I did some Top Speed runs today...

[BulletTrain]

Sometimes you open your mouth Bullet, and it's obvious your outta your depth. Talk to me when you have TOPPED SOMETHING OUT.... ANYTHING.... EVEN ONCE for FUGS Sake....

So it magically gets easier when you TOP SOMETHING OUT ass opposed to just hittin' 170+ indicated?

Ummm, yeah...

I don't know the circumstances surrounding your high speed runs but the handful of spots around here that I've found suitable for insane speeds are not perfect or magical. I'd imagine such a perfect location is the exception rather than the rule most anywhere.

On the 172 indicated run on the 10 all was well and ANYONE who is physically able to climb on a bike and ride could have handled it. Then I hit a clearing and a gust of wind moved the bike several feet toward the right of the road before I could react enough to stop the sideways movement. If I hadn't experienced wind gusts before and developed the skills necessary to deal with it I very well might have went into panic and died that day.

By no means am I claiming to be some super skilled muthafugger but that ride (and other high speed runs I've made on the busa) required skills above twistin' the throttle to the stop and not fallin' off the back of the bike, man. I don't have to TOP SOMETHING OUT to know that runnin' those types of speed ain't for anybody that can twist their right wrist and hold it wide open.

Maybe I'm missin' somethin' but I don't see how doin' an all out top speed run changes fuggin' facts and makes it easier than just hittin' 170 indicated. Maybe you can fill my "out of depth" arse in and explain that to me.

I don't know if the way I replied pissed you off or what, but I think you're a little out of line here... It's all good, but seriously man, why would Ninja Eater agree with me in the other thread if I was off base on this? Do ya think he needs to come back and talk when he's done more speed?

 

[Lucky34]

Got-Busa, I was looking mostly through the screen

 

[Lucky34]

Also, guys... Calm down a little. It doesnt matter who says it's easy or hard, or whether it takes skill or not. Bottom line is, you do it cause it's fun, and you do it as long as you feel "safe". I could understand why some people say it's easy. Some runs ARE easier than others. But BT's right. When you get an unexpected gust of wind, or (in my case the DARN jacket), or you realize that you are going 180+mph blind... cause you can't really see the road... THEN you feel like it's not as easy as "twisting the throttle" in a video game in your living room... Either way, the more you do it, the more practice you get, the easier it'll be. Especially when you have a board as great as this where you can discuss these things and get good advice from veterans who've been there

. I don't know when I'm going to try top speed runs again, but when I do, I'm definitely gonna use some of the advice I got here.

 

[Revlis]

Nope, I'll stick to my initial position. What Ninja Eater is discussing is Technique, not skill.

Techniques are what will get you that 1-2 mph increase on a run, not skill.

Am I pissed??? Not really but you said I am "Full Of ShiD" and that irritates me cause you have no experiance with it. Your out of your Tree... You never topped out the Train and any experiance on a ZX10 is irrelevant for the most part. You talk about an indicated 170 something on the Demon, You know that equates to 150-160 just like the Busa...

If your having all sorts of troubles topping out your ride, or it gets too scary at 170 indicated I will say your doing something wrong. Holding on too tight, not getting out of the wind effectively, or running on a crappy road.

I think there is a lot of "HIGH SPEED EGO" involved with the TOP SPEED runs, A mythical pile of Hooee. You get over your fear, your pretty much good to go....

NOW, TOP SPEED OVER A MILE? or 9/10ths? THAT Takes real skill, real riding ability. Maxton? Huge balls, 250+ in a mile??? That's impressive and NOT something any idiot can do. But achieving terminal velocity over a LOOOOOOooOOOOONG streatch of empty road? Dead simple... Any Monkey can do it...

 

[Twister NOS]

Busaman86,  Any idiot can twist the throttle and go fast.  There is almost NOTHING related to skill needed.  

 Yeah I said it.  Cause it really is true.  Given enough time we could easily train a chimp to go fast in a straight line.  

Squeeking every last bit of MPH out of the Busa will take some fiddling, but it still takes very little riding skill...  The only time skill or experiance will come into play is if something goes horribly wrong at those speeds.

It's official... yer full of ####...

Sometimes you open your mouth Bullet, and it's obvious your outta your depth.  Talk to me when you have TOPPED SOMETHING OUT.... ANYTHING....  EVEN ONCE for FUGS Sake....  


