong but my point is that ideology was always destined for what has happened in the last 15 or 20 years.

Huh?

 

[Kiwi Rider]

Huh?

I think he was trying to say that Hayabusas are very fast bikes.

 

[TallTom]

Those are facts not my opinion. Those should be removed.

No it is your opinion. We form our own opinions about what they mean to us, based on various influences in our life. Formal education is a component of it. If you got taught in your school system, that they mean WS, then you are being taught racism. If whites are taught in school they represent WS, then that is teaching racism. I was never taught by any measure of my education I received that these statues represent WS. They didn't teach us anything at all about them.

Outside of formal education, I'm sure for some white people that want to allow them to stand for WS, they will. Take them down and they will find something else to find as symbols for it. Blacks who want to find symbols of WS and race, will also find it anywhere they want to. Syrup, Rice, etc.

Flying a confederate flag is no different than an African American flying an African flag. If one is allowed to fly and the other is not, tensions will not get better. If that AA flies it to represent their history or culture or whatever reason, it should be tolerated as much a confederate flag doing the same.

 

[Mr Brown]

I might be wrong but my point is that ideology was always destined for what has happened in the last 15 or 20 years.

I get your point, I just don't agree with it. Ideology is important I think, it's the extremes to which people take their beliefs that trouble me.