Help, slow cranking, hard start, possible drain on battery

[stepaukob]

Hey guys,
It's been awhile since I've been on here.

PLEASE, I need some help.

I have an '02 Busa with starting problems:
The bike turns over slowly even with a new battery but will generally start with the new battery although a bit slower crank than one would expect.
The battery will show 13.8 volts when idling, +14 volts when giving throttle.
12.8 v after initial shutdown then settles around 12.5 v. Bike will start again better but after a few days of not riding loses cranking power.
Overall the bike never really spins over quickly so it's difficult to start.
Battery Tender light is green but bike will not turn over quickly. Tender goes from blinking red to green fairly quickly saying the battery is charged.

I've tried a few different batteries but ultimately none will last even when I've used the Tender on them.
When jumped from a car, the bike will spin quickly and fire right up (maybe I am killing the batteries but I shouldn't need to jump in the first place).
I've tried a few different batteries with initial starting "ok" but still not cranking quickly.
13.8 volts when idling.
12.8 after initial shut off and will settle around 12.5 (haven't checked this after sitting for more that an hour).
9 Volts when cranking but a drop off will occur because bike has a hard time starting.

There was another post where someone had a similar issue.

https://www.hayabusa.org/forum/general-bike-related-topics/128955-slow-crank-no-start.html
The response was this:

Another thing that folks rarely check is resistance through the ground system. A bad negative ground (where does it ground on the busa, on the engine? on the frame?) will show you good voltage readings, but offers resistance and eats up voltage (potential) when high current for the starter is flowing. To check this, put a volt meter between the negative terminal of the battery and someplace on the engine. You won't read any voltage with the key on but not running or the engine running, but you will see a voltage when the starter is cranking (high current through the resistance of the ground strap and it's connections at both battery and the frame or engine).

I tried the above. Having a volt meter with one lead on the Neg terminal and the other lead on the frame is producing 0.5 volts while cranking. That doesn't seem to be a big enough draw to cause slow cranking, or does it?


Someone else mentioned there might be a draw on the battery running a test light from (+) terminal of battery to the disconnected (-) terminal's wire to see if there is a draw.

When I place to + lead of ohmmeter to + side of battery it shows infinite resistance (a good thing). But when I reverse the leads (+ side of ohmmeter to neg terminal) I see a draw there is a s shown in the attached pic. Is this normal?

I have researched this for quite awhile but have not been able to find a solution. Someone also mentioned beefing up the power wires coming off of the battery worked for him but no factory motorcycle should need this.

Maybe someone can tell me more voltage or resistance values. I don't feel like putting a new battery in until I can fix the problem otherwise I'll kill it. I may also post on other forums if I can't figure it out here. Thanks for any help.

 

[card16969]

disconnect the negative terminal both top and bottom and check the resistance in the cable and if its more than .2 replace it.. if not take some fine sand paper and clean both ends of the connector and the mounting points and check to see how clean the mounting bolt is

 

[card16969]

btw wash rinse and repeat for the positive terminal cable

 

[Blanca BusaLess]

What if any accessories do you have that may be drawing that ?

 

[stepaukob]

disconnect the negative terminal both top and bottom and check the resistance in the cable and if its more than .2 replace it.. if not take some fine sand paper and clean both ends of the connector and the mounting points and check to see how clean the mounting bolt is

Where is the end of the neg terminal to. Is it on the frame?

I believe the battery is toast again. When I shut down it's at 12.8v. 8 hours later I'm at 12.4v. This battery is less than a year old. Even when I put in the new battery it never really cranked over that well.

What if any accessories do you have that may be drawing that ?

I have a PCII and the stock clock. Nothing of significance drawing from of it that I know of.

 

[The Big Red One]

Where is the end of the neg terminal to. Is it on the frame?

I believe the battery is toast again. When I shut down it's at 12.8v. 8 hours later I'm at 12.4v. This battery is less than a year old. Even when I put in the new battery it never really cranked over that well.



I have a PCII and the stock clock. Nothing of significance drawing from of it that I know of.

