Heres a new one.
- Thread starter TallTom
- Start date
Warrior58d
Registered
Little late with sounding off on this but in Colorado there is no helmet requirement but you have to wear eye protection. I am also from Florida and know what a hot topic it is. I however think that even though the cop was a bit of an ass he was 100% right and just trying to do an already hard job. He did cut you some slack so cut some back.
(Ken02busa @ Apr. 07 2007,11) I am from Alberta, and no one has answered my question yet- why do you have to carry while on the bike? Are you in a place with drive-by's, or do guys try to pull you off the bike, or do you go target shooting to take a break, or shoot gophers while riding, (actually that would be cool)..............
If you and your wife are on the bikes, and stop for a picnic lunch in a nice field in the country. Just when you get ready to take a bite of the chicken you see a coyote eying you or your food. I would rather carry a gun and not need it, than need it and not have it. They majority of the states are now shall issue, so alot of people do carry legally, just for the heck of it.
nerfboy
Registered
This thread amazes me, and the fact so many think so little of eye protection.
20 years ago, before WA had a helmet law and before I was smart enough to know better or had heard the term squid. I used to do summer runs with no shirt, shoes or helmet. Just a pair of shorts and sunglasses. Even then, when I believed I was indestructible, I still never rode without eye protection.
Oh in WA now and before the helmet law eye protection has always been required, even on my Jeep, when I drop the windshield.
As for carrying. Lose the laser. Tricking out the gun you carry is only gonna cause you grief, as it did here. If you ever have to use it, case history shows the courts treat a stock gun different then a modified one. Right or wrong the courts will paint you as an extremistif you carry a modified gun.
20 years ago, before WA had a helmet law and before I was smart enough to know better or had heard the term squid. I used to do summer runs with no shirt, shoes or helmet. Just a pair of shorts and sunglasses. Even then, when I believed I was indestructible, I still never rode without eye protection.
Oh in WA now and before the helmet law eye protection has always been required, even on my Jeep, when I drop the windshield.
As for carrying. Lose the laser. Tricking out the gun you carry is only gonna cause you grief, as it did here. If you ever have to use it, case history shows the courts treat a stock gun different then a modified one. Right or wrong the courts will paint you as an extremistif you carry a modified gun.
Being a LEO myself I have a few pionts to make.
1) The Leo might have been looking for someone that looked like you or your bike. Never know for what.
2)He has the right, upheld by the supreme court numerous times, to conduct the stop in a manner that he thinks is safe for him.
3)As Ibified said a fire arm will ALWAYS make the stop more tense. I know you watch the news!
4) I have a hard time believing that you honestly believe that your helmet without the shield will do anything for your eyes. As for only travelling 40mph I have gotten knats in my eyes at lower speeds and they still hurt, and I can't see very well. At 40 the wind will make your eyes water. If you can't see, you hit things.
5)The guy might have been stern but it is not his job to be your friend. His number one job is to go home every night. He does not know you or your intentions.
6) ATTITUDE IS EVERYTHING
7) I swear I am not trying to bust your chops but if more people would try to put them selfs in our place, instead of just trying to be right, I think most Cop-Citizen contacts would be alot less stressful to both.
1) The Leo might have been looking for someone that looked like you or your bike. Never know for what.
2)He has the right, upheld by the supreme court numerous times, to conduct the stop in a manner that he thinks is safe for him.
3)As Ibified said a fire arm will ALWAYS make the stop more tense. I know you watch the news!
4) I have a hard time believing that you honestly believe that your helmet without the shield will do anything for your eyes. As for only travelling 40mph I have gotten knats in my eyes at lower speeds and they still hurt, and I can't see very well. At 40 the wind will make your eyes water. If you can't see, you hit things.
5)The guy might have been stern but it is not his job to be your friend. His number one job is to go home every night. He does not know you or your intentions.
6) ATTITUDE IS EVERYTHING
7) I swear I am not trying to bust your chops but if more people would try to put them selfs in our place, instead of just trying to be right, I think most Cop-Citizen contacts would be alot less stressful to both.
