Damn Fallen, a 13W foot, you need HD floor boards on your busa.
How far can you lean?
- Thread starter fallenarch
- Start date
Yes, you CAN drag a stock can I've seen it done, along with your peg feelers off. But when you start dragging the can, you need to rethink your body position a little.
P.S. BT016's are a decent trackday tire, about comparable to the Q2 but more expensive, and yes you are going to grind them up on the track. The Q2/3 is cheaper and the grip is a little better and TEAM GIXXER approved!
P.S. BT016's are a decent trackday tire, about comparable to the Q2 but more expensive, and yes you are going to grind them up on the track. The Q2/3 is cheaper and the grip is a little better and TEAM GIXXER approved!
Morning Arch!
Good thread you have going here Buster! What I have learned over the past decade or more I have been on this forum is that most riders that buy a busa are far more interested in upgrading the visual appearance of their ride than upgrading their skills. Some will spend thousands to add Ohlin's to the undercarriage and brembo stickers to the brakes yet refuse to spend a single dime on improving the nut between the bars. No one can buy skill, it must be earned. The maximum performance of a busa directly off the showroom floor is far beyond the reach of all but a minute few.
So, the best advise I can pass on to you and others is to invest in training. Not simply track time but real life training through an upper level instructor. If you are dead set on improving the performance of your bike, the best way is not through replacing hard parts to the bike. Simply put a better rider on it!
When I had my first training session with an instructor, I was an absolute mess and so are you. We all learn to ride and we develop habits that aren't in our best interest. We ALL do, no exceptions. It takes someone who can break your riding down into small segments and fix them one at a time to elevate you to going fast without your heart beating fast.
As far as lean angle goes, it's all relevant to our skill level. Pashnit shows us that dragging a knee is not difficult at 30 degrees of lean. Just put your puck on the point of your knee instead of on the side where it belongs, slide your bum off as far as you can without loosing contact with the outside footpeg, poke the leg out as far as possible until it looks like a chicken wing and bingo "Knee down". Once the bike reaches about 45 degrees you can keep the foot flat on the peg and point the knee forward. For me, the knee puck is nothing more than a feeler gauge to determine lean angle.
Below is an example of where your knee puck should be and what it should look like when you take lean angle seriously. I'm on a stock bike with nothing more than OEM suspension except for the shock. The shock spring is heavier than stock and the valving is upgraded. I take lots of two-up rides at the track and shock in OEM form was overwhelmed with me and a 250 lb passenger.
I take notice to knee pucks when I have a new student. And believe it or not I can get a pretty good idea of the skill level by where his knee puck is located and at what angle its ground off. The knee puck is not an actual indicator of speed but it is a good indicator of lean angle. I have students that pay me handsomely to get their knee down. Most of the time, I get that accomplished for them in one track day. I only do that if their one and only goal is to skinup their knee puck. Now I've said all that to say this Arch, don't get caught up on dragging your knee. The knee puck should be a result of elevated skills not goal.
I am very proud of you for stepping up the goal and engaging in a track day. Hopefully, this was only the beginning of a journey to reach a higher level of riding!
Good thread you have going here Buster! What I have learned over the past decade or more I have been on this forum is that most riders that buy a busa are far more interested in upgrading the visual appearance of their ride than upgrading their skills. Some will spend thousands to add Ohlin's to the undercarriage and brembo stickers to the brakes yet refuse to spend a single dime on improving the nut between the bars. No one can buy skill, it must be earned. The maximum performance of a busa directly off the showroom floor is far beyond the reach of all but a minute few.
So, the best advise I can pass on to you and others is to invest in training. Not simply track time but real life training through an upper level instructor. If you are dead set on improving the performance of your bike, the best way is not through replacing hard parts to the bike. Simply put a better rider on it!
When I had my first training session with an instructor, I was an absolute mess and so are you. We all learn to ride and we develop habits that aren't in our best interest. We ALL do, no exceptions. It takes someone who can break your riding down into small segments and fix them one at a time to elevate you to going fast without your heart beating fast. As far as lean angle goes, it's all relevant to our skill level. Pashnit shows us that dragging a knee is not difficult at 30 degrees of lean. Just put your puck on the point of your knee instead of on the side where it belongs, slide your bum off as far as you can without loosing contact with the outside footpeg, poke the leg out as far as possible until it looks like a chicken wing and bingo "Knee down". Once the bike reaches about 45 degrees you can keep the foot flat on the peg and point the knee forward. For me, the knee puck is nothing more than a feeler gauge to determine lean angle.