<span style='color:red'>BusaMan86</span>...  I wouldn't be talking SO MUCH #### if I hadn't been there many times myself.  There is a perfect venue for such behaviour up here...  Hell Maybe I am missing something, maybe the road I run is Magic...  But I have found OVER AND OVER that topping out the Busa is pretty damned easy.  NO DRAMA,  Just takes some nerve....  I would say if your feeling like you have to fight your Busa along you in fact need to RELAX a bit, sounds like your actually interfering with your bikes stability...  Holding on too tight.  At those speeds it'll ride itself better without you, it doesn't need your help it has little use for you except holding open that throttle...


So NOT BAGGIN ON YOU BUSAMAN,  

 I'm just saying that I have been there many times, and it's been my experiance that it really is just that easy...  At least on a Busa....  Sounds like you had a good time, and that you have a good place for it...

Have to chime in here.... If the argument is going fast requires skill, then I am sorry, it doesn't. But where the skill comes into play is the fact that Busaman is topping out, in a "safe" and controlled manner minimizing the chance for a mistake to occur that would affect him, or more importantly, others. I am around idiots in So. Fla sometimes that do not deserve a bike, because they "can" go fast. I can go fast, and infact, I believe that I possess the skill to top out my bike in a safe manner. Much of the skill I believe is common sense, but I know several that do not possess this! BTW, skill isn't necessarily doing something... Many times it is knowing when not to do it.

 

[BulletTrain]

Nope, I'll stick to my initial position. What Ninja Eater is discussing is Technique, not skill.

Techniques are what will get you that 1-2 mph increase on a run, not skill.

Am I pissed??? Not really but you said I am "Full Of ShiD" and that irritates me cause you have no experiance with it. Your out of your Tree... You never topped out the Train and any experiance on a ZX10 is irrelevant for the most part. You talk about an indicated 170 something on the Demon, You know that equates to 150-160 just like the Busa...

If your having all sorts of troubles topping out your ride, or it gets too scary at 170 indicated I will say your doing something wrong. Holding on too tight, not getting out of the wind effectively, or running on a crappy road.

I think there is a lot of "HIGH SPEED EGO" involved with the TOP SPEED runs, A mythical pile of Hooee. You get over your fear, your pretty much good to go....

NOW, TOP SPEED OVER A MILE? or 9/10ths? THAT Takes real skill, real riding ability. Maxton? Huge balls, 250+ in a mile??? That's impressive and NOT something any idiot can do. But achieving terminal velocity over a LOOOOOOooOOOOONG streatch of empty road? Dead simple... Any Monkey can do it...

The only "trouble" I've had toppin' out my bikes is findin' a suitable place as far as traffic, enough room, etc... There's no fear involved in my case. Given the right place and the right circumstances you can bet yer ass I'd hold it till it stops pullin'.

As for the rest of this conversation here's the definition of skill quoted (partially... didn't include the obsolete definition or the pronounciation shid from Merriam-Webster online because it was not relevant to the discussion)...

2 a : the ability to use one's knowledge effectively and readily in execution or performance b : dexterity or coordination especially in the execution of learned physical tasks
3 : a learned power of doing something competently : a developed aptitude or ability[/QUOTE]


Emphasis (bold/italics) on 3: is mine...

Now go back and read my post again. I specifically said that it takes skill to "competently" ride at those speeds. So yeah, you're right. Twistin' the throttle wide open and just goin' along for the ride where ever it might go until it stops pullin' only requires technique and a LOT of luck. However, as I said before, *competently* ridin' at those speeds takes skill.

We're down to tecnhicalities and word play now. Fact is we're both right. It takes nothin' more than the ability to climb on and pin the throttle (a technique) to achieve top speed. However, to deal with the nature of ridin' that fast and be able to rely on more than luck to keep you alive you've gotta develope and use some sort of high speed ridin' skills.

My point was never that only a select few can technically do it. My point is that although any newbie could jump on a busa and hold it until it stops pullin' it's not wise to just jump off the deep end and do it without workin' their way up and developing some high speed riding skills before they fall back on the twist and hold on technique and do a "top speed run".

Are you sayin' that you don't have a problem with givin' a newbie the impression that it's so simple that there's no reason they shouldn't run out and try it on the first suitable road they find?

 

[Revlis]

I just cannot believe you continue to hang your shid out in the breeze Bro... And tell me I am full of Shid...

 

[Revlis]

Busaman86,  Any idiot can twist the throttle and go fast.  There is almost NOTHING related to skill needed.  