I want to respond to Spike:
I am going to have to chime in and agree %110 on this one. I trust people who carry legally more than I trust people who do not. I wonder why this police officer felt different, I thought that was natural?
Can anyone in Law Enforcement give any insight on this?
The carry permit ONLY means that you don't have a criminal record. AS FAR AS ANYONE KNOWS. Your own parents don't know every thing that you have done. We are not mind readers.
Also there are fifty states and who know how many countys, cities, ect that have different formats for the permits. It is imposible to know if a permit is legit. With todays printers that can duplicate anything from a permit to a passport, do you think there might be a few fakes?
I don't know of any way to verify a permit with out going to the issuing county judge to ask if they issued it.
Having a permit only "suggests" to the officer that you MIGHT be legit. It does not implie that you are a trustworthy person.
Most criminals that don't obey the big laws don't obey the little laws either. This is how we catch MOST of the offenders.
I am going to have to chime in and agree %110 on this one. I trust people who carry legally more than I trust people who do not. I wonder why this police officer felt different, I thought that was natural?
Can anyone in Law Enforcement give any insight on this?
The carry permit ONLY means that you don't have a criminal record. AS FAR AS ANYONE KNOWS. Your own parents don't know every thing that you have done. We are not mind readers.
Also there are fifty states and who know how many countys, cities, ect that have different formats for the permits. It is imposible to know if a permit is legit. With todays printers that can duplicate anything from a permit to a passport, do you think there might be a few fakes?
I don't know of any way to verify a permit with out going to the issuing county judge to ask if they issued it.
Having a permit only "suggests" to the officer that you MIGHT be legit. It does not implie that you are a trustworthy person.
Most criminals that don't obey the big laws don't obey the little laws either. This is how we catch MOST of the offenders.
race24x
Registered
I guess I am just tired of our government wasting our tax money to make laws to preotect us from us. While the real criminals get lawyers get off or get next to no jail time. It has turned into a money making business. If they where serious they would limit all cars to 75 (the max speed limit it any state as far as I know) and lay off half of the police force that does nothing but run the roads and run radar all day. They wouldnt be making the state all of that money now would they. Then maybe the ones left could get actually work on solving real crimes. Dont get me worng I work with the policve on a daily basis but it is such a waste of tax payers money to drive around all day patrolling out in nowhereville Maine with a population of 500.
Hey, I never really noticed how serious they are about the eye protection laws until I was riding the Virginia Beach strip last summer in 98 degree heat, at a stop light, had my visor up to get some air and a cop on a bicycle rolled up to me and practically yelled at me for not having sunglasses on. I just looked at her in amazement, wanting to roll enough to get some air moving in that hot helmet and hoping I could keep the visor up at least until I got some speed, but she insisted I put the visor down or get some sunglasses on. I have no doubt she would have ticketed me had I ignored her request...
It's frustrating for certain that the 'no helmet' laws conflict so much with "well, you at least need that $2 pair of sunglasses", but the law is the law...not much you can do to fight it...
Funny how you questioned his every move and had him thinking though...I recall a post you made about a ticket in the FL Keys and how you were very methodical...I can't think that quickly on my feet and I go from zero to pissed too quickly
It's frustrating for certain that the 'no helmet' laws conflict so much with "well, you at least need that $2 pair of sunglasses", but the law is the law...not much you can do to fight it...
Funny how you questioned his every move and had him thinking though...I recall a post you made about a ticket in the FL Keys and how you were very methodical...I can't think that quickly on my feet and I go from zero to pissed too quickly
TallTom
Registered
Ok my new faceshiled arrived and is on my helmet again. Let me clarify that I have never been in this situation where my helmet was missing its shield and I rode shieldless. I see all the merits of eye protection pointed out. It wasn't and isn't a normal situation I was in at the time. I have ridden with my shield up at times, never had any LEO issues. The validity of no helmets required but eye protection is still sort of "interesting" but it is what it is. I clearly see now I was in violation of a statute for eye protection. Ignorance is no defense.