Below is an example of where your knee puck should be and what it should look like when you take lean angle seriously. I'm on a stock bike with nothing more than OEM suspension except for the shock. The shock spring is heavier than stock and the valving is upgraded. I take lots of two-up rides at the track and shock in OEM form was overwhelmed with me and a 250 lb passenger.
I take notice to knee pucks when I have a new student. And believe it or not I can get a pretty good idea of the skill level by where his knee puck is located and at what angle its ground off. The knee puck is not an actual indicator of speed but it is a good indicator of lean angle. I have students that pay me handsomely to get their knee down. Most of the time, I get that accomplished for them in one track day. I only do that if their one and only goal is to skinup their knee puck. Now I've said all that to say this Arch, don't get caught up on dragging your knee. The knee puck should be a result of elevated skills not goal.
I am very proud of you for stepping up the goal and engaging in a track day. Hopefully, this was only the beginning of a journey to reach a higher level of riding!
John McGuinness said that he only changes knee pucks because the manufacturers buy ads on them. He said he rarely touches down. It happens but it's not "the way he corners". I am planning to doe the Art levels 2 & 3this year. When I do the level 3 I am going to get a personal coach for Sunday. I have had a strange reaction to the track. On the one hand I don't get why people want to be the fastest? They aren't racing and they aren't going to be a pro racer so what's up with that? On the other hand, I can't wait to get out there and tear it up again. I was surprised at how I had body position totally wrong, so now I'm like what else am I doing wrong?
Most people are afraid of extreme leans and its because it's counter intuitive that a tire can grip at a lean. This demonstration (which was done by the track coach) really changes your level of confidence with the lean angles you get to on a track. If you do this yourself you will be amazed at how hard it is to scrub a tire on the road, it literally won't budge. Of course the forces on the tire are more with a bike and power on it, but this demonstration will get rid of that fear that lingers in the back of every novices' mind.
Personally I went from wondering in a turn if the tire is going to hold to just focusing on body position and getting the bike to the proper equilibrium balancing throttle and lean to hit the proper lines on the track.
I was just passing it on.
Hell, every time I go into a turn (but especially in 5-6 at Barber) (even with slicks) I'm thinking "oh..Plllleeease hold.."
There is so much that dictates when a tire will hold in a given corner (lean angle, speed, on or off gas, heat, surface, etc.) that there's always some gamble....I'd say keeping conscious of it, while not letting it master you, just means you have some survival instinct - and that's a GOOD thing.
There is so much that dictates when a tire will hold in a given corner (lean angle, speed, on or off gas, heat, surface, etc.) that there's always some gamble....I'd say keeping conscious of it, while not letting it master you, just means you have some survival instinct - and that's a GOOD thing.
What people fear Arch is the unknown, eh? The brain has no experience to rely on when the lean angle passes the point of what it's experienced in the past. That's where the anxiety level begins to increase and the heart rate goes up and that is the final step before panic sets in. Taking a rider on a two up ride where lean angles exceed anything they have experienced in the past gives them confidence that they really can lean that far without dying.
I remember my first ride with Jason Pridmore at his Star School back in 03 and it was terrifying yet got me over that barrier of leaning deeper into the turn. While on the back of Jason's GSXR1K I genuinely thought we were going to crash in the first corner. We were going so flippin fast and we were deep into the brake zone and Jason was still WOT. I felt like I was Knocking on the Devil's door. Then suddenly we were exiting the corner and no harm done. Then there was the next corner and the next and so on. When I got off the bike I was very much aware that the bike was capable of much more than I was asking it to do. That two up ride was the single most important thing I have done to increase my confidence to the next level. Every time after that first near death experience with Jason, I have faithfully taken a two up ride with him every time I attend one of his schools. Now when I get on his bike there is no fear, simply excitement! Now I know exactly how street riders feel when they get on the back of my bike and I'm no where near a world class rider. What I get mostly from two up riders is how hard and deep one can brake. It pleases me to see a big huge grin after a two up ride. I had the opportunity to get on the back with Scott Russell. I said to Scott, "I'm not afraid to crash, take me for a ride". That was almost a mistake. That man carried so much brake all the way to the apex that my bum was puckered up so tight that you couldn't drive a thumbtack in that puppy with a three pound hammer. Scott is extremely impressive on the brakes. When I complimented him on his braking skills he responded "If you want to win races you have to be good on he side of the tire". That phrase stuck with me!