 Yeah I said it.  Cause it really is true.  Given enough time we could easily train a chimp to go fast in a straight line.  

Squeeking every last bit of MPH out of the Busa will take some fiddling, but it still takes very little riding skill...  The only time skill or experiance will come into play is if something goes horribly wrong at those speeds.

It's official... yer full of ####...

Sometimes you open your mouth Bullet, and it's obvious your outta your depth.  Talk to me when you have TOPPED SOMETHING OUT.... ANYTHING....  EVEN ONCE for FUGS Sake....  


<span style='color:red'>BusaMan86</span>...  I wouldn't be talking SO MUCH #### if I hadn't been there many times myself.  There is a perfect venue for such behaviour up here...  Hell Maybe I am missing something, maybe the road I run is Magic...  But I have found OVER AND OVER that topping out the Busa is pretty damned easy.  NO DRAMA,  Just takes some nerve....  I would say if your feeling like you have to fight your Busa along you in fact need to RELAX a bit, sounds like your actually interfering with your bikes stability...  Holding on too tight.  At those speeds it'll ride itself better without you, it doesn't need your help it has little use for you except holding open that throttle...


So NOT BAGGIN ON YOU BUSAMAN,  

 I'm just saying that I have been there many times, and it's been my experiance that it really is just that easy...  At least on a Busa....  Sounds like you had a good time, and that you have a good place for it...

Have to chime in here.... If the argument is going fast requires skill, then I am sorry, it doesn't.  But where the skill comes into play is the fact that Busaman is topping out, in a "safe" and controlled manner minimizing the chance for a mistake to occur that would affect him, or more importantly, others.  I am around idiots in So. Fla sometimes that do not deserve a bike, because they "can" go fast.  I can go fast, and infact, I believe that I possess the skill to top out my bike in a safe manner.  Much of the skill I believe is common sense, but I know several that do not possess this!  BTW, skill isn't necessarily doing something... Many times it is knowing when not to do it.

I do think that there is something to knowing when and where... I know some bucketheads here in Tampa that seem to think ANY venue is the right venue.

Does this equate to a lack of skill? Or does knowing the right venue mean your skilled? No. But certainly intelligence does come into play.

Maybe just having a feel for your bike and understanding what it needs or what it's doing is all that is required. Maybe this is the SKILL that is being argued... I dunno... I still do not see any special skill being required... Basic bike control and the proper venue.

 

[BulletTrain]

I just cannot believe you continue to hang your shid out in the breeze Bro... And tell me I am full of Shid...

Ok, whatever. I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one...

 

[Lucky34]

c'mon guys... shake hands

and go ride

 

[BulletTrain]

c'mon guys... shake hands

and go ride

It's all good on my end man. I just don't agree with his logic on this one. The world will continue to turn.

 

[monsterspeedfreak]

Is this another one of the Revlit jokes like the one you two pulled a while back??

 

[monsterspeedfreak]

Nice report BM.
Weird that you could only hit 183 even with a TRE.
That bike should go a little more, is yer gearing changed??
Oh yeah, after spending many runs to the abslolute limit of my 99 (no I haven't gps'd), I gotta say that it does require a bit more than just wackin the throttle open and shifting gears, it requires a huge set of balls, anyone that tells ya otherwise has not been there!!!
Doin 160 or so is no big deal at all, once ya hit near 180 and yer helmet starts tuggin on yer head till yer dizzy, (problem with stock screen) that's when ya know yer covering ground.
Rev...buddy.....don't discount what it takes to pull speeds like this, it's not cake bro!!

 

[Twister NOS]

Busaman86,  Any idiot can twist the throttle and go fast.  There is almost NOTHING related to skill needed.  

 Yeah I said it.  Cause it really is true.  Given enough time we could easily train a chimp to go fast in a straight line.  

Squeeking every last bit of MPH out of the Busa will take some fiddling, but it still takes very little riding skill...  The only time skill or experiance will come into play is if something goes horribly wrong at those speeds.

It's official... yer full of ####...

Sometimes you open your mouth Bullet, and it's obvious your outta your depth.  Talk to me when you have TOPPED SOMETHING OUT.... ANYTHING....  EVEN ONCE for FUGS Sake....  


<span style='color:red'>BusaMan86</span>...  I wouldn't be talking SO MUCH #### if I hadn't been there many times myself.  There is a perfect venue for such behaviour up here...  Hell Maybe I am missing something, maybe the road I run is Magic...  But I have found OVER AND OVER that topping out the Busa is pretty damned easy.  NO DRAMA,  Just takes some nerve....  I would say if your feeling like you have to fight your Busa along you in fact need to RELAX a bit, sounds like your actually interfering with your bikes stability...  Holding on too tight.  At those speeds it'll ride itself better without you, it doesn't need your help it has little use for you except holding open that throttle...


So NOT BAGGIN ON YOU BUSAMAN,  

 I'm just saying that I have been there many times, and it's been my experiance that it really is just that easy...  At least on a Busa....  Sounds like you had a good time, and that you have a good place for it...

Have to chime in here.... If the argument is going fast requires skill, then I am sorry, it doesn't.  But where the skill comes into play is the fact that Busaman is topping out, in a "safe" and controlled manner minimizing the chance for a mistake to occur that would affect him, or more importantly, others.  I am around idiots in So. Fla sometimes that do not deserve a bike, because they "can" go fast.  I can go fast, and infact, I believe that I possess the skill to top out my bike in a safe manner.  Much of the skill I believe is common sense, but I know several that do not possess this!  BTW, skill isn't necessarily doing something... Many times it is knowing when not to do it.

I do think that there is something to knowing when and where...  I know some bucketheads here in Tampa that seem to think ANY venue is the right venue.  

Does this equate to a lack of skill?  Or does knowing the right venue mean your skilled?  No. But certainly intelligence does come into play.

Maybe just having a feel for your bike and understanding what it needs or what it's doing is all that is required.  Maybe this is the SKILL that is being argued...  I dunno...  I still do not see any special skill being required... Basic bike control and the proper venue.

Going to have to give you a ring next time I am in the Tampa area! Have to find some good riding spots up there. So. Fla is getting too straight!

 

[BulletTrain]

Is this another one of the Revlit jokes like the one you two pulled a while back??

Nope... unless I wasn't let in on the joke...

 

[Revlis]

 Well, we have some roads up here that are nice and twisty.  Best part is the good people Tampa has to go share them with, lots and lots of sportbikes ridden pretty well.
------------------------------------------------

OK bottom line regarding the Topspeed thing IMO anyway... On my other bikes I never NEVER topped out the 750, I dunno what it would do, but at about 140 or so indicated it was WAY too twitchy/flighty to be entertaining.  It went from exciting to frightening too easily.  The 1100 raised that bar considerably but I still never Ran it till it quit, just didn't "feel" good.  The Busa though...  

MikeyUSF took me out after I had the Busa for about a month, we ran one direction at a leisurely 160 or so indicated.  Then returned the other direction at max throttle for about 4 miles or so.  I backed off after the peg was buried for a mile or so due to traffic and never hit any limit, didn't top out.  It wasn't until about a month later out there solo that I actually topped her and rode a farting Busa for prolly 10-20 seconds, or about a mile I guess.   It was uneventful, it was an amazing RUSH, but it wasn't a High Drama affair.  Bike was stable, and totally planted, there was no drifting, no weird vibes, just felt like I was welded to the road.   Only problem I had was trying to keep my helmet on and visiblity was kinda fugged due to my fighting with my lid trying to keep my head down, created alot of head buffeting that made the world go all buzzy.  

I have since been there several times with company and without, One night with Raider, RC51, GJoker, TKM, and Longbow.  Well they were behind me anyway....

 Maybe it is the Venue, maybe it is just that perfect.  But out of a Dozen or so runs, (knock on wood) I have not had any real drama yet.  Nothing.    

I don't consider myself  gifted, all I do is roll it to the stop, ass back against the hump, knees and feet in tight to the frame, elbows tucked in, Chin on the tank, and relax and breath...  Does it take BALLS?  Sure, but no special heroics, and like I have been saying, I do not believe I am utilizing ANY special skills...  Relax, GRIP IT... And RIP IT...  

Only weirdness I have to report is a serious rush of Hot Air across my shins at around 170 indicated and it continues until I slow back down.  My best guess is that the trailing edges of the fairing pull away from the frame and hot air is escaping straight back onto me instead of being carried around by the fairing.  First time I felt that I slowed quickly cause it sorta felt like hot coolant almost... Well enough like it cause me a second thought.

So I will still stand by my position, maybe refining it just a bit, topping out a stock HAYABUSA doesn't require any special skill just the proper venue. Competancy is important sure, but don't hold any illusions that if something goes horrible wrong (Wheel Failure, tire failure) that any amount of skill is going to save your ass... Chances are your going to eat it. May not buy the farm, but your going to feel it for awhile.

