How do you reason with someone...

[GsxrBots]

The health care fiasco in this country NEEDS a good swift kick in the mouth.

First off, I love the Log Cabin movement.

Secondly, Health Care does need a kick in the mouth, but being Government run will only make it more expensive. We just won't see the bills all at once, and there will be nobody to call and complain about coverage..

 

[Josh]

I hear ya. I just had to put in my two cents since I HAVE insurance and still have to take off the gloves to get coverage. It's already jacked up to the point of craziness, so I'm not so afraid of losing all the fantasy fantastic awesomeness of private healthcare.

 

[superbeagle]

Its working great in Massachusetts.

The company I have been at for the last six years has seen a minimal of 12% percent increase in our insurance rates ever year. This year was a 22% increase.

I don't know how many of you own your own business. But if your where giving a 12% increase ever year to your customers you would be out of business.

I do not want government heath care. However something needs to be done.

 

[jellyrug]

We have a winner!

Dennis, I have to confess, I don't understand much about health care here in the US. Live a healthy lifestile and stay away from Doctors.
I once took H to the emergency room in CA, being the only option due to timing, and when we got there I said: "H, we are at the wrong place, this is where all the homelss people come." She replied: "Welcome to the US!!"

Where I grew up, we had private medical care and public medical care. With good insurance you would go private, the family physicians still did house calls and the hospitals were private company owned. It was very affordable, no waiting as you make an appointment. If you could not pay, or had bad insurance, you would go to a public hospital, government run, the standard of care was fair at those, probably compared to the average over here.

 

[jellyrug]

The Earth is degenerating these days. Bribery and corruption abound.
Children no longer mind their parents, every man wants to write a book,
and it is evident that the end of the world is fast approaching.
--Assyrian Stone Tablet, c.2800 BCE

 

[BusaWhipped]

Dennis, I have to confess, I don't understand much about health care here in the US. Live a healthy lifestile and stay away from Doctors.
I once took H to the emergency room in CA, being the only option due to timing, and when we got there I said: "H, we are at the wrong place, this is where all the homelss people come." She replied: "Welcome to the US!!"

Where I grew up, we had private medical care and public medical care. With good insurance you would go private, the family physicians still did house calls and the hospitals were private company owned. It was very affordable, no waiting as you make an appointment. If you could not pay, or had bad insurance, you would go to a public hospital, government run, the standard of care was fair at those, probably compared to the average over here.

I'm not saying the health insurance industry didn't need reform. I don't think the Government taking over and replacing private insurance companies is the change we needed.

 

[skydivr]

It gets worse. To pay for this, the portion of the healthcare premium currently paid (tax free) by your employer is soon to be considered taxable income.

My employer carries a really good healthcare plan for our employees. I just had a $10K ER bill for my daughter paid IN FULL because I had hit my out-of-pocket expense limit (for which I am VERY grateful). Our monthly premium is about $1200 a month per employee, and our company pays 83% of the premium (this is pretty dang generous). That's about $12,000 a year in compensation that the employee is not current taxed as income. Since our employees don't really see the actual PAYMENT for this benefit, they don't really understand or appreciate it, UNTIL their child is sick or they have one ER visit...

Under Obamacare, this compensation is going to be put on the TAXABLE side of the equation. That means EACH employee will be showing an ADDITIONAL $12,000 per year on their W2 (the Dems will crow "see, wages are going up!", but in reality, the NET PAY each employee receives will go DOWN because of income taxes/SSA/Withholding charged on it (and higher tax bracket). The Dems answer, which I have seen actually spoken on TV but the numbnut talking heads, is that "Employers will make up the difference" like I can just snap my fingers and give each employee the raise to cover it...

Now, our employees and their families have GREAT coverage, but they WORK to EARN it. Does someone TAKING from the system have the same right as those PAYING into the system to the identical quality of healthcare? I guess it depends on if you are making the DEPOSIT or the WITHDRAWAL.

You have to look no further to the "no child left behind" laws in education to see the result. The NOBLE CAUSE was to ensure that each child got an education and wasn't tossed out of the system, but the REAL WORLD effect is that the disadvantaged children are pulling down those that are truly gifted and have involved parents, along with 15 year old junior hoodlum 5th graders who prey on their younger and weaker classmates. All we did was dumb down the system, so NOBODY can truly excel. Sounds like Communism to me....based on JEALOUS and ENVY - the entire OWS platform is based on ENVY.

 

[Gitonit!]

My employer pays for a portion of my healthcare but I still pay ~ $480 month (fam of 4) plus a $250 deductable for each or a total of $1000.
It would be nice if everything was just free...and I could receive $8200. per month to keep my standard of living...I mean going to work 5 days a week really sucks.