My point being, if you can hook up at a class that gives 2-up rides, don't turn the opportunity down. You will have a great experience that you will be talking about when you are in the old folks home
Tiller
Registered
I don't think it's as much as wanting the be the fastest (as compared to everyone else out there) but just always trying to go faster for yourself... Myself at the track, I don't care if someone out there is faster than me, but I always want my next lap to be faster than my last.... It's a DRUG!!!!
I don't think it's as much as wanting the be the fastest (as compared to everyone else out there) but just always trying to go faster for yourself... Myself at the track, I don't care if someone out there is faster than me EXCEPT FOR KEITH, but I always want my next lap to be faster than my last.... It's a DRUG!!!!
Corrected that for you Bro!
Tiller
Registered
Some of us had our days and raced track. Now it is a matter of the older I get, the faster I was. ???
I did a few rounds at Shenandoah, with Team Promotion trying to get back into this, but playing with the kids who were crashing out, inexperienced, reckless and being the "Old" responsible guy there put me back on my dirt bike. Cheaper, more fun and no damage when I crash, which happens often.
I did a few rounds at Shenandoah, with Team Promotion trying to get back into this, but playing with the kids who were crashing out, inexperienced, reckless and being the "Old" responsible guy there put me back on my dirt bike. Cheaper, more fun and no damage when I crash, which happens often.
Hot Damn, I had no idea the RugRat was a retired road racer!
Post up a few photos from your days as a racer! I'm sure I'm not the only one who would LOVE to see you in action.
Hot Damn, I had no idea the RugRat was a retired road racer!
Post up a few photos from your days as a racer! I'm sure I'm not the only one who would LOVE to see you in action.
You were still peeing your pants back then, or perhaps not born yet? Before the days of internet and digital cameras. Raced on Kyalami and a few smaller local tracks with the likes of Michael Crawford, Roy Nesbitt among a few others, who you probably do not know. Use to also help with building race bikes and do work for Porsche on track cars. The two stroke days for motorcycles. I will see what I can find, scan in and post up, there should be an album or two which traveled over the oceans to here. Stay tuned.
Of course, that depends on how nice you are.
You were still peeing your pants back then, or perhaps not born yet? Before the days of internet and digital cameras. Raced on Kyalami and a few smaller local tracks with the likes of Michael Crawford, Roy Nesbitt among a few others, who you probably do not know. Use to also help with building race bikes and do work for Porsche on track cars. The two stroke days for motorcycles. I will see what I can find, scan in and post up, there should be an album or two which traveled over the oceans to here. Stay tuned.
Of course, that depends on how nice you are.
What was your race number. I have piles of video dating back to the seventies that may very well have you in them. What organization were you racing with? If you share a little more information I can look all that stuff up. All that information is archived someplace, just a matter of finding it. PM me your full name along with your race number and if you were a serious racer at any period I'll dig that stuff up!
^^^^^^
Tuff, good luck, that was South Africa, rough time looking that up. Appreciate the eagerness though. Remember, we had "Apartheid" and you folks wanted nothing to do with us back then.
I was riding for Cargo Motors, name Willie Martins, if you scroll down to pic 102 in the link below, I was no 38. Between 20 and 22. The way things worked back then, depending which track you raced and who organized the event the race numbers would be different.
Obviously technology today is way ahead of the 70's and you guys are way ahead of where we use to be. I stopped riding in 1978 when my first child was born and put my leg over a Busa being the first time back on a sport bike in 2009.
Roy Hesketh Circuit Heritage | Motor Racing | Pietermarizburg | South Africa
Our sponsor back then, with who I have had no contact 35 years. They were also my employer and put me through college.
Mercedes-Benz Cargo Motors
Tuff, good luck, that was South Africa, rough time looking that up. Appreciate the eagerness though. Remember, we had "Apartheid" and you folks wanted nothing to do with us back then.
I was riding for Cargo Motors, name Willie Martins, if you scroll down to pic 102 in the link below, I was no 38. Between 20 and 22. The way things worked back then, depending which track you raced and who organized the event the race numbers would be different.
Obviously technology today is way ahead of the 70's and you guys are way ahead of where we use to be. I stopped riding in 1978 when my first child was born and put my leg over a Busa being the first time back on a sport bike in 2009.
Roy Hesketh Circuit Heritage | Motor Racing | Pietermarizburg | South Africa
Our sponsor back then, with who I have had no contact 35 years. They were also my employer and put me through college.
Mercedes-Benz Cargo Motors
Dam Jelly you belong in a museum! ::11 
Dam Jelly you belong in a museum! ::11
Dude, don't rub it in.
I have lower mileage than you though.
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