 

[Revlis]

Nice report BM.
Weird that you could only hit 183 even with a TRE.
That bike should go a little more, is yer gearing changed??
Oh yeah, after spending many runs to the abslolute limit of my 99 (no I haven't gps'd), I gotta say that it does require a bit more than just wackin the throttle open and shifting gears, it requires a huge set of balls, anyone that tells ya otherwise has not been there!!!
Doin 160 or so is no big deal at all, once ya hit near 180 and yer helmet starts tuggin on yer head till yer dizzy, (problem with stock screen) that's when ya know yer covering ground.
Rev...buddy.....don't discount what it takes to pull speeds like this, it's not cake bro!!

Seriously, I really wouldn't be talking so much if I hadn't been there Bro. NO I do not have the High Speed bug like The Eater, but I have been to end of what my ride will give me prolly about 10-12 times since about June 2003. It is a HUGE fuggin rush... But to me it's a BAD rush. It's the Rush that hits AFTER the Run, it's the survival rush, kinda tha close-call rush, and not really my thing.

I am thinking that Busaman got a best of 183MPH because of Air Temps. Just a guess, I wasn't there, but I am willing to bet out in the swamp it was very Humid, and prolly pretty warm.

I also know from what I have read that every little Aero Cheat you can get helps. So if your jacket is flapping, or your toes are down, etc it'll effect your ultimate top end. Ability to get UNDER the PAINT is critical.

Ninja Eater mentioned a long time ago that running without the little belly fairing costs you about 5mph. So obviously every little bit helps.

I'll bet that if Busaman runs at night, once it's about 55-60deg out on a night when the humidity is low, he'd see Better MPH.

SO, I am not discounting that running at the TOP end doesn't take some technique, but I am saying that it doesn't require "SPECIAL" skills. Merely being a competant rider in the right place should do it. OH and it takes Balls sure, but try saying that without sounded like a dipshid... "I got's Huge Nuts, so Topping out my Busa is Easy!" Now that sounds really silly, and isn't what I am trying to get at...

 

[paineless4u]

Busaman86,  Any idiot can twist the throttle and go fast.  There is almost NOTHING related to skill needed.  

 Yeah I said it.  Cause it really is true.  Given enough time we could easily train a chimp to go fast in a straight line.  

Squeeking every last bit of MPH out of the Busa will take some fiddling, but it still takes very little riding skill...  The only time skill or experiance will come into play is if something goes horribly wrong at those speeds.

It's official... yer full of ####...

Sometimes you open your mouth Bullet, and it's obvious your outta your depth.  Talk to me when you have TOPPED SOMETHING OUT.... ANYTHING....  EVEN ONCE for FUGS Sake....  


<span style='color:red'>BusaMan86</span>...  I wouldn't be talking SO MUCH #### if I hadn't been there many times myself.  There is a perfect venue for such behaviour up here...  Hell Maybe I am missing something, maybe the road I run is Magic...  But I have found OVER AND OVER that topping out the Busa is pretty damned easy.  NO DRAMA,  Just takes some nerve....  I would say if your feeling like you have to fight your Busa along you in fact need to RELAX a bit, sounds like your actually interfering with your bikes stability...  Holding on too tight.  At those speeds it'll ride itself better without you, it doesn't need your help it has little use for you except holding open that throttle...


So NOT BAGGIN ON YOU BUSAMAN,  

 I'm just saying that I have been there many times, and it's been my experiance that it really is just that easy...  At least on a Busa....  Sounds like you had a good time, and that you have a good place for it...

Sounds like your Baggin on him to me? Anyway I did 178 indicated yesterday and it was pretty fun but even on the autobahn you need no cars or curves and the cross wind can be deadly. I don't necessarily think it takes a bunch of skill but it does take some balls to hold the throttle twisted for that long. I'd like to do it in a 1/4 mile if I could. Maybe if I ever get a turbo I can certainly try

 

[MET]

The skill is not in the twist of the throttle but all of the things mentioned above. Clean runs, timing, keeping the bike safe, and the higher you go the more things that you need to watch. Again thee is a big diffence between 168-185mph indicated and 185-200 actual.

I think the main point eveyone who has done it is saying, we are not Magic Men lots of others can do it, but should they? Not many (based on percentages) have done 200mph (actual)

 

[PaceMaster]

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