The cop could have been much more proactive of the notion that I clearly showed I was making every attempt to act and show responsibility by having everything in order and openly being cooperative. I am legally operating a motorcycle, have it fully licensed and insured, no tickets, wearing a helmet even when not required, went through the steps of legally carrying a firearm. I wonder if they treat the bad guys any worse?
I have talked to quite a few bikers over the roads here at events. There is a pretty large number that don't have motorcycle endorsements on thier driver license. They have been riding for years and they simply don't bother, don't care or don't know. That is a 3rd degree felony here in Florida. Maybe this is what they hope to find when they pull us over. Lots of potential for seizure and revenues from a felony stop.
Everyone has made valid points on the eye protection aspects of this. Like I said it isn't the norm for me. One of my other biking buddies got cited in Daytona for having his visor tilted too far up. It just seems a little to ummm harsh to use these as examples for pullover hassles. Doesn't make anyone feel real warm and fuzzy at the LEO community when they look so hard for a reason.
The cop could have been much more proactive of the notion that I clearly showed I was making every attempt to act and show responsibility by having everything in order and openly being cooperative. I am legally operating a motorcycle, have it fully licensed and insured, no tickets, wearing a helmet even when not required, went through the steps of legally carrying a firearm. I wonder if they treat the bad guys any worse?
I have talked to quite a few bikers over the roads here at events. There is a pretty large number that don't have motorcycle endorsements on thier driver license. They have been riding for years and they simply don't bother, don't care or don't know. That is a 3rd degree felony here in Florida. Maybe this is what they hope to find when they pull us over. Lots of potential for seizure and revenues from a felony stop.
Everyone has made valid points on the eye protection aspects of this. Like I said it isn't the norm for me. One of my other biking buddies got cited in Daytona for having his visor tilted too far up. It just seems a little to ummm harsh to use these as examples for pullover hassles. Doesn't make anyone feel real warm and fuzzy at the LEO community when they look so hard for a reason.
I think you wouldn't have minded so much had this occurred in a state with the helmet laws in place...it's frustrating to be hassled about something that seems relatively trivial when you were riding with guys not wearing lids at all...
It's the proverbial sea of red tape and BS, but since it's on the books and against the law, what can you do?
It's the proverbial sea of red tape and BS, but since it's on the books and against the law, what can you do?
i can't even ride one mile without eye protection, i think you need that to see properly, i'am surprised he didn't take your gun for a month or so to check it out for a stolen weapon,...... when you got the gun back in your hands, should have put the laser on his forhead for a couple seconds ........he he he he
race24x
Registered
That may get you in trouble but I think what we could use is a good ole blanket party for people to help them adjust to real life. Hey if your State allows the idiots in charge to pass a law like sunglasses or something for riders you have to abide by it or change it start an impeachment vote for all of your legistator/nazis. If you where legally carrying a firearm I would insist that you may need to protect yourself from an over zealous police officer like the ones you see on TV all the time. Then tell him you are carrying legally there is nothing illegal about adding the laser if he has no other legal reason to hold your weapon to return it before you call a lcivil libertys lawyer and have him server with harrassment papers
Same here in Texas guys ride w/o helmet all the time but you have to have eye protection. I was stationed in VA and was riding to VA Beach Via Shore Drive with a buddy of mine we were doing the speed limit which was posted 55 MPH we were in the middle of a sweeping turn when I was hit in the face sheild of my full face helmet by a dove. I was really glad that day that I was wearing a helmet because if I was not I might have lost not one but maybe both eyes and never been able to ride again. Also the Leo was in his full right he does not know you when he pulls you over and also being a fellow that has his conceal carry Lic. I just let them do what they have to do so I can get on my way. personally I really don't think he was trying to keep your weapon, he just want to hold on to it to ensure you weren't going to go in the store and wait for him to leave without buying that eye protection like some young punks would do. Coming from a family that is Police officer oriented they are just trying to keep you and others safe.
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