ETA- I just read the first page of posts and this is how absurd I thought it was.

 

[Tm@nFL]

Charlie, I've got the perfect response to the OP - dare you to post it in the FB Thread!!

I just can't help myself :stirpot: Although I can also be accused of #12

12 REASONS WHY I WILL VOTE DEMOCRAT THIS TIME 1. I will vote Democrat because I believe oil companies' profits of 4% on a gallon of gas are obscene, but my government taxing the same gallon of gas at 15% isn't. 2. I will vote Democrat because I believe my government will do a better job of spending the money I earn than I would. 3. I will vote Democrat because Freedom of Speech is fine as long as nobody is offended by it. 4. I will vote Democrat because I'm way too irresponsible to own a gun, and I know that my local police are all I need to protect me from murderers and thieves. 5. I will vote Democrat because I believe that people who can't tell us if it will rain on Friday can tell us for sure that the polar ice caps will melt away in ten years if I don't start driving a Prius. 6. I will vote Democrat because I'm not concerned about millions of babies being aborted so long as we keep all death row inmates alive. 7. I will vote Democrat because I think illegal aliens have a right to free health care, education, and Social Security benefits, and we should take away the social security from those who paid into it. 8. I will vote Democrat because I believe that businesses should not be allowed to make profits for themselves. They need to break even and give the rest away to the government for redistribution as the Democrats see fit. 9. I will vote Democrat because I believe liberal judges need to rewrite the Constitution every few days to suit some fringe kooks who would never get their agendas past the voters. 10.. I will vote Democrat because I think that it's better to pay billions to people who hate us for their oil, but not drill our own because it might upset some endangered beetle, gopher or fish. 11. I will vote Democrat because while we live in the greatest, most wonderful country in the world, I am promised "HOPE AND CHANGE". 12. I will vote Democrat because my head is so firmly planted up my ***, it's unlikely that I'll ever have another point of view.

I like the cut of your jib.. movie quote...

 

[skydivr]

I didn't know my jib was showing...excuse me ???

 

[Big Bo]

LOL, you don't...those are the kinds of people to ignore and hope to never have to sit next to on a plane. Never argue with an idiot, they'll just bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.

Bammie voters. Get it for free, contribute nothing. Raise hell, get louder, demand xxxxxx for free. The squeeky wheel gets the grease.

 

[Big Bo]

Greatest nation on earth should be able to provide free health care to all.

Nothing is free. Someone has to pay for it, or work for it.
Should everyone get free transportation? You have to get from point A to point B.
Free housing? Everyone needs a roof over their head.
Free food? Everyone has to eat.
Free clothing? Everyone needs to be clothed.
Free money? It takes money to get by.
Free internet? Everyone needs to be able to get on the web.
Free utilities? Got to keep that home warm, cool in the summer.
Free Gardening? Got to keep that yard up.
Free toilet paper? Do you want the person next you smelling like ?

 

[Big Bo]

I rather pay for some undeserving persons healthcare than drop bombs on people who dont deserve it.

Imagine the amount of money we spent in Iraq. That itself would have paid for it.

Mother in law just paid over 700 for dental work. My father in law flew to Cuba and had it done for free.
She has problems with hers he doesn't. Exact same thing done to both.


I think if we as a country and as a govt truly tried it could be done and none of us would notice any difference.

There is a reason that so many people come to America. How many people try to get into Cuba?

 

[Big Bo]

Ill decide were my money is to be spent.

After the Government allows you to have monies that the Government allowed you to earn. When you spend, you are being Governmented again.

 

[semi]

If you were a doctor and the homeless man down the street knocks on your door with a broken arm, will you chase him back out to the street?

If you found a doggie, with no collar and no identification chip lying in front of your door with a broken foot, would you put him back out to the street?

jellyrug, i think Cap did a good job answering that one...however, here are my answers...i don't help "homeless" people, some are faking it and and the rest are homeless due to their own issues and problems...that's natures way of weeding out the weak and sick...mankind would be much stronger if the non-producers were not given anything to help them survive...2 Thessalonians 3:10 states "that if any would not work, neither should he eat"

as far as the dog, it is just an animal and if it can't recover and doesn't belong to someone, i would do the humane thing and put it down...there are too many healthy, good dogs out there to be worried about an injured one

I don't know that I totally agree with this semi. I do agree it isn't the Federal Government's responsibility to pay their way in life by forcibly making me pay their bills. I believe that people with means are charitible and most want to give back to their communities. People who want to give their money to help heat homes, provide food and shelter to the homeless, help pay someone's medical bills should have the avenue to do so with low administrative costs involved. This can really only be accomplished at the local levels. To collect the money via taxation, decide how to distribute it, oversee the distribution, etc by a centralized body brings high administrative costs. It also forces people to pay for things to which they are morally opposed. Oversight is much less effective on the large scale, opening the door wider to fraud and abuse.

i don't have any issue with people being charitable at all...i have been known to help support worthy causes or help out an individual who had a momentary setback but i refuse to aid anyone who isn't trying to help themselves at the same time...if you will look back at my original statement, i said, "no one deserves anything that they didn't earn" and i stand by that...it isn't anyones "right" to take a single penny out of my pocket to support themselves

 

[Got-Busa?]