If your battery tender is working properly, and you hook it up every time you park the bike there's no way you could be killing batteries that quick, especially multiple batteries. Getting 1 bad battery is possible, getting multiple in a row is pretty unlikely. And your bike is charging according to your tests. It sounds to me like you have a starter dying. Thats why a car battery and big amps spin it over good but normal bike amperage won't. The early busa's had starter issues....a common upgrade was to go with an 03 and up starter set-up. Be careful, if your starter kicks back it'll break the case and cost a lot more to fix. Its just going to slowly grind down till it strands you one day. If you can pull your starter off and get it tested thats what I would do next

And always keep your bike plugged into the tender when not riding, weak batteries cause kick-back on the early busa's and lead to cases breaking. Plus my 04 busa and 06 14 are both still on their original batteres because they're always on tenders when not being ridden. Good luck and let us know how it goes

 

[stepaukob]

I upgraded the whole starter setup shortly after I bought the bike.

Being new to the bike I didn't realize it was turning over slowly even with a new battery. It would turn over enough to start the bike with the new battery but never really spun like it should. This was my first Hayabusa and just they thought turned over slowly.

I think the extra cranking is killing the batteries.

Here's a video of someone having a similiar problem. Mine isn't as bad as his but spins slowly enough to cause starting issues. Look at the 22 sec mark

Now here's the interesting part. The video has someone with an '02. Another poster here was having the same problem also with an '02. And mine is an '02.

The poster here ended up changing his power wire to 4 gauge wire and had success with it, saying it resulted in spinning twice as fast. I am going to try this first. I should have checked my PM prior to posting, my bad. He even did a write up on it on this forum.

https://www.hayabusa.org/forum/electrical-mods/133945-rewiring-battery-starter.html#post2459541

I'll try the a heavier guage wire to see if this helps spin the bike quicker. If I can get the bike to spin quicker I'm sure it will result in quicker starts, less strain on the battery, and hopefully that will solve the issue.

Hopefully this does the trick. If not I'll be back here asking for more suggestions. Thanks you guys for responding

 

[stepaukob]

Pulled the positive and negative wires.

I think I found a good replacement wire and ends at Home Dep@t. Will try to make and install tomorrow after work.

Original wires looked good and the terminal ends seemed ok also so this may not be the fix.

 

[card16969]

Pulled the positive and negative wires.

I think I found a good replacement wire and ends at Home Dep@t. Will try to make and install tomorrow after work.

Original wires looked good and the terminal ends seemed ok also so this may not be the fix.

i wouldnt replace with home wire its heavier gauge strands and less strands, the more strands you have the more transfer you have the better you are thats where dc and 110 differ

 

[stepaukob]

i wouldnt replace with home wire its heavier gauge strands and less strands, the more strands you have the more transfer you have the better you are thats where dc and 110 differ

Home wires? Not sure what you mean.

 

[stepaukob]

Upgraded wires to 4 gauge. No difference. I will buy another battery and will post a video. Maybe someone can figure this out because it's annoying and costly.

 

[stepaukob]

The bike takes too many spins to start. Even when jumping from a car it spins faster but takes at least 5 seconds to fire and then it usually doesn't start. I'll choke (fast idle) a bit and if I do it too much it will backfire. Am I getting too much fuel or too rich?

I have a Power Commander, should I disconnect and try it?

I started it today and rode it around the parking lot. A lot of fuel was being burned, it was smoking of bit and it smelled like fuel. Now I'm wondering if it's dumping too much fuel at start up? Like I said, it take so many turns to start the bike that I'm killing batteries.

 

[stepaukob]

Problem was with PCII (I think). I found an incorrect reading for the ckp at the ecm. After totally removing PCII I now have correct fuel pressure when starter button is engaged.

 

[mrriverajr]

The Power commander was causing this issue? Has it happened again since you removed it?

 

[Hellfire666]

Yes that would be nice to know, i´m all over the place about this problem. I took the regulator off yesterday to test it, no idea if it can be done with any standard multimeter but the readings were insane. Put it back yesterday and went to work by car.

Unplugged the regulator connector apart again today for some reason, pretty hard to unplug it, plugged it back in and it cranks faster than ever, last three attempts yesterday it stopped cranking, then started and reset the clock all three times. Now it´s cranking and starts up real fast even though the voltage on the battery is slightly lower ?! Before i took it apart the voltage when cranking took a dive to 6.77 volts and after i unplugged/plugged it back in it stays over 10 volts even after repeated startups.

 

[mrriverajr]

Problem was with PCII (I think). I found an incorrect reading for the ckp at the ecm. After totally removing PCII I now have correct fuel pressure when starter button is engaged.

The Power commander was causing this issue? Has it happened again since you removed it?

 

[stepaukob]

It was the PCIII all along. I thought I had eliminated that a long time ago but I hadn't. It would have saved me a lot of frustration had I just removed it.