I'd love to discuss this but it will NEVER end. Someone always thinks they deserve something for nothing. How about cutting the hands outs "overseas and locally"....

I think things DO need to be changed with healthcare but making it free is NOT one of them. Saying someone (that's trying to pay) can't get coverage because of a predetermined conditions is what needs to change, or raising rates because of that, etc...

Giving it to people that don't deserve it or having the government run it is just CRAZY!!


Education is another ball of wax. You can't help people that don't want help or even want to improve themselves.


Same with welfare. Reward bad behavior.... Meet Angel Adams: Woman with 15 Kids (3 Baby Daddies)… [VIDEO]


Don't get me started on TAXES!! How about the 47% that pay ZERO contribute SOMETHING! Why raise my taxes when almost half don't pay a dime and then some even get a kickback check at the end of the year...





When I was growing up my parents said "You can have anything you want, as long as YOU pay for it!"


If I want something I work harder to get it. I don't think our government, neighbor, insurance, whatever...should be responsible for me getting something I don't earn.




A lot of people need to get back to the BASICS!!!

How about EVERYONE do a BUDGET and not spend more than you make including the GOVERNMENT! Tools and Resources - daveramsey.com

 

[dadofthree]

Nothing is free. Someone has to pay for it, or work for it.
Should everyone get free transportation? You have to get from point A to point B.
Free housing? Everyone needs a roof over their head.
Free food? Everyone has to eat.
Free clothing? Everyone needs to be clothed.
Free money? It takes money to get by.
Free internet? Everyone needs to be able to get on the web.
Free utilities? Got to keep that home warm, cool in the summer.
Free Gardening? Got to keep that yard up.
Free toilet paper? Do you want the person next you smelling like ?

Well actually from my experiences this already exist. I had a partner years ago that would get hit on now and again in these areas and she would always ask for a W-2. Funny thing is the response was always " What's a W-2 "

It's federal and state ran, but we have something called local motion in our area. It came about during the Clinton years, but basically they'll take you anywhere within the county for a buck.

 

[skydivr]

I just got the bill from my Daughter's latest colonoscopy (the 2nd she had last year), it was $12,000. PAID IN FULL by insurance that I pay for because I had hit my deductable, but that one visit was more than my entire premium last year. I can't complain because she got excellent care, but I can see how this is not sustainable, whether paid from private or public funds.

 

[jellyrug]

jellyrug, i think Cap did a good job answering that one...however, here are my answers...i don't help "homeless" people, some are faking it and and the rest are homeless due to their own issues and problems...that's natures way of weeding out the weak and sick...mankind would be much stronger if the non-producers were not given anything to help them survive...2 Thessalonians 3:10 states "that if any would not work, neither should he eat"

as far as the dog, it is just an animal and if it can't recover and doesn't belong to someone, i would do the humane thing and put it down...there are too many healthy, good dogs out there to be worried about an injured one



i don't have any issue with people being charitable at all...i have been known to help support worthy causes or help out an individual who had a momentary setback but i refuse to aid anyone who isn't trying to help themselves at the same time...if you will look back at my original statement, i said, "no one deserves anything that they didn't earn" and i stand by that...it isn't anyones "right" to take a single penny out of my pocket to support themselves

Just asking questions, did not state an opinion, but in my case this is what I would do.

1.) Homeless man knocks on my door with broken arm.

I would not put him back on the street, would find him the help he needs, starting with a 911 call.

2.) Doggie with a broken foot in front of my door.

Would make sure doggie is comfortable and contact an animal shelter for advice and probably take him there. What happens after that is not my decision.

 

[RYC1966]

Some of the regular tests...such as annual physical / aged based tests for male / female...I have annual tests since age 18 (the same as a 40yr male)...under the proposed they would start some exam procedurs way later in life. For female the same...routine exams would be way later in life...not catch the issue during puberity / 30 yr old....start checking after 45 yrs old..no sooner. The people that pay the most are the ones that can afford it...pick up the tab for over usage / bad lifestyle individuals in your community. And the scams...double billing, identity theft and running up a claim...it is a real problem that under the